Hamilton Cancellation Line- Page 89

[Sunshine31]

Posted: 5/25/16 at 11:36pm

Seen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/imstephwalsh/status/735548297247612932

https://mobile.twitter.com/NYlife1022/status/735425480497717249

Yikes! 

[happydude]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 12:07am

jesskee said: "Long time lurker, first time poster after my line waiting experience yesterday. As a professional line sitter (I meant to quote happydude here, but am technologically inept), I feel like your opinions on how the line should be set up are irrelevant because you have nothing at stake here. Why should there be hope for newcomers to a line when people have already been waiting for over 24 hours and are willing to wait for longer? It mostly screws those people over who don't have a friend or significant other who can wait in both lines. 

I waited for Tuesday's show and was very lucky to get in. What's messed up about the new rule is that line sitters are forced to go in to see a show that they don't even want to see.The linesitters who were sitting with us were very friendly and nice- they were looking for premiums, but none came out for our day. If they got those, they would have bought them and left the line to free up chances for others. I appreciated their perspective on how the line works and our odds, etc. Both guys expressed that they were just there to do their job and wanted to go home ASAP and had no interest in seeing the show. They wanted to pair their clients with the next set of people in line, so they could effectively do their jobs and pass their tickets on to other people who really wanted to get in, but the boss wouldn't allow that to happen. So they both were forced to sit through a show they didn't want to see, and I heard that one of them left 15 minutes into Act I. So maybe I have more of a problem with the new linesitting system than the linesitters themselves. It seems a bit wacky to me that they wouldn't be allowed to pass their tickets off to the next people waiting in line after they've done their job. Just my opinion. I really would've liked to have seen two more people behind me who actually cared about seeing the show get in. At least the current system does cut down on the number of linesitters overall, giving us common folk who can't afford such luxuries more of a chance if we're willing to be on line for 24+ hours. 

 

"Honestly, before the new cancellation line policies, I don't see how line sitters were ever hurting anyone. That's all I read for months on end is that line sitters were monopolizing the lines, forcing long waits. But, now you have people devising ways to stay on line indefinitely; some people are not even waiting at all, but playing the "buddy" (if you say so lol) system. And  for all that effort of complaining and harassing management, some patrons back  to waiting 50 hours plus again. Incredible! The rule of thumb has ALWAYS been: whoever waits the longest gets the worm. It was always that way, but people wanted to make it like the evil line sitters were working with a special, mysterious formula. No, line sitters just waited longer. No secret voo doo. 

My stake? Money of course. I'm not ashamed to say that. There is nothing illegal about line sitting. Unlike scalpers, line sitters perform an actual service. Some line sitters have chosen to play by the rules and are now getting extra tickets for themselves that could have gone to patrons, but patrons compromised their business so they must do what they must do. The line sitters didn't change the rules. Management, under the duress from patrons who felt they didn't get a fair shake at getting tickets, did.

 

 

Updated On: 5/26/16 at 12:07 AM

[gatorgirl2]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 12:19am

happydude I don't know why you keep posting when we all know you are a professional line sitter and are just looking out for yourself. I'd rather pay a fan the professional line sitting fee than pay you to sit for me because at least the fan wants to see the show too and I'm helping someone out. I don't have that kind of money but if I had those two options I would pick the fan any day. 

The line is long not because of the rule changes but like everyone has said- school is out, Tonys, OBC leaving soon. Perfect storm. Last week the wait wasn't terribly long but seems like summer has caught up with the line. Maybe it will die down a little next week when it isn't near a holiday weekend. Who knows. 

[happydude]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 12:30am

gatorgirl2 said: "happydude I don't know why you keep posting when we all know you are a professional line sitter and are just looking out for yourself. I'd rather pay a fan the professional line sitting fee than pay you to sit for me because at least the fan wants to see the show too and I'm helping someone out. I don't have that kind of money but if I had those two options I would pick the fan any day. 

The line is long not because of the rule changes but like everyone has said- school is out, Tonys, OBC leaving soon. Perfect storm. Last week the wait wasn't terribly long but seems like summer has caught up with the line. Maybe it will die down a little next week when it isn't near a holiday weekend. Who knows. 

 

"Regardless of the reasons you are waiting, YOU ARE STILL WAITING. You are getting crafty and finding ways to win and that's commendable. I'm only saying, what many of you guys are doing now, you should've been doing from jump instead of complaining. Blaming line sitters just brought on an extra hurdle. 

No, I don't want your  business gatorgirl. If you can't afford me, you can't afford me. Won't hold it against ya. However, if you patrons like yourself (not meaning you), have something to say that affects my business, then I'm going to give my two sense. Also, it's a bit of cutting off your nose to smite your face. I don't see where ANYONE is winning in this situation. 

 

[casedilla2]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 12:39am

@happydude, how can you honestly say that you don't see how "anyone" is winning in this situation, when most everyone is (except line sitters, that is)? Yes, the line is a lot longer now, but that would've happened with or without the policy change by the theater. As it stands now, fans who are willing to wait the longest are getting to see the show, and are even getting their tickets paid for by other fans who want to see the show. This means fans are getting almost all the tickets, as opposed to line sitters who don't even want to see the show - and those who are willing to pay a line sitter are actually getting the tickets cheaper than a line sitter would cost by covering the cost of the tickets for the fans waiting.

I understand the change in policy has caused your business (and those of other line sitters) to take a hit, and I feel bad for you for the sudden change, as I have nothing against line sitters as long as they fit within the rules. But the reality is that there are more inexpensive and efficient options at this point, with how much the line sitter fees typically are (plus the cost of tickets on top of that).

[jesskee]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:03am

happydude said: 
"Honestly, before the new cancellation line policies, I don't see how line sitters were ever hurting anyone. That's all I read for months on end is that line sitters were monopolizing the lines, forcing long waits. But, now you have people devising ways to stay on line indefinitely; some people are not even waiting at all, but playing the "buddy" (if you say so lol) system. And  for all that effort of complaining and harassing management, some patrons back  to waiting 50 hours plus again. Incredible! The rule of thumb has ALWAYS been: whoever waits the longest gets the worm. It was always that way, but people wanted to make it like the evil line sitters were working with a special, mysterious formula. No, line sitters just waited longer. No secret voo doo. 

My stake? Money of course. I'm not ashamed to say that. There is nothing illegal about line sitting. Unlike scalpers, line sitters perform an actual service. Some line sitters have chosen to play by the rules and are now getting extra tickets for themselves that could have gone to patrons, but patrons compromised their business so they must do what they must do. The line sitters didn't change the rules. Management, under the duress from patrons who felt they didn't get a fair shake at getting tickets, did." 

 

If you read my post again you should take notice... not a problem (as much) with the linesitters as with the policy that now they are forced to go sit in a theater for a show that they don't want to see while there are 50+ who are dying outside for their spots. But under the old policy you would just be able to have more professional linesitters sitting in line who would be doing a service for people who actually want to see the show. These professionals did not want to be in the theater that night after a nearly 30 hour wait and they were seemingly nice enough dudes.

It seems like it comes down to very convenient logic on your part. You say that the ones who wait the longest get the worm. Unless that of course means that people are waiting multiple nights in a row, in which case, your logic of starting an entirely new line should be enforced. The buddy system isn't cheating the system. I'm eligible for two tickets like any linesitter, as is my buddy. It's just about strategy and optimizing our chances of getting in. I was grateful my buddy.went to wait for the next day's line. If people are upset about a buddy system, they just need to eliminate the chance for having people wait for two tickets. One ticket per person, no exceptions. But then that would completely eliminate your opportunity for business, so what can you do? .  . 

 Also if you're motivated by the money aspect, I've read that the linesitters get paid for their time whether or not they end up getting tickets for their clients. But they offer their service again to those clients at a discount price for a future show. So if you don't get tickets for your clients, it's not like you're not getting paid. 

 

Updated On: 5/26/16 at 01:03 AM

[Daina]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:03am

And... I've read enough to convince me to suck it up and buy resale tickets. It seems like it's gotten completely out of hand.

[happydude]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:08am

casedilla2 said: "This means fans are getting almost all the tickets, as opposed to line sitters who don't even want to see the show - and those who are willing to pay a line sitter are actually getting the tickets cheaper than a line sitter would cost by covering the cost of the tickets for the fans waiting."


 

 

"I'm going to let you in on a little secret: the tickets line sitters got were also for FANS. 

 

[happydude]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:16am

jesskee said: "It seems like it comes down to very convenient logic on your part. You say that the ones who wait the longest get the worm. Unless that of course means that people are waiting multiple nights in a row, in which case, your logic of starting an entirely new line should be enforced."

 



 

 

"Not conventient logic. Just plain ole logic. In the recent past, there woiuld be two lines running at the same time. one for the present and one for the following. Those lines can run along multiple days, thus the earliest for that particular line, gets the worm. The lines were concurrent not consecutive, if you catch my drift. Being a patron, who probably hasn't done the line often many times, I don't expect you to know this, but do understand that's how it ran and it was cool that way. 

 

[casedilla2]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:17am

@happydude, yes, before the policy change. Sorry for being unclear - I was talking about how it stands now. Now when line sitters wait for tickets (except for premium), they are required to use them, which means they are seeing the show rather than fans who really want to.

With the new rules though, and with people starting to pair up and pay for tickets for those willing to wait in line, it's less expensive to do that now than it was even when a line sitter could buy 2 tickets and pass them both off to their client. That wasn't true when the wait was 12 or even 18 hours, but is true now with how long the wait has become. There just isn't as much of profit opportunity off of waiting for these tickets anymore, since people are willing to wait just for the opportunity to see the show and do not require much or any additional compensation.

[jesskee]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:18am

happydude said: "casedilla2 said: "This means fans are getting almost all the tickets, as opposed to line sitters who don't even want to see the show - and those who are willing to pay a line sitter are actually getting the tickets cheaper than a line sitter would cost by covering the cost of the tickets for the fans waiting."


 

 

"I'm going to let you in on a little secret: the tickets line sitters got were also for FANS. 

 

 

"

 

Yeah I guess that's why one of the linesitters for Tuesday left 15 minutes into Act I. Because he clearly cared about seeing the show and was a "real fan." Not saying he wasn't a nice guy. Just saying when the guys outright tell you they don't want to see the show, that doesn't scream "FAN" to me.  

[jesskee]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:22am

happydude said: "jesskee said: "It seems like it comes down to very convenient logic on your part. You say that the ones who wait the longest get the worm. Unless that of course means that people are waiting multiple nights in a row, in which case, your logic of starting an entirely new line should be enforced."

 



 

 

"Not conventient logic. Just plain ole logic. In the recent past, there woiuld be two lines running at the same time. one for the present and one for the following. Those lines can run along multiple days, thus the earliest for that particular line, gets the worm. The lines were concurrent not consecutive, if you catch my drift. Being a patron, who probably hasn't done the line often many times, I don't expect you to know this, but do understand that's how it ran and it was cool that way. 

 

 

"

 

Then I would've just had my buddy go and sit in the next line as soon as it formed (which is what we did). The guy keeping the line in check for our day came around and asked us if we'd be willing to wait for the next day if we didn't get tickets on that day, therefore putting us at the front of the next line just based on the amount of time we've spent sitting there. So if you have a problem with the policy, it was on the theater more than anything else. It's not tough logic. 

[brdway411]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:27am

Sunshine31 said: "Seen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/imstephwalsh/status/735548297247612932

https://mobile.twitter.com/NYlife1022/status/735425480497717249

Yikes!"

I have been camping out and sleeping in front of theaters for YEARS!!!!! Always put your valuables in a safe place before nodding off. In the years I have been camping, I have never had anything stolen and I take a computer, phone, DVD/Blu Ray player and disks, MP3 player and a backup power bank (the list varies on the wait time). It's NYC, people will steal if you give them the chance. 

[happydude]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:45am

casedilla2 said: "@happydude, yes, before the policy change. Sorry for being unclear - I was talking about how it stands now. Now when line sitters wait for tickets (except for premium), they are required to use them, which means they are seeing the show rather than fans who really want to.

With the new rules though, and with people starting to pair up and pay for tickets for those willing to wait in line, it's less expensive to do that now than it was even when a line sitter could buy 2 tickets and pass them both off to their client. That wasn't true when the wait was 12 or even 18 hours, but is true now with how long the wait has become. There just isn't as much of profit opportunity off of waiting for these tickets anymore, since people are willing to wait just for the opportunity to see the show and do not require much or any

additional compensation.

 

"While some people are pairing up, and that's a good concept for those willing to do so, some people would rather pay someone outright. If the new rules reverted by at least one variable, line sitters would have lots of business, because there are people who still want to get there tickets in this manner. And even now, I'm not really complaining about loss of work. I've lost work, but there are people who will still cover me. I could even afford to take an extra $177 hit out of my own pocket, because I charge enough. But, some patrons ultimately lose this way. Pushing one group out of the way, which is what the complainers did, does not change the fact that only so many tickets are allowed for purchase daily. Line sitters will still get business where they can and take tickets that could have gone to patrons.

Line sitters are not for the rich. Rich people purchase on StubHub and Ticketmaster without blinking. There was always a cap on how long waiters could wait, because you can't go above the charge on the re-sale market. There was a built in breaking point. As of now, two tickets, with one going to line sitters, is still not anywhere near the re-sale market. 

[happydude]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:56am

jesskee said: "happydude said: "casedilla2 said: "This means fans are getting almost all the tickets, as opposed to line sitters who don't even want to see the show - and those who are willing to pay a line sitter are actually getting the tickets cheaper than a line sitter would cost by covering the cost of the tickets for the fans waiting."


 

 

"I'm going to let you in on a little secret: the tickets line sitters got were also for FANS. 

 

 



Yeah I guess that's why one of the linesitters for Tuesday left 15 minutes into Act I. Because he clearly cared about seeing the show and was a "real fan." Not saying he wasn't a nice guy. Just saying when the guys outright tell you they don't want to see the show, that doesn't scream "FAN" to me.  

 

"I said WERE. Past tense.

 

[casedilla2]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 1:58am

happydude said: " While some people are pairing up, and that's a good concept for those willing to do so, some people would rather pay someone outright. If the new rules reverted by at least one variable, line sitters would have lots of business, because there are people who still want to get there tickets in this manner. And even now, I'm not really complaining about loss of work. I've lost work, but there are people who will still cover me. I could even afford to take an extra $177 hit out of my own pocket, because I charge enough. But, some patrons ultimately lose this way. Pushing one group out of the way, which is what the complainers did, does not change the fact that only so many tickets are allowed for purchase daily. Line sitters will still get business where they can and take tickets that could have gone to patrons.

Line sitters are not for the rich. Rich people purchase on StubHub and Ticketmaster without blinking. There was always a cap on how long waiters could wait, because you can't go above the charge on the re-sale market. There was a built in breaking point. As of now, two tickets, with one going to line sitters, is still not anywhere near the re-sale market. 


I'm not understanding what you mean by paying someone outright. It's not like line sitters have any better chance of getting tickets than a fan who goes to wait in the line. It all just depends on how long each are willing to wait. And with a line sitter, if the tickets are not acquired, they will still lose the line sitting fee, so the risk is much lower by pairing up with someone as well.

As for it not being anywhere near the resale market, that's just not true unless line sitters have lowered their typical rate. From what I understand, a line sitter usually runs about $20/hour, which would come out to $960 for a 48 hour wait, plus $354 for the two tickets - a total of $1314 ($960 of that being gone regardless of whether you get a ticket). And that's the rate for someone who only needs one ticket. If you're needing two, that means hiring two line sitters, which doubles the cost (and again, much of that money you'll lose if you don't get tickets). Meanwhile, there are tickets available tomorrow on StubHub, orchestra rows F and G, for less than $1300 total including fees. I'm just not understanding who's losing (again, besides pro line sitters) when patrons can get the exact same service from someone who was already planning on waiting in the line, and without any risk of losing a huge amount of money - or, just buy resale tickets (which especially become cheaper if you buy them closer to show time, which is what you do in the cancellation line anyways).

Updated On: 5/26/16 at 01:58 AM

[jesskee]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 2:16am

happydude said: "jesskee said: "happydude said: "casedilla2 said: "This means fans are getting almost all the tickets, as opposed to line sitters who don't even want to see the show - and those who are willing to pay a line sitter are actually getting the tickets cheaper than a line sitter would cost by covering the cost of the tickets for the fans waiting."


 

 

"I'm going to let you in on a little secret: the tickets line sitters got were also for FANS. 

 

 



Yeah I guess that's why one of the linesitters for Tuesday left 15 minutes into Act I. Because he clearly cared about seeing the show and was a "real fan." Not saying he wasn't a nice guy. Just saying when the guys outright tell you they don't want to see the show, that doesn't scream "FAN" to me.  

 

"I said WERE. Past tense.

 

 

"

 

casedilla was clearly referring to my post about the most recent events and politics of being on the line with linesitters who didn't want to see the show, even though you may not have picked up on that initially. I'm glad that you agree with me that the linesitters who got tickets weren't fans themselves. The issue is that they are taking away tickets from actual fans. If there was a policy in place where linesitters could pass their tickets off to the next people in the cancellation line, I'd be more okay with it. A sort of last minute "re-cancellation" if you will, once the clients get through. But that would be something the theater would have to agree to, and that seems unlikely. 

Anyway, I'm glad I got in. The show was incredible and worth waiting for. I live in Baltimore and the moment I got off the bus I ran to get my spot on the line. I can't believe it worked out, and I'm fairly certain that those people who waited two nights all got in today. If I could play this game multiple times and come by the theater anytime like someone who lives in NYC or parts of NJ, my perspective might be different. If you're coming from out of town your options are much more slim. My advice to those of you planning to "wait for it" is to go for a Javier show. I've heard he's brilliant, and there seem to be more tickets available on those days. And I mean, he did perform for President Obama, so that's KINDA cool. Make sure you have a buddy so you can spread across two days lines as necessary. It's much tougher to go it alone. Good luck everyone.

 

 

 

[happydude]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 2:24am

jesskee said: " Also if you're motivated by the money aspect, I've read that the linesitters get paid for their time whether or not they end up getting tickets for their clients. But they offer their service again to those clients at a discount price for a future show. So if you don't get tickets for your clients, it's not like you're not getting paid. "

 
"That's not how I operate my business. Some companies do that. I gamble, demanding no upfront fees and promising no charge if tickets aren't acquired. That was my biggest selling point and how I am able to compete with the more established line sitting companies. Not every line sitting company operates or charges the same. If I had lots of people who worked for me, I would demand upfront money because I would have employees who need to get paid.  

Also, for those saying line sitters are asking $20 per hour, a lot of companies offer flat rates or charge lower fees, better to make some money than no money.
 

Updated On: 5/26/16 at 02:24 AM

[mailhandler777]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 6:41am

Have any of the people waiting these crazy long times actually fallen asleep during the show? Every time work an 8hr night shift and head into the city after to see a show as soon as I sit down and the lights go down I get super sleepy. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 7:12am

mailhandler777 said: "Have any of the people waiting these crazy long times actually fallen asleep during the show? Every time work an 8hr night shift and head into the city after to see a show as soon as I sit down and the lights go down I get super sleepy. "

Define 'crazy long times' . The longest I waited was 15 hours and I didn't fall asleep at all during the show. Mind you I've listened to the soundtrack so many times before and am familiar with the show. I did see at least a few people sitting around me in center orchestra who did fall asleep or at least nod their heads off. None of them were from the cancellation line. I'm guessing it was their first time seeing the show and perhaps couldn't understand a lot of the fast rap parts (or who just felt the seat was very comfy). 

[schubox]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 7:39am

mailhandler777 said: "Have any of the people waiting these crazy long times actually fallen asleep during the show? Every time work an 8hr night shift and head into the city after to see a show as soon as I sit down and the lights go down I get super sleepy. 

 

"

I'm definitely interested to see how I'll feel going in to the show if I end up sitting. I imagine the adrenaline wearing off combined with the long ass sit making me exhausted.

[steins]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 11:14am

mailhandler777 said: "Have any of the people waiting these crazy long times actually fallen asleep during the show? Every time work an 8hr night shift and head into the city after to see a show as soon as I sit down and the lights go down I get super sleepy. 

 

"

My first try was 12hs. Too excited to enjoy it fully as a result.

2nd run 29hs. No longer as excited, very peaceful, And enjoyed it to the fullest extent.

I guess it is like when u drink too much coffee vs drinking water.

In both cases, no one in cancellation line nodded off.... We were all just super excited to see the show. 

[gatorgirl2]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 11:25am

steins said: "mailhandler777 said: "Have any of the people waiting these crazy long times actually fallen asleep during the show? Every time work an 8hr night shift and head into the city after to see a show as soon as I sit down and the lights go down I get super sleepy. 

 

"

My first try was 12hs. Too excited to enjoy it fully as a result.

2nd run 29hs. No longer as excited, very peaceful, And enjoyed it to the fullest extent.

I guess it is like when u drink too much coffee vs drinking water.

In both cases, no one in cancellation line nodded off.... We were all just super excited to see the show. 

 

"

How is it going steins? My line buddy is right behind you! Hope you get in tonight! 

[steins]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 11:27am

I helped her get into backstage :p

[gatorgirl2]

Posted: 5/26/16 at 11:28am

schubox from what I understand just get in line and keep moving up as it goes. So as people leave you just keep moving up and if you are offered Thursday tickets just turn them down and keep your spot. 

My line buddy said the line is about 20 people long give or take and people keep coming up to join but then ask how long people have been waiting and then leave lol.