HONEYMOON IN VEGAS struggling on Broadway- Page 10

[RippedMan]

Posted: 2/7/15 at 12:50am

Agreed. I don't think they're selling a bad product. I think it's a fine show. It's not great. It's not imaginative, and it's not the best production the show will have, but it's worth a listen/watch. I think it just has no presence. I still don't get why they aren't on the View or Today Show singing the title song.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/7/15 at 12:44pm

But they don't even have a presence in Times Square with a billboard

I think that is the actual problem regarding visibility, not the location. Plenty of marquees are not visible from 7th, but if there are no billboards, posters, taxi ads or commercials, you're just relying on your marquee, word of mouth, or show listings.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 2/7/15 at 1:07pm

I'd argue too against the claim that 41st Street gets no foot traffic. It's true that the Nederlander had a huge problem in the 70s, 80s and part of the 90s, when it was surrounded by porn stores, SRO hotels, 42nd Street was a war zone and it was the only Broadway theatre below 44th Street. At that time, it was a theatre of last resort, the place you went if you could get no other better booking.

Now that it shares the block with The New York Times and the Times Center, a New York Sports Club, a Wolfgang Puck restaurant, the Hilton Times Square, and half of the audience of Aladdin emptying out onto 41st Street and the revitalized Times Square subway hub, it's nowhere near as isolated as it once was. The street is swarming too at 5:00 PM every night with people making their way to the Port Authority. It has more foot traffic than the streets with theatres in the upper 40s and lower 50s, or any of the east of Broadway theatres.

That theatre now has more people passing it than at any point in its recent history. So, to blame Honeymoon's struggles on the Nederlander seems misguided to me.

Updated On: 2/7/15 at 01:07 PM

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 2/7/15 at 1:59pm

I don't think it helps that the first-time lead producer (also involved in Enron and Superior Donuts) seems to be ineffectual and that her GM is doubling as the second lead producer. They're clearly in over their heads. By all accounts audiences are enjoying the show and yet word of mouth doesn't seem to have been strong enough to get butts in the seats over the past three months, which is a conundrum. I don't believe that the theater's location is a factor but certainly the way it has been advertised and positioned, or not, is.

[Jersey Girl2]

Posted: 2/8/15 at 3:22pm

Misogynistic- Seriously?
It's entertainment, at least that's why I go.
Great songs, great music, a few laughs- I'm good.
& what a wonderful orchestra.
Like goldenboy said >>>If you haven't gone I urge you to go because this is one darn shame that its not selling.

[Kad]

Posted: 2/8/15 at 6:56pm

"It's entertainment!" is a lousy excuse for giving things a pass or dismissing the concerns of people. And with this show, it's not one or two people who find the material kind of gross.

It's dated in all the worst ways. But goldenboy longs for a simpler time when women were portrayed as pretty pieces of property, so whatever.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/8/15 at 7:09pm

He also seems to think that the characters in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf and Streetcar are presented as role models.

[goldenboy]

Posted: 2/8/15 at 10:53pm

No I just think to homogenize characters in theatre will make the world and theatre a dull place.

Commedia De' Arte has stock characters. Moliere wrote with stock characters. Shakespeare has stock characters.The Realists wrote about people with great character flaws. To make the theatre bereft of character and even archetypes is to deny our theatrical heritage.

Didn't we learn anything from Avenue Q? "Ethnic jokes may be uncouth,: "But you laugh because they're based on truth!" Everyone's a little bit racist."

There are dumb blondes; there are greedy people; there are people who want to get married. These are facts of life.

Now there is new stereoptype; the theatregoer
who is so sensitive , that everything they see is sexist, racist or misognist. This new stereotype urks the **** out of me.

[Kad]

Posted: 2/8/15 at 11:44pm

Homogenize the characters into what? NO one has advocated getting rid of archetype or tropes. Or interesting chatacyees. It's about realizing, "hey, maybe we should stop relying on tropes that belittle numerous groups of people, espouse outdated and bad ideas, and are somehow the prevailing way of depicting people."

Hell, you can even ENJOY Honeymoon or whatever else, however problematic people may find the material. But your enjoyment of something doesn't diminish or eliminate the problematic elements.

"This is the way it's been done for so long and I like it that way," ain't a good reason to keep doing something. Neither is, "well it doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you." There's a ****ty stenotype for you: the person who finds it inconvenient to acknowledge someone's offense as being legitimate. Urksome indeed.

Updated On: 2/8/15 at 11:44 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/8/15 at 11:59pm

[goldenboy]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:06am

If the offenses were legitimate--I would be right behind you. Finding Honeymoon in Vegas racist or sexist is ridiculous. Honeymoon is great fun and a great musical.
Hope it finds its audience.

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:09am

People are still having the "offensive" debate? Good Lord. Were the PC police in this much of a fuss over The Book of Mormon?

[newintown]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:14am

There's an enormous difference (that yet seems to be invisible to some) between using inflammatory humor in an intelligent (ironic) way, and using it in a lowbrow, unironic and thoughtless way.

To me, Mormon is an excellent example of the former, while Honeymoon typifies the latter.

[goldenboy]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:14am

Hasa Diga Polically Correct Police

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:17am

Bitches be humorless, amirite

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:21am

What phrase from the '90s continues to endure and grate as much as "politically correct"? Not much. Do you all still say "information superhighway"?

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:33am

People who continue to find offense in humor deserve to have the term politically correct thrown at their feet.

[newintown]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:40am

"Politically correct" is a phrase for the slow and antique, like "global warming" - easy to blurt, and devoid of meaning. You'd be better off with "23 skidoo."

[Pootie2]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:43am

I miss blackface too, LYLS3637.

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:46am

I went to see the show on Saturday, the orchestra and the sets were excellent, but unfortunately, the musical doesn't have a "heart" unlike "On the Town" and other shows, and people can't connect to such a cheese story. I thought the 3 main roles were totally miscast. Tony Danza can't sing and Rob's voice is not that great. So many great pieces out there, let's revive "Aspects of Love", "Kiss of the Spider Woman", "The Rink" or something else...there is good stuff out there...

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:53am

Wow Pootie. You can't be serious.

Intent and context matter. When Ann Coulter made a "joke" and called Al Gore a "fag," that's malicious. Blackface in the early 20th Century was malicious, but really wasn't when All in the Family did it in 1975. The fact that you even brought it up during a discussion of this show in particular is making Voltaire roll over in his grave.

Updated On: 2/9/15 at 11:53 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:57am

People who seem to think it's cool to rely on outdated archetypes for a cheap source of humor or an easy way to come up with a plot deserve to be called out on it. It's easy humor. It's cheap humor. And in the case of Honeymoon, it's not even GOOD humor. It doesn't even get a pass I would give to a well-constructed, stock character-laden farce, like One Man, Two Guvnors (to date one of the funniest things I've seen in any medium).

Hell, even in commedia dell'arte, the female characters are more progressive than in Honeymoon. They at least give as good as they get from the men. I don't see Comedy of Errors getting slagged much, either.

Newintown is totally right. Book of Mormon is able to subvert and do something creative with how it uses stock characters and plot tropes. Honeymoon just plops down the plot of its movie source (which was already at least two decades out of step with society when it debuted) and expects you to eat it up.

There's plenty- scores and scores- of good comedies in all mediums that use stock characters in smart, funny, modern ways. But we still live in a world in which it's *progressive* and *remarkably uncommon* to have two women in a scene talking about something other than a man. In which it's progressive and uncommon to have two female characters just being friends, and not romantic rivals or bitchy enemies. In which it's progressive and uncommon to have the main character be a woman of color.

But, fortunately, the tide is slowly turning, thank god. But not without plenty of people whining about "political correctness" and "humorlessness" and "I'm tired of things being called sexist," as if most entertainment hadn't been tailored to the taste of one demographic for decades.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 12:28pm

^Agree with Kad.

Will add on to say that my comment that other people and I had commented in the other thread on not liking the show because of its egregious misogyny was in response to the comments here to the effect of not being able to imagine any possible reason why people were not flocking to this show. The information was offered as an insight in response to the comments of not being able to imagine why others don't like the show. It was then met with a command from the same person who couldn't understand why others don't like the show to stop talking about the reasons why. It all comes across very much like trying to have a conversation with a child who asks a question and then jams their fingers in their ears and sings 'la la la i'm not listening' while someone is answering their question.

There is also a big distinction to be made between shows that have sexist characters and lines and are set in a different time when sexist practices were more common, but that don't have a sexist underlying message, vs. a show set in the present day that acts like bartering a person as chattel is completely normal and the chattel-person so bartered should of course go back to the barterer as if nothing egregious had just happened. Some people have no problem with that and can enjoy the putative 'entertainment' (although that too, as others have pointed out, was severely lacking). Others find it disgusting enough to prevent them from going back to see it again or from recommending it to their friends planning Broadway trips who ask for recommendations on which shows to see, and instead recommend the excellent shows that they have seen and suggesting skipping Honeymoon. Goldenboy, feel free to repeat your comment that you simply can't imagine why people don't like it if you find it difficult to imagine that others may have different opinions than your own. Your random commands issued to strangers to stop answering your questions will continue to be ignored.

Updated On: 2/9/15 at 12:28 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 12:43pm

Not only does she go back to her fiance, she actually, literally says: "Look at me, I've been learning some lessons [...]But no matter what we screw up next, I'm never gonna walk away again."

[goldenboy]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 12:46pm

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
you sure know how to put someone to sleep.