John Doyle is at it again!- Page 2

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:08pm

It wouldnt have been so bad had he not been so repetitive about it. Poor Sondheim: Doyle does this to SWEENEY and COMPANY and tried (and apparently failed) at doing it to NIGHT MUSIC. Throw into that the fact that he did SWEENEY and COMPANY in succeeding seasons. I didnt mind it for SWEENEY, but COMPANY really got on my nerves... and when I heard he wanted to do it to MIGHT MUSIC, I just about lost it.

Yes, he's done other things, but let's face it: as far as Broadway is concerned, these are his high profile productions. He needs a new gimmick, and soon.

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:17pm

Not to mention Merrily...

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:19pm

Oh god, I had etched that from memory, and then you have to come along and remind me...........

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:21pm

"Poor Sondheim"? He's praised Doyle's productions of his shows extensively. But I guess he's lying when he says he's likes them.

A Catered Affair was on Broadway, with Harvey Fierstein for God's sake. Not high profile enough? Road Show might not have been on Broadway, but it was still pretty high profile. (I don't know that the Night Music rumor was ever legitimated. I actually think it was basically made up.)

I just don't understand why these things don't count because they don't fit people's desires to complain. You don't have to like what he does, but to be willfully ignorant because you think that substantiates a matter of taste looks pigheaded. Have your opinions, but don't support them with false information.

Updated On: 7/24/11 at 10:21 PM

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:25pm

EVERYONE loved Where's Charley at Encores! EVERYONE! It was one of the best shows in all of NYC last season (I would go so far as to say the best). Directed by John Doyle.

He keeps directing in the actor/musician style because it is why he is known in this country, and because he is great at it. But to call him a one trick pony is ridiculous. He has not done any high profile shows in America in this style since Company, and he has worked a lot. Stupid arguments made by people who don't know what they are talking about.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:44pm

>> Stupid arguments made by people who don't know what they are talking about.

Do remind me to have my opinions veted by you before I post.

Frankly, COMPANY sucked. Big time. And not in that warm, squishy way either. It was just flat out bad, forcing a concept onto a play that didnt work anywhere near as brilliantly as some of the BWW fan-children claimed it did.

CATERED AFFAIR? Hmm. And how long did that last, luv? About a hundred performances, if I remember... with mixed-to-negative reviews that suggest a production that most would probably forget about. But I digress...

Thing is, folks, he ran this gimmick two years in a row — and would have gone for NIGHT MUSIC as well (and no this was not a rumour: a simple Google search will find interviews with him discussing it in 2007). Bottom line: how many times has he used this gimmick? Too many, in my terribly humble opinion.

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:49pm

When people say that this "gimmick" is all he can do, and then refuse to acknowledge that he can do other things, including what many believe to be the best production of the last season, their argument is moot.

I loved Company, and did not find the actor/musician concept forced at all, though I can see how some could see it that way. What I loved is that he used the instruments in Sweeney and Company in a totally different way. In Sweeney the instruments reflected the character's personalities and relationships to each other, where in company they represented the character's feelings, especially how they felt when it comes to relationships.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 10:55pm

I'm not saying it's all he's done, thanks anyway. What I am saying is that he's been to that well a few too many times.

And I'm glad you found something of merit in COMPANY. I didnt, save in some of the performances. Beyond that, it was just silly.

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:02pm

Sean, my initial argument was not geared towards you, but towards others who posted earlier in this thread.

I do agree that I would like to see Doyle direct more productions in NYC that do not use the actor/musician concept. But regional theatres are hiring him to direct shows with that concept since it is what has made him known in America. No harm in him making money and creating these creative (if controversial) shows for audiences who will probably not see them in NYC.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:14pm

Oh, I didn't like a Catered Affair (though by no fault of the directing). Just saying it happened, and that if "Broadway" is your definition of "high profile," then it would fit the bill. That's all.

Updated On: 7/24/11 at 11:14 PM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:22pm

A Catered Affair was dreadful and certainly doesn't bolster the argument that Doyle "can do other things."

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:27pm

Now you are twisting a question of things that happen into one of artistic capability. Two separate issues.

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:33pm

I didn't see Catered Affair, though I know people who loved it and hated it.

I did see Road Show, Where's Charley and ...Mahogany. Mahogany was decent (and some moments were brilliant), I really liked Road Show but thought it could have been expanded a bit more (and from what I've seen of the production in the U.K. it looks like he did that) and loved Where's Charley. When you add in Sweeney and Company and even the City Center Encores! Gala from 2 years ago, I see Doyle as a director who is able to create incredible images on stage, and characters with deep relationships with each other.

Obviously not everyone will think the same, isn't that what is brilliant about theatre?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:39pm

Gala was one year ago. Don't make me feel that old.

(i have a tough time counting stuff like that, to be honest. He was part of the draw for me with that and the Acting Company concerts, but that's just because I'm a huge Doyle-phile. I don't think you can really put them alongside full-fledged shows.)

Updated On: 7/24/11 at 11:39 PM

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:42pm

*2 seasons ago

I normally agree, but there was something about the performances in that gala. They were very different than any of the others I had attended (most of the major ones in the city for the past 3 years). It was a combination of the talent, the love for Sondheim, and Doyle's planning of it.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:47pm

It was pretty electric, and I did cry my face off. This is one of the few times where I'm reluctant to attribute that electricity as much to John, only because of the occasion. I don't think it'd have suffered on the whole without him, though it made for a lot of extra meaning for me -- and clearly you as well.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/24/11 at 11:51pm

It's become a pathological compulsion with him, this need to apply this formula, no matter the appropriateness, to any musical he is asked to direct.

It's a sickness, really, an addiction. He should receive treatment for it: medication...or a series of shock treatments.

He's really become like one of the strippers in Gypsy: He's got his gimmick and he's not letting go off it.

The man need serious help.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 12:14am

And let us not forget the casting fiasco that was BARNUM.

I still get a bit of a giggle over that.

[Idiot]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 12:17am

I hated his SWEENEY with a poisson. (Which is, of course, a fish.)

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 12:18am

I don't think 3 productions is a gimmick.

But step away from the actor/musician concept and there is some great working going on. Just his way of making the action flow is brilliant. I mean, he created so much atmosphere and so many great stage pictures in Sweeney and Company alone.

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 12:23am

"I don't think 3 productions is a gimmick."

No, ONE production is a gimmick.

THREE productions is pathological.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 12:25am

The Encores Sondheim Celebration was a disorganized, under-rehearsed mess, especially compared to the classy event done by Lincoln Center. And yes, I was in the audience for both.

In fact, the best moment at the Encores event was Nathan Lane's appearance...where he, ironically enough, made fun of the Doyle actors as musicians concept.

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 12:29am

He's done A LOT more than three of these actor/musician productions. He's done a TON of them in London. In the states, we've had SWEENEY and COMPANY. ISN'T IT ROMANTIC? and MERRILY are coming. Any others over here?

[theatreguy]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 12:33am

Though most, if not all, of the actor-musician productions he did in England were with the Watermill Theatre which does pretty much all musicals that way.

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 7/25/11 at 1:07am

I am not of the opinion that the actor-musician device is a "gimmick." In fact, I think it will probably be at its most effective in a review like TEN CENTS A DANCE where there is no text and the entire narrative relies simply on the music. Even SWEENEY TODD is mostly sung-through, which is why I think it worked equally well there.

That being said, I think MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG is the last show that should be done in that style. Mary literally has a line in "Opening Doors" where she says, "I don't perform- except at dinner." How do you justify having a character like that play an instrument the entire show?

Doyle's Watermill production was panned in a big Variety review, which made the very articulate point that the show is so episodic that it needs all the help it can get in terms of focusing on the narrative, not distracting from it.

Updated On: 7/25/11 at 01:07 AM