Is Patina Miller the frontrunner for Lead actress right now?- Page 5

[Joviedamian]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:51pm

The only way we will really know if Patina wins the Tony is based on where she will be seated come Tony time. Douglas Carter Beane joked during Sister Act that he thought he had a change of winning the Tony since he was so close to the stage, until the day he arrived and the producers of the Tonys moved their seats to the back....then he knew he was going to lose.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:52pm

The mere fact that most people are addressing Patina by her name and "the Matildas" by their character's name explains why I think Patina should win.

We are currently working with some Matilda numbers in my academy, and all of the MT kids, who are approximately between the ages of 8-10 years old, can sing and dance the hell out of those songs, or any song for that matter. I guess they all deserve a Tony!

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 7:56pm

There's no flaws in either of those statements. None at all.

[binau]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 8:03pm

"The mere fact that most people are addressing Patina by her name and "the Matildas" by their character's name explains why I think Patina should win. "

Great way of putting this!

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 8:03pm

The mere fact that most people are addressing Patina by her name and "the Matildas" by their character's name explains why I think Patina should win.

We're calling them "The Matildas" because it's easier than saying Oona, Bailey, Milly, and Sophia every time we reference them. At least that's why I'm saying it.

We are currently working with some Matilda numbers in my academy, and all of the MT kids, who are approximately between the ages of 8-10 years old, can sing and dance the hell out of those songs, or any song for that matter. I guess they all deserve a Tony!

Updated On: 4/20/13 at 08:03 PM

[broadway guy]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 8:04pm

"Define "learn it""

Lines,Motivation,beats,subtext etc etc

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 8:22pm

This conversation is really enjoyable and interesting, but the overture is playing, just seconds (literally) before the curtain is going up on Bombshell, and Ivy has just asked her mother, "Mom, I need you to tell me the truth - now, before the reviews... Am I gonna make it?"

WHAT PROFESSIONAL WOULD EVER DO THAT????!!!

It's just too ludicrous... I have to watch!
(bye!)

Updated On: 4/20/13 at 08:22 PM

[uncageg]

Posted: 4/20/13 at 9:31pm

Just my opinion but....don't count Valisia out. That woman Is giving a wonderful performance even with a bad book. Don't expect her to win but I have a feeling she will get nominated. She was pretty flawless, in my opinion. My vote goes to Patina though.

[goldenboy]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 12:12am

I'm not a fan of Matilda. I'm also not a fan of 12 year old kids winning a tony. Imagine peaking at 12 years old! What happenned to Daisy Egan and Frankie Michaels? They both won Tony's at about 12 and nothing after. A person should not peak a 12.

I did not like Patina Miller in Sister Act but boy did she blow me away (in a great way) in Pippin. She deserves to win and definitely be nominated. She was wonderful in Pippin. Everything about Pippin was wonderful!

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 12:15am

I'm not a fan of Matilda. I'm also not a fan of 12 year old kids winning a tony. Imagine peaking at 12 years old! What happenned to Daisy Egan and Frankie Michaels? They both won Tony's at about 12 and nothing after. A person should not peak a 12.

I believe you've used this argument before and it fell apart then. It still doesn't hold up.

Just because you win an award at a young age doesn't mean you can't have a successful career afterwards. That's also not a legitimate reason to not give someone an acting award.

[goldenboy]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 12:26am

They should have a special category for children. I don't think 3 12 year olds alternating in a role should compete with a professional adult who has trained for years. I also worry for the child's ego to have an award so early.

And by the way, Wicked Rocks.. which Matilda are you the parent of?

Updated On: 4/21/13 at 12:26 AM

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 12:57am

How am I all of a sudden the parent of one of the kids because I think your defense of the girls "peaking too soon" and worrying about blowing up their ego is absolutely ridiculous...? Those things should play no role in whether or not someone is awarded a Tony.

And on top of all of that, I said at the end of the day, I would vote for Patina over the MATILDA girls.

Plenty of other people have given understandable and fair reasons why they think the kids shouldn't be clumped together, etc. Your reasoning, however, makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 2:08am

I just listened to "im here" and im pretty sure i could find some 8 yr old from a crappy community theatre and have them learn it in a week...honest to god...

Basing (Broadway) performances on (London) cast recordings and YouTube videos (you claimed to not have seen the full show) makes one's opinion on the quality of said performances not very valid or qualified.

I don't like this idea of "it's the role that's being awarded so the bookwriter should get the award." Should Oscar Hammerstein be awarded for Emile de Becque? Andrew Lloyd Webber for Eva Peron and Che? Hugh Wheeler for Sweeney Todd? If we're awarding bookwriters for well-written roles, then it should be the editors and not the actors to win Oscars for performance. After all, they're the ones that really make and shape the performance from hundreds of takes.

What if Sophia were the only of the four to be nominated? Would that make it more fair for everyone involved?

I do happen to think that the role of Matilda is quite sophisticated, and not because it is played by a very young girl. If people don't see the challenge in the role and what it actually requires of the actor, I really do recommend analyzing the role again. It's very challenging and tricky. And if we're comparing leading roles played by children, Matilda has much more depth and emotional journey than Annie does. Therefore, it requires much more to create a successful performance in my opinion. Now, this is nothing to say of the performance of any of the girls, which is what should be judged and awarded and not the complexity of the role.

[broadwaybabe1234]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 2:10am

i may sound like a broken record on this, but i wouldn't count Carolee Carmello out of the race yet.

In fact since both shows are now closed, i'm pretty sure she'll nab the nomination over Stephanie J. Block considering how thankless the role of Drood is. I also think Carolee was what made Scandalous tolerable and completely rose above the material. and all the reviews said that.

[SweetLips]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 3:13am

Thanks dramamama you answered my question-do the voters also choose who is nominated? -apparently not.Why then do the people choosing who is to be nominated make it a collective if there is more than one person playing the lead part?Not a case of fair or not--4 or 24 Matildas,if you saw each Matilda,then shouldn't you nominate the one you liked the best?

Updated On: 4/21/13 at 03:13 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 4:23am

Actually, I think there are three different groups:

One that determines eligibility and considers petition for anything inconsistent with the rules (above/below title considerations, categories, joint noms & other special circumstances)

One that uses the judgements above to vote and determine nominees. They cannot alter anything the above has determined.

One that votes on the results of the above results.


I'm sure if I'm mistaken, someone will clarify. I have no knoweledge if there is any overlap within those groups.

[SweetLips]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 4:34am

I'm so confused--but thanks[love reading your comments--you are fearless !]

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 4:43am

What are you still confused about?

[SweetLips]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 5:18am

Who chooses the groups--is there yet another group who does that and do performers vote for performers,writera for writers etc.?
Maybe direct me where I could possibly read up on the Tony rules.

[peachesr82]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 5:40am

Just to go back to the Matildas for a sec, I went through ballet school and we would do several of the professional productions (Nutcracker etc) and when I was 10, I'd have happily done 8 shows a week, I had the energy for that, but, you know,child labour laws. So Sophia, Oona, Bailey or Milly may be absolutely capable of the same workload as an adult actor it's just that they aren't aloud to. I don't see why they should get recognition.
And as for peaking at 12, well Anna Paquin's Oscar win did her no harm.
It's early I haven't had coffee yet so I hope that makes some sense.

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 8:29am

> "Maybe direct me where I could possibly read up on the Tony rules."

http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/about/rules.html

The rules are not always consistent from year to year.

[mikem]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 12:50pm

The eligible candidates are

Taylor Louderman and Adrienne Warren from Bring It On, who will not be nominated
Stephanie J Block
Carolee Carmello
Lilla Crawford
Laura Osnes
Erin Dilly
The Matildas
Valisia LeKae
Patina Miller

I’m guessing the Matildas are going to be ruled ineligible and they will get a special Tony instead (more on that reasoning below), so that leaves only 7 people for 5 slots. So it becomes more a matter of picking the 2 people who won’t make it than the 5 people who will. Erin Dilly is probably #7. I’m guessing Stephanie J Block will be #6, mostly because Drood is closed.

So the 5 nominees will be Carmello, Osnes, Crawford, LeKae, and Miller. (If the Matildas are in the race, they will take LeKae’s place.)

As for why I think the Matildas are getting a special Tony: I think that the fact that each one is only going on twice a week, without there being a clear role-related reason why they can’t go on three or more times a week, is really going to hurt them. It’s one thing to have a role be demanding enough that the actor can’t safely perform 8 times a week; it’s another thing for the actor to only go on twice a week because that’s what the producers want to do. Where is the end point – why not just nominate all of the understudies and swings for every role? There are 2 standbys and 1 additional understudy for the role of Annie – should they all get nominated, too? If each understudy/standby went on once a week, should all 4 Annies get nominated? And I think the randomly chosen opening night Matilda was a nice thing for the producers to do for the girls’ egos, but I think it reinforces the idea that the girls are interchangeable and therefore individually not that special. I’m sure the producers did not randomly choose who went on for the Times review, so the randomness for opening night was really just for show.

Also, post-Billy, the Committee supposedly turned down a petition for both Felas to be nominated, so I think there is some realization that the Billy decision wasn’t the best one in retrospect.

That being said, Matilda is a Broadway juggernaut, and the Committee will throw the producers a bone by giving the Matildas a special Tony, outside of competition. There is precedent for that – the rotating performers in La Boheme got a special Tony for their performances.

That's my theory, anyway.

Updated On: 4/21/13 at 12:50 PM

[trentsketch]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 1:55pm

Regarding the Matildas, I think I can provide a little insight. I work year round in educational theater programs teacher 1st through 12th graders. One program I work for has two productions happen at the same time. One is 4th graders in the leads with a 3rd grade ensemble and the other is 5th-8th graders in the leads with a 3rd grade ensemble. The difference in the age groups is mind blowing. There are 4th graders who can out perform 8th graders, but their actual capacity to memorize lines, staging, and songs is less. It's hard to put it all together at that age. The age shouldn't be a factor in voting, but it sure was a factor in finding four girls strong enough to play the role at a level worthy of this production.

The Matildas are on the younger side of the age range I teach during the year. I refuse to dismiss their abilities because of their age or only doing 2 shows a week (which is a partial picture as at least one of the other Matildas is always on standby in case they need to step in midshow). Performing the same role at the same level means that the director, music director, and choreographer effectively developed the role with a small group of young children. Unless they are all going out there literally delivering the same lines with identical inflection and never injecting any of their own personality or ideas into the role, they are not all giving the same performance. And I can't think of any actor capable of giving an identical performance night to night even when they have a role to themselves. Variation pops up no matter how hard they try to stick to the same thing. It's why actors get notes throughout a run. There's no way the four girls are doing the exact same thing, therefore they're not worthy of recognition.

I've taught shows where we've had to double cast before. I've never seen the same two or three children give identical performances before. Saying you saw two Matildas and they were both great so the performance isn't worth nominating is misguided logic. It's like saying the original actor shouldn't have won the Tony award because you saw the show with her replacement and they were just as good; therefore, neither one is actually giving a good performance. It's just the role. Anyone could do it.

Regarding Matilda specifically, I think the 4 way split is because of the psychological effect of the role. These are young children playing an abused little girl every night who is yelled at and mistreated by every adult in her life except for one teacher. That's a rough part to play. That's a hard head space to be in for an adult. A child needs time to recover from being in that dark of a psychological place. We can only hope the girls cast in the role didn't have real life experience with that kind of circumstance to draw from. I think those girls could each be doing 6 shows a week with an alternate, but I think it's smart that they're not. The last thing you want to do is burn out children at the start of their careers by pushing them too hard.

That's not even getting into how an 8 or 9 year old is playing a super genius, singing about metaphysics and literary theory every night. That's hard, too. You can't deliver the book and score without understanding the book and score so these girls got a crash course in material they wouldn't have learned in the real world for years.

If the Matildas win, it does not take away from the great aspects of Patina Miller's performance in Pippin, Laura Osnes' in Cinderella, Stephanie J Block's in Drood, fellow child actor Lila Crawford's in Annie--playing a role that's taxing in its much more traditional musical theater way--or any other possible nominee. It means that, when given the choice between a variety of different performances, the voters chose to reward the girls playing Matilda for their work in theater.

And if we want to have the character or the actor debate, we should start up a list of everyone who ever won on their only Tony nomination and decide if it was the actor or the role that got them the award. It can't just apply to children if that's the issue people have.

[ethan231h]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 2:24pm

Patina was amazing in Pippin so most likely and we all know Andrea Martin is wining also!!

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/21/13 at 2:36pm

Lord, I hope they don't give them a special award. What kind of precedent does that set? And in that case....what about Lila? She doesn't considered for a special award because?

I realize that you can't have a children's category as there are few years there is enough "competition".

Maybe the Tony Awards needs to think about how to proceed with this officially. Perhaps draw a line in the sand and not allow children (under a certain age) to even be considered. Or something. I don't know.

Again....of all the performances I've seen, I stand firmly that Patina's is by far the most riveting, regardless of age. I just wasn't all that impressed with what I saw in Matilda. Sure, my Matilda was good, and no, not all children could do it, but it just wasn't anything stupedous.