Musical cliches and tropes that should go away already- Page 3

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 12:35pm

GavestonPS said: "henrikegerman said: "Writers and audiences symbiotically confusing:
1) "seriousness" with profundity; and
2) "lightness" with insipidity"

Still prepping for those SATs, I see. Good for you!

It's never too late. LOL."

Prophylactically abating dotage, superveniently

 

[TheatreRocks]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 1:29pm

Overtures being solely led by either the trumpet or violin. When will this writing style ever stop ?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 1:56pm

thattreegurl said: "Song reprises(usually the opening number)as scene transitions. It's so so lazy"

Richard Rodgers didn't invent but developed that tradition, not out of laziness, but because he knew that the more times an audience hears a tune, the more likely they are to be humming it when they leave the theater. He was really the first composer to have not just hit songs, but hit scores.

Nowadays, of course, it's rare for a theater song to become a pop hit, no matter how many times it is reprised in the show. But repeating tunes during curtain calls still gives the listener's ear a break. Musical theater is still a popular genre, even if it has diverged from other forms of pop music.

Opera, on the other hand, has intervals that are more famous than some arias. (See the violin solo in THAIS.) But that's a classical form with a different group of listeners.

Bottom line: repeating tunes during scene changes isn't laziness; you can call it "pandering", if you like, but it gives the average theatergoer a respite from the demands of grasping more new music.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 2:06pm

^Gaveston, isn't there also a storytelling reason?  A "semiotic" reason may be more apt but I've already pushed it on the SAT vocab. 

Doesn't reprising themes during scene transitions provide musical and narrative continuity and satisfyingly advance the action in a integrally lyrical way?  Doesn't it add resonance to the score and the libretto?

Updated On: 9/26/17 at 02:06 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 2:15pm

^^^Absolutely. God knows I've killed a small forest writing academic papers about such usages.

But we already have a poster insisting the leit motif be left to Wagner, so I decided not to wade into that territory. I am left to wonder how that poster thinks shows are to be written and orchestrated without recourse to some sort of quoting from the rest of the score. Why not organize such allusions according to themes, characters, etc.?

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 2:21pm

^yowza!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 2:26pm

^^^Now you're speaking my language!

[darquegk]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 3:29pm

There are musicals where scene changes and notable incidentals are original music and not leitmotifs or reprises, and in shows that are light on non-song music, it's somewhat jarring. I just played keyboards for The Wedding Singer, and two of the scene changes are pieces that have no corollary in the musical numbers, just these big, catchy hooks that never recur again. It's almost a little distracting when these fifteen-second jingles get you thinking "where is that theme from?"

I was also waiting the whole show of "The Full Monty" for that fantastic late-show-theme Overture melody to recur. It didn't.

[morosco]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 3:34pm

Any show that has a fake flub.

Like this one.

[thattreegurl]

Posted: 9/26/17 at 3:51pm

GavestonPS said: "thattreegurl said: "Song reprises(usually the opening number)as scene transitions. It's so so lazy"

Richard Rodgers didn't invent but developed that tradition, not out of laziness, but because he knew that the more times an audience hears a tune, the more likely they are to be humming it when they leave the theater. He was really the first composer to have not just hit songs, but hit scores.

Nowadays, of course, it's rare for a theater song to become a pop hit, no matter how many times it is reprised in the show. But repeating tunes during curtain calls still gives the listener's ear a break. Musical theater is still a popular genre, even if it has diverged from other forms of pop music.

Opera, on the other hand, has intervals that are more famous than some arias. (See the violin solo in THAIS.) But that's a classical form with a different group of listeners.

Bottom line: repeating tunes during scene changes isn't laziness; you can call it "pandering", if you like, but it gives the average theatergoer a respite from the demands of grasping more new music."

Thank you so much for the information, I'll be honest that I have less and less time to look into such things, and having it easily and respectfully laid out for me is always appreciated.

Clarifying, I was;t so much bemoaning reprises all together, or even using them for transitions if it makes sense narratively or thematically, I was more thinking of shows like Legally Blonde making me sit through Omigod You Guys over and over, lol. Thanks for the critique, again! 

[coreman009]

Posted: 9/27/17 at 1:05pm

On the topic of Jukebox Musicals, I'm fine with them only if they have a real story. That's why Jersey Boys worked so well, the music wasn't just crammed in to a nothing story.

Unfortunately shows like Mamma Mia and American Idiot were just weak excuses to play that music on Broadway. No thanks, I'd rather stay home and listen to the original band. 

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 9/28/17 at 7:32am

The mindless act two opening "performance" song. It's not as common these days but some classic musicals used to behave as though the audience was still grabbing their drinks at the bar.

If done right it can serve a purpose.  City of Angel's Stay With Me, Guys'and Dolls' Take Back Your Mink, Music Man's Shipoopi and Oklahoma's The Farmer and the Cowman comment on the themes and relationships of the show.

If not done right it's just... there.

Annie - You're Never Fully Dressed Without a Smile
Barnum - Come Follow the Band
Carnival - Puppet Medley.  (Yum Ticky Tum, The Rich, Beautiful Candy) The movie finds use for the puppets throughout. The musical crams Lili's puppet career into a medley of inane songs.
Crazy for You - The Real American Folk Song.
Damn Yankees revisal - Who's Got the Pain. (This ended act one in the original production. Either way it's a terrible song IMO.)
Oliver! Oom Pah Pah. The film fixes this by tying it to the story. 
The Pajama Game - Steam Heat. (A terrific show piece but they didn't bother integrating it into the plot. The revival tried to make it a character moment but it was for a new character we didn't care about.)
Pal Joey - The Flower Garden of My Heart. 

Updated On: 9/28/17 at 07:32 AM

[darquegk]

Posted: 9/28/17 at 8:49am

Yeah, some of those "eye-opener" numbers never quite work. I've always loved the way "The Gong Show" lampoons this, with a guy dressed in stereotypical "summer stock musical theatre" attire opening the second half of the show and getting the audience to sing the inane "Shaving Cream" song.

[Lot666]

Posted: 9/28/17 at 9:00am

adamgreer said: "All anyone ever seems to buy when they come back from the grocery store is a celery stalk and a baguette."

[bear88]

Posted: 9/28/17 at 2:06pm

This thread is making me realize that some things bug me a little that I didn't think about much.

- The lone African-American ensemble member. I saw that in the An American in Paris tour last night, and not for the first time. It's better than an all-white show, but was there really only one qualified person of color?

- The scaffolding set for small-cast rock musicals. Is this a rule or something? I didn't realize the Broadway production of Next to Normal had something similar until after I saw a local production, which didn't (to fine effect).

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 9/28/17 at 2:10pm

MrsSallyAdams said,"The mindless act two opening "performance" song. It's not as common these days but some classic musicals used to behave as though the audience was still grabbing their drinks at the bar.

If done right it can serve a purpose.  City of Angel's Stay With Me, Guys'and Dolls' Take Back Your Mink, Music Man's Shipoopi and Oklahoma's The Farmer and the Cowman comment on the themes and relationships of the show.

If not done right it's just... there."

Another example of this is "Red, White, and True" from Big Fish (although I do really dig this song).

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 9/28/17 at 3:00pm

I like Morning Person from Shrek and Too Darn Hot from Kiss Me Kate. I think the strength of the song itself and the way its staged is relevant. If it's done well, it'll be entertaining. If it's not done well, it stops the action and makes it feel like the show is dragging. I do think an issue is that sometimes these songs go on for far too long given how little new information they're providing or how little they contribute to moving the story forward. 

[bear88]

Posted: 9/28/17 at 4:11pm

Hey, I rather like "Masquerade" in the Broadway version of Phantom. There are plenty of other songs I would cut first. It's fun to watch, seems to serve a purpose.