Is Patina Miller the frontrunner for Lead actress right now?- Page 4

[Fran_mex]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:17pm

In my opinion, the number of times an actor or actress performs a role (let's say, 2 or 8 times a week) shouldn't matter.

After all, it should be only about the performance, and since most voters only get to see ONE performance before voting time, the fact that (for example) Patina has been doing that performance 8 times a week for a few weeks shouldn't be relevant. They (I suppose) will evaluate the performance they actually saw, in the same way oscar voters evaluate the final film and not the hundreds of takes that were filmed.

Also, a big portion of the audience will see the actor or actress perform just once, and not eight times a week. Hence, the "8 times a week" factor, should not matter, at least regarding Tony nominations.

And I know that doing a role 8 times a week is a merit on itself, however, I don't think that should count in the voters decision-making process.

In this sense, since -in my opinion- the performance is what matters, I think that it should be possible to nominate JUST ONE of the Matildas. It would be cruel, but they are different actresses, each one doing a different performance. Sharing the role should not translate in sharing the nomination in an authomatic way.

(I have only seen Matilda in London, by the way, and I liked it a lot)

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:21pm

Fran, my point re 8 shows a week is that every nominator will see the same person give the performance being considered for the award. With the Matildas, they would not. Thus making it a bit confusing for them to vote for someone who they have not seen to be honored for their performance.

[jburke1]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:26pm

I'm not going to say whether the Matildas or Patina should win - I thought both were great. However, to respond to the Matildas vs. Lilla Crawford. The Matildas are 2/3 years younger than Lilla. They might both be children but that is a HUGE difference. I didn't see Lilla because she was out, I believe due to problems caused BY performing 8 shows a week. And, IMO, the role of Matilda is more difficult than that of Annie, especially with the age gap.

I don't entirely understand the argument that because more people play the role it makes it less special. Maybe I'm just not understanding the argument, but that seems to come from similar rhetoric that no understudy/replacement/alternate will ever be as good as the original. I get that its slightly different with the actual award but that argument doesn't quite make sense.

Finally, I thought Block was a lock for a nomination. Maybe I'm blanking but are there other major front runners besides the Matildas, Miller and Osnes? I assumed it would be the three of them, Block, and maybe Dilly or Lilla Crawford?

[Fran_mex]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:28pm

Kelly2: I agree. It's confusing and nominating all four Matildas is not a recognition to the actresses, but a prize for the role.

That's why I am saying they should vote for one Matilda only. That would requiere that all voters see all four Matildas (otherwise competition would be unfair between them). But then again, I would prefer to see none of the Matildas nominated because of spliT-voting, than to see all of them nominated because most of the voters loved the ROLE.

EDIT: Also, I think age shouldn't matter. A Tony Award should (ideal world) go to the best performance, regardless of age. The same way you can say: "She's only 6, and doing a role that is so demanding is impressive", I can answer "She's 97, and ..."

Yes, Kids have it more difficult (learning al those lines, dancing, singing, etc), but that shouldn't matter. Only the quality of the final product (performance) should be relevant.





Updated On: 4/20/13 at 05:28 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:29pm

Can someone explain to me what exactly was so amazing about the role of Matilda? Besides the fact that some people are saying that it's amazing someone that young has the brain capacity to memorize lines and sing songs, I really don't get what's so special about the role, or the show as a whole.

And in a year when THAT is the role that people assume is the role to beat, I think that says a hell of a lot about the musicals we were presented with this season.

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:31pm

>> "I don't entirely understand the argument that because more people play the role it makes it less special."

Because it's not the role that get an award, it's the actor (or in this case, possibly several actors) that performed the role. If the award were called "Best Role Written For A Musical", there'd be no issue. Updated On: 4/20/13 at 05:31 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:37pm

If all four girls are equally wonderful (let's pretend they are) how can it be outstanding? You are proving that it's not special by saying they can all do it.

To me, it has NOTHING to do with how many performances they do in a week.

I've seen Patina, I've seen one Matilda. Patina created so much more than Matilda (and I liked my Matilda.)

[Fran_mex]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:39pm

Taking age into account because "it is impressive that a girl 6 o 7 years old memorizes all those lines" I think, is a bad idea. More precisely, and unfair method to make a decision as a voter.

If age should be a revelant factor, then also personal capacities should be considered. Some people have a greater ability to memorize things, some have terrible memory, and taking age into account would be like saying: "Oh, wow, XX YYYY has a terrible memory and she learned all her lines, let's nominate her for doing that"


Updated On: 4/20/13 at 05:39 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:41pm

Thi thread and your argument confuses me.

[Fran_mex]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:47pm

(Maybe it has something to do with my poor english skills)
To put it clearly:

If I were a Tony voter trying to make a fair decision:

Age would not matter to me, nor the number of times an actress performs a role each week.
I would go and see all four Matildas, and if I think one of them gave the best performance of the season, I would vote for her. (Of course, this would requiere that all voters see all four Matildas, in order to make the competition fair). Also, if I think that Patina Miller gave the best performance, I would vote for her, regardless of how many times she performs the role every week.

[jnb9872]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 5:55pm

I actually really like the point dramamama just made about how outstanding a performance can be if four of them are doing it together, (I'd never considered it framed that way) but I would like to address another point:

Simply put, the Tony's will allow joint nominations in cases where the nominating committee (a much smaller group) will see all the performers and adjudicate whether they can be considered jointly equal in terms of their performance. There is, to my mind, no debate to be had about the merits of joint nominations to that particular point; voters are being assured of a relative measure of equal value before they vote.

I personally think I would vote between the Matildas and Patina. They both made such impressions on me, they dominate my memories of each show. I was impressed by both Sophia (the Matilda I saw) and Patina for different reasons and look forward to tossing around in my mind reasons for each to see if I can come to a consensus in my mind.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:00pm

I doubt (but do not know) that the nominators saw all 3 Billys. I'm pretty sure I remember that between them all the boys had been seen.

It is not up to the Tony voters to decide how the Matildas are nominated -- there is an entirely different committee that does that. Once the decision is made, the voter either votes for all or none.

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:04pm

>> "Can someone explain to me what exactly was so amazing about the role of Matilda? Besides the fact that some people are saying that it's amazing someone that young has the brain capacity to memorize lines and sing songs, I really don't get what's so special about the role, or the show as a whole."

Do you have access to neighbors' kids, nieces or nephews that are 9 or 10 years old (4th or 5th grade)? If so, ask them to verbally tell you a story - any story about what they did today. (I'll wait...)

[muzak version of 'Girl from Ipanema' plays softly overhead...]

How'd they do? Were you captivated? Did they include details that allowed you to "see" their day? Could you "feel" what they felt as their day progressed?

If you were impressed, that's really wonderful. That kid will probably always be the life of the party and grow up to be a success - but don't get that kid an agent just yet...

Try the same experiment, but this time have the child tell you a story about something that happened to someone else. Ask them to demonstrate what the other person felt as they tell you the story.

Easier still (than the above) - give them a book and have them read the story to you out loud.

Are you still impressed by how they communicate to you?

To ask an adult to show the emotional range that is required in the song "Quiet" is not such a hard task, but to get a layered performance of those emotions from a 9-year-old is very different. Most 9 or 10-year-old don't have the capacity for emotional recall (if they've felt those emotions before).

Think back to when you were 9 (4th grade). What were your acting chops like?

The role of Matilda isn't the "ever-optimistic", (almost) one-note of Annie. She's angry, reflective, melancholy, loving, and most of all an incredible story-teller (I'm thinking of "I'm Here"). Most 9 or 10-year-olds can't even tell you how their own day went and keep an adult interested.

PS: It's not about "the role that people assume is the role to beat". It's not about a role, it's about meeting the challenges of performing a role.



Updated On: 4/20/13 at 06:04 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:11pm

"Think back to when you were 9 (4th grade). What were your acting chops like?"

From the local acting awards I got when I was 8 years old in guessing my actin chops were still pretty good when I was 9.

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:20pm

>> "From the local acting awards I got when I was 8 years old in guessing my actin chops were still pretty good when I was 9."

You say that, but make me feeeeeeel it!

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:22pm

Sit down on this box and I'll tell you all about it.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:31pm

In my opinion the nominations should be as follows:

Carolee Carmello: Scandalous
Laura Osnes: Cinderella
Patina Miller: Pippin
Sophia Gennusa/Oona Laurence/Bailey Ryon/Milly Shapiro: Matilda
Stephanie J Block: Drood or Lilia Crawford: Annie

I left out:

Annaleigh Ashford: Kinky Boots
Deborah Cox: Jekyll and Hyde
Erin Dilly: A Christmas Story
Valisia LeKae: Motown-The Musical
Taylor Louderman or Adrienne Warren: Bring It On

Updated On: 4/20/13 at 06:31 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:43pm

I cannot beleive Ashford will be eligible for leading. Not that big of a role.

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:51pm

I'm intrigued regarding Carolee Carmello. I've read a lot about how bad the show was, but did anyone see her performance? Did she shine in spite of the material? I think it's possible that she might have.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 6:57pm

It's entirely possible for her to get a nomination. This year doesn't exactly have an over abundance of leading lady roles in musicals.

[NewYorkTheater]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:08pm

I don't understand John Adams argument about most 8-year-olds not being able to tell a story well, so therefore the Matildas should get the Tony. By that reasoning, should we give a Tony to the cat of Breakfast at Tiffany's since most cats wouldn't sit still on stage like that?

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:09pm

>> "I don't understand John Adams argument about most 8-year-olds not being able to tell a story well, so therefore the Matildas should get the Tony."

I didn't write that at all. Scroll up... (it's a long thread with many comments)

Updated On: 4/20/13 at 07:09 PM

[broadway guy]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:12pm

I just listened to "im here" and im pretty sure i could find some 8 yr old from a crappy community theatre and have them learn it in a week...honest to god...

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:25pm

Sounded that way to me, too.

If that same child with a story is coached and trained many of them could be incredibly interesting -- especially when the words are not their own.

I'm not saying the girls aren't impressive -- but they aren't groundbreaking/amazing performances.

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:36pm

>> "I just listened to "im here" and im pretty sure i could find some 8 yr old from a crappy community theatre and have them learn it in a week...honest to god..."

Define "learn it".