Herod in JC Superstar

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:28am

Anyone have any thoughts about this character and his portrayal?

[TooDarnHot]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:31am

....?

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:32am

usually over-the-top and gay.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:34am

Anyone have any idea why? I've done some research, I'm just curious as to others points of view.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:40am

Some choose not to play it that way too-Alice cooper in the 90's London Revival comes to mind.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 10:50am

There's a lot of biblical significance to back it up. Herod Antipas kills John the Baptist at behest of his stepdaughter and is portrayed historically as a henpecked husband, bowing to the will of women, and portrayal considered effeminate in those days, also Jesus uses the feminine word for "fox" to describe him.

usually Im against arbitrary portrayals of effeminate gay men, but this one seems to have a lot to back it up.

[folkyboy]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 11:04am

historically, Herod was not King when Jesus lived. if you want to go by history...

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 11:08am

That's true.

[Justin D]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 11:44am

Mind you ALice COoper wasn't actually in the 96 revival, just on the CD. but yes, usually very gay, I guess due to the style of his song and the Campiness of the number.

However I love that the Live Vienna CD with Drew as Jesus has a woman playing Herod. She is totally fierce in an "Ursula" kind of way.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 11:47am

I also think musically Webber is talking about the state of musical theater. It's very subversive to have this traditional musical theater style in this heavy rock opera. It's like saying "this is what I think musical theater today is about, excess, heavy soupy dancy/singy stuff that has little to do with real drama"

Im not saying I agree with him, I'm just saying it's the impression that I get from the piece in context.

I have more and more respect for Webber as I begin to look deeper into the musical meaning of his works. Maybe he's not such a bad composer after all, he just chooses bad lyricists.

[tazber]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 1:07pm

I've always thought that the scene was going for a burlesque kind of feel. Not the "stripper" aspect but just the cheap show-biz sensibility.
All the frivolity and sarcasm juxtaposed with JC's somber and bedraggled state.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 1:10pm

Exactly. The most "base" version of traditional musical theater.

[Calvin]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 1:12pm

Well, not to mention that the audience needs a breather before the whole savage beating, suicide and crucifixion moments that are coming.

[Dancin Thru Life]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 2:24pm

It all came down to one thing...

Where else could you find a place for comic relief in such an intense story.

Well...now that I actually see it, it looks like CALVIN beat me to this point over an hour ago! I agree, CAL!

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 2:28pm

That's a reason, but not the reason that they decided on such a hackneyed old-fashioned form for the song. THey could have had a rock comedy song, but ALW chose traditional musical theater for a reason.

It's fascinating.

[Dancin Thru Life]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 2:36pm

YES....to KEEP IT GAY!

[DMsquared2]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 3:13pm

Photos of King Herod from the Original Broadway Cast album, unfortunately poor in quality:





Photos from: http://www.elijah.org/fenholt/jcsbdwy.htm

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 3:19pm

And ALW is not the first composer to portray Herod Antipas as effeminate. Strauss does so in Salome as well.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 3:23pm

It's not just Jesus Christ Superstar in which he is portrayed in this manner. I've seen him portrayed similarly in non-musical adaptions of the Gospels.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 3:27pm

There are quite a few examples of this. In Matthew, Jesus refers to Herod with the feminine (and unclean) "Fox" and talks of his "soft" clothing, both comparing him with the rugged John the Baptist, who of course, Herod had killed.

It's a very astute reading by ALW. I really have to rethink my hatred of him.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 4/17/08 at 6:01pm

In the original version on Broadway, he is portrayed by someone who looks like he just came from a Carmen Miranda look a like contest

Remember, it was directed by Tom O Horgan.

[incognito2]

Posted: 4/18/08 at 2:57am

i saw a really innovative production of superstar in austin, tx last year. it was mexican catholic themed, with a lot of dia de los muertos imagery. mary looked like frida kahlo...and herod was a lucho libre wrestler! it was so friggin cool.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 4/18/08 at 8:56am

Scott Miller said it best, so I'll just quote him:

"The next song, 'King Herod's Song,' is among the most interesting, for both good and bad reasons. First, Herod is like so many modern Christians, always asking God for something, always making deals, always begging for miracles, always flocking to far-flung places to witness the latest fake miracle sighting. Herod here plays the role of the Pharisees in the Bible, goading Jesus, tempting him to prove he has God on his side. But Jesus sees how shallow and inconsequential Herod is, and he knows that no matter what he says, his situation isn't getting any better. This song is Lloyd Webber's only obvious use of pastiche, a kind of raucous, blackly comic, British music hall song and dance number, presumably chosen to trivialize Herod, to show us how insignificant he is. Still, though it's clear that Lloyd Webber wanted to paint Herod as a grotesque man playing at being King, the use of such different music is a questionable choice. The song doesn't belong with the rest of the show, and certainly Herod isn't the only villain in the story; why aren't the others portrayed with equally bizarre, non-rock music? As unexpected as it is, introducing this kind of musical anomaly so far into the evening leaves the audience feeling disoriented, and sometimes more hostile toward Rice and Lloyd Webber than toward Herod. Merely using more rock sound in the instrumentation would have helped the number immeasurably, but as it stands, it just doesn't belong. British audiences, who are more familiar with the tradition of the British musical hall (their version of vaudeville) probably found this music less jarring than Americans did, but it still seems weaker than the rest of the score.

In the 1994 recording Jesus Christ Superstar - A Resurrection, 'King Herod's Song' is done as a 1950s rock number in 6/8; not only is it stronger dramatically, it also fits better into the score. Many modern productions now massage the music into something closer to rock, to satisfy audiences now used to fully integrated pop opera scores like Les Misérables and Rent. Herod eventually passes the buck again, and sends Jesus back to Pilate after he's had his fun. This number is often played as silly, comic relief in most productions, and inexplicably making Herod gay! (Apparently, for some folks, Herod's decadence in the Bible is easily expressed by homosexuality because we all know how decadent those gays are!) But the truth is that there is far more substance in this material than is usually apparent. For this great philosopher and political leader to be treated so disrespectfully, so grotesquely should be deeply upsetting, particularly with the extra baggage of two thousands years of Christian culture we all have. 'King Herod's Song' should be ridiculous – Rice once wrote, 'King Herod was a bit of a debauched bloke, who sat around smoking and drinking all the time with a lot of women around him.' – but he should also be scary, dangerous, disturbing."

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 4/18/08 at 10:56am

Haha... my dad LOVES "King Herod's Song." Everytime we see the show, he leans over and asks me "When is my song??" And I'm like "Dad, not until the second act... the show just started!"

[BkCollector]

Posted: 4/18/08 at 10:57am

Whoever this Scott Miller is, he's an idiot. The songs fits for the reasons mentioned in my other threads, and saying that ALW "inexplicably" makes him gay shows how Miller doesn't know anything at all about how Herod Antipas has been portrayed as gay prior to JC Superstar

too many MT writers don't do their homework and then present their analysis as definitive when it's clearly not.

Edit: Oh, THAT Scott Miller. I read "Deconstrucing Harold Hill" what a vapid attempt at scholarship. Updated On: 4/18/08 at 10:57 AM