New York Magazine Panel: Pick the Greatest Musical
#2
Posted: 1/10/11 at 10:58pm
Astute, funny and a great read. Glad they picked people who know musicals and appreciate musicals and love musicals, and not Michael Riedel, Ben Brantley and Charles Isherwood who wouldn't know a good musical from their ass.
I would still pick Sunday in the Park... as the greatest musical, but maybe it's because I have an emotional reaction to that score, and I'm pretty emotional these days. I used to say Gypsy. I really don't know what the greatest musical is. It's a tough one. Really is.
I would still pick Sunday in the Park... as the greatest musical, but maybe it's because I have an emotional reaction to that score, and I'm pretty emotional these days. I used to say Gypsy. I really don't know what the greatest musical is. It's a tough one. Really is.
#3
Posted: 1/10/11 at 11:24pm
Love it. Love everyone involved. Who knew Nora Ephron was such an expert on musicals? It's very quotable too. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall.
#4
Posted: 1/11/11 at 8:04am
I would like to see a movie made of that interview...like "My Dinner With Andre."
#5
Posted: 1/11/11 at 8:41am
I truly enjoyed reading this 
"TO LOVE ANOTHER PERSON IS TO SEE THE FACE OF GOD"- LES MISERABLES---
"THERE'S A SPECIAL KIND OF PEOPLE KNOWN AS SHOW PEOPLE... WE'RE BORN EVERY NIGHT AT HALF HOUR CALL!"--- CURTAINS
#6
Posted: 1/11/11 at 10:53am
Tunick: Carousel has its moments of high spirits.
Green: If you like clams, I suppose.
Green: If you like clams, I suppose.
#7
Posted: 1/11/11 at 11:07am
I loved it, but it goes right back to the argument I've had here over and over: It's all just opinion. You can not empirically prove one work of art is better than another.
#8
Posted: 1/11/11 at 11:11am
Thanks for sharing this link - what a fun read!
"This is wanting something, this is reaching for it,
This is wishing that a moment would arrive.
This is taking chances, this is almost touching, what the beauty is." --The Light in the Piazza
#9
Posted: 1/11/11 at 11:34am
What a hugely enjoyable piece - thanks a lot.
#10
Posted: 1/11/11 at 11:46am
I have a feeling that Nora Ephron is part of this just to write it up as an interesting piece. While the others have solid theater credentials, hers is sadly lacking. They should have had the fourth be an actress like Patti LuPone or Barbara Cook.
I think it's interesting that they don't consider musicals that have had a huge life after the stage. I didn't read the whole article but where musicals considered that took Broadway to the world: "The Sound of Music" "Grease" "Dreamgirls" "Chicago"?
I think it's interesting that they don't consider musicals that have had a huge life after the stage. I didn't read the whole article but where musicals considered that took Broadway to the world: "The Sound of Music" "Grease" "Dreamgirls" "Chicago"?
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#11
Posted: 1/11/11 at 1:13pm
Nora earned her place at the table with her comment about including "popular American opera" because it is a "tiny category that almost doesn't exist."
And her comment about why she didn't love She Loves Me when she first saw it sums up many of the ongoing conversations on this board.
And her comment about why she didn't love She Loves Me when she first saw it sums up many of the ongoing conversations on this board.
#12
Posted: 1/11/11 at 1:26pm
I thought Nora Ephron sounded incredibly invested in the subject at hand. And I dare say she's a better choice to show less biased judgement than someone like Patti LuPone.
#13
Posted: 1/11/11 at 1:43pm
I found the discussions of why people connect with particular shows very illuminating- Rich's remarks about about single parent-shows for example.
#14
Posted: 1/11/11 at 1:50pm
Given that the topic was stage musicals and not movie musicals, it is appropriate that The Sound Of Music is not on the list. Same with Grease.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#15
See! It IS possible to disagree with people and still find their opinions enlightening!
**teaches the world a lesson**
Posted: 1/11/11 at 1:54pm
See! It IS possible to disagree with people and still find their opinions enlightening!
**teaches the world a lesson**
CHURCH DOOR TOUCAN GAY MARKETING PUPPIES MUSICAL THEATER STAPLES PERIOD OIL BITCHY SNARK HOLES
#16
Posted: 1/11/11 at 2:20pm
Of course it is. This board has a rich and wonderful history of people disagreeing and still finding each other's opinions enlightening.
That's what BroadwayWorld is all about, Charlie Brown.
In the article, the set up of the conversation was to contrast their differing opinions and the four of them were incredibly gracious to and appreciative of each other's opinions.
Problems usually arise on this board when needy, attention-deprived posters like chekkyjr, looking for a outlet for their passive-aggressive narcissism, come on to the board, post deliberately provocative threads obsessively for a week or two, presenting their opinions as facts--often without seeing (or reading) the work in question!--always oblivious to others in the discussion or their negative impact on the level of discourse on the board.
Those posters invariably burn out and stop posting, or take their meds and migrate to other screen names, where they go back to civil discourse.
That's what BroadwayWorld is all about, Charlie Brown.
In the article, the set up of the conversation was to contrast their differing opinions and the four of them were incredibly gracious to and appreciative of each other's opinions.
Problems usually arise on this board when needy, attention-deprived posters like chekkyjr, looking for a outlet for their passive-aggressive narcissism, come on to the board, post deliberately provocative threads obsessively for a week or two, presenting their opinions as facts--often without seeing (or reading) the work in question!--always oblivious to others in the discussion or their negative impact on the level of discourse on the board.
Those posters invariably burn out and stop posting, or take their meds and migrate to other screen names, where they go back to civil discourse.
#17
Problems usually arise on this board when needy, attention-deprived posters like chekkyjr, looking for a outlet for their passive-aggressive narcissism, come on to the board, post deliberately provocative threads obsessively for a week or two, presenting their opinions as facts--often without seeing (or reading) the work in question!--always oblivious to others in the discussion or their negative impact on the level of discourse on the board.
Exactly. This is so true.
Posted: 1/11/11 at 2:26pm
Problems usually arise on this board when needy, attention-deprived posters like chekkyjr, looking for a outlet for their passive-aggressive narcissism, come on to the board, post deliberately provocative threads obsessively for a week or two, presenting their opinions as facts--often without seeing (or reading) the work in question!--always oblivious to others in the discussion or their negative impact on the level of discourse on the board.
Exactly. This is so true.
#18
Posted: 1/11/11 at 2:37pm
"Given that the topic was stage musicals and not movie musicals, it is appropriate that The Sound Of Music is not on the list."
All of those that I mentioned were first stage musicals.
All of those that I mentioned were first stage musicals.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#19
Posted: 1/11/11 at 2:44pm
This was an interesting, fun piece -- even the parts I don't necessarily agree with. A good primer on musical theater as well. And I agree with the poster here that these panelists were better choices than the Times' current theater critics.
This is what surprised me most:
(1) Only ONE person included "Fiddler on the Roof" in their list???!!!
(2) No follow-up on Rich's comment that "Cabaret" is the only musical improved from stage to film. I think "West Side Story" was. "Oliver" too. Probably also "Sound of Music."
(3) I would never dream of putting "Caroline, or Change" or "Light in the Piazza" anywhere near a shortlist of greatest musicals ever. And, sorry, but "Sunday in the Park" loses MAJOR points for its extremely limiting appeal in terms of subject matter (and how it's presented), melody and that slo-o-ow opening. It's just too esoteric/highbrow/whatever.
(4) No mention/discussion of "Les Miz." Would have liked to hear what people had to say about how it does or doesn't measure up to a "great" musical.
This is what surprised me most:
(1) Only ONE person included "Fiddler on the Roof" in their list???!!!
(2) No follow-up on Rich's comment that "Cabaret" is the only musical improved from stage to film. I think "West Side Story" was. "Oliver" too. Probably also "Sound of Music."
(3) I would never dream of putting "Caroline, or Change" or "Light in the Piazza" anywhere near a shortlist of greatest musicals ever. And, sorry, but "Sunday in the Park" loses MAJOR points for its extremely limiting appeal in terms of subject matter (and how it's presented), melody and that slo-o-ow opening. It's just too esoteric/highbrow/whatever.
(4) No mention/discussion of "Les Miz." Would have liked to hear what people had to say about how it does or doesn't measure up to a "great" musical.
Updated On: 1/11/11 at 02:44 PM
#20
Posted: 1/11/11 at 2:47pm
"All of those that I mentioned were first stage musicals."
I know that, but as stage musicals, I don't think they rank among the greatest ever.
I know that, but as stage musicals, I don't think they rank among the greatest ever.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#21
Posted: 1/11/11 at 2:55pm
No mention/discussion of "Les Miz." Would have liked to hear what people had to say about how it does or doesn't measure up to a "great" musical.
Weren't they only discussing American musicals?
Weren't they only discussing American musicals?
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
#22
Posted: 1/11/11 at 3:08pm
Yeah, I think it's only American musicals. But I doubt this group would consider Les Miz one of the greatest musicals of all time.
#23
Posted: 1/11/11 at 3:16pm
Front Row, I think Sound of Music is the best stage-to-screen transition ever.
#24
Posted: 1/11/11 at 3:29pm
I must disagree with you, FrontRow, on your opinions on Sunday in the Park... .
It may not have a razz-ma-tazz opening, but it has an opening perfect for that show. Perhaps I'm biased. I love that show.
Really this was great-- and I'm glad to see an article where Frank Rich discusses theatre again. I love his political commentary, but sometimes I wish he were reviewing theatre again.
It may not have a razz-ma-tazz opening, but it has an opening perfect for that show. Perhaps I'm biased. I love that show.
Really this was great-- and I'm glad to see an article where Frank Rich discusses theatre again. I love his political commentary, but sometimes I wish he were reviewing theatre again.
#25
Posted: 1/11/11 at 5:07pm
My problem with Sunday in the Park is Act 2. For me it's boring compared to Act 1.
Instead of "Caroline or Change" or "Light in the Piazza" they should have discussed "City of Angels" which is much better than either show.
Instead of "Caroline or Change" or "Light in the Piazza" they should have discussed "City of Angels" which is much better than either show.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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