New York Magazine Panel: Pick the Greatest Musical- Page 3

[Amalia Balash]

Posted: 1/12/11 at 5:39pm

Wonderful article! A lot of insights about what resonates when and how with an audience member. The opera/musical dividing line discussion also fascinated me. I always think of Porgy and Bess as an opera no matter who's performing and never think of Sweeney Todd as one. But I couldn't articulate why.

The hopeless romantic in me loves She Loves Me and Sunday for very different romantic ideals. But I'd put Guys and Dolls above either of them on my list of "greatest" musicals. It all just fit together so perfectly.

My list would have to include Show Boat for what it tried to do. And because Old Man River was one of my father's all time favorite songs.

[mikem]

Posted: 1/12/11 at 7:01pm

I have to admit I've never seen The King and I, but I was surprised that the group considered it to be the greatest of the Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals. Is that the general critical consensus? I always thought that Carousel and South Pacific are considered their top shows.

[broadwaybabytn]

Posted: 1/12/11 at 7:04pm

For a wider audience, their list was very well-crafted. I disagree with some small aspects, but who am I to quibble.

I quite enjoyed Ephron pushing for My Fair Lady...

[jv92]

Posted: 1/12/11 at 7:04pm

Well, if you ask a guy on the street what R&H's top show is they'd say Sound of Music.

[broadwaybabytn]

Posted: 1/12/11 at 7:07pm

To clarify, "enjoyed" does not mean I think My Fair Lady belongs on a list of the greatest musicals, bue her persistance was quite entertaining.

[esparza 333]

Posted: 1/12/11 at 11:02pm

That was an excellent read!!! I think it is completely subjective. I do not believe the King and I is the greatest of Rodgers And Hammerstein, I would rate South Pacific, Carousel, Oklahoma and even Sound of Music above it. I think that what they said about My Fair Lady requiring a strong Higgins is equally true for the King and I. gotta love Nora Ephron and she earned her place on that panel in my opinion

[jv92]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 12:17am

Yes, I'll agree you need a strong Anna and a strong King and King and I, but it's a better show than Fair Lady.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 12:50am

I would only rate The King and I as the 4th best R&H show, behind Carousel, South Pacific, and Oklahoma.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 8:09am

Well, if you ask a guy on the street what R&H's top show is they'd say Sound of Music.

In my experience, if you ask a guy on the street what R&H's top show is, he'll punch you in the nose.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 1:11pm

I've never had that experience PJ, but I'm glad that you told me that. Now I'll never ask someone on the street their favorite R&H.

[mikem]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 1:53pm

PJ, I think that you are right that if you ask the average younger guy on the street about Rodgers and Hammerstein, he will be surprised that one would think he has a favorite musical. I'm curious what you and others think about how we got to this point where liking musicals and the theater is somehow considered to be "not a guy thing." I don't think this was as true 40 or 50 years ago (or was it?). I think that this change has been true for many of the arts (going to an art museum or listening to classical music have become much lower on the list of activities a guy will be doing as well), but it seems to be more true for musicals and theater than most other art forms (except opera, which I think is even less of a "guy thing"). I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.

[Mythos]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 11:24pm

A pathetic article, the only purpose of which is the exercise of a lot of self-congratulatory punditry and mutual back-slapping. How can anyone take seriously someone who dismisses Carousel on the basis of one line taken completely out of context? And to consider the musically vacuous Caroline, Or Change as a contender for greatness perfectly demonstrates the tin ear of these 'experts.' Simply appalling.
Updated On: 1/16/11 at 11:24 PM

[PetitPoisson]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 11:38pm

Well I guess it's all a matter of opinion...nothing to get up in arms about. I happen to find Carousel a bore, but adored Caroline, Or Change, but that's just my opinion. I thought it was a wonderful read, even if I don't agree with all that they had to say. A bit confused about Ephron's inclusion in the convo, but she was entertaining nonetheless.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 11:41pm

Mythos, who do you think should have been on the panel-- Ben Brantley, Charles Isherwood and Michel Riedel?

[Mythos]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 11:46pm

Practioners in the field, not critics.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/17/11 at 12:05am

George Woolfe is a director. Jonathan Tunick is an orchestrator. They're practitioners. And as for the critics, Frank Rich is not only the most astute theatre critic out there, but he generally loves musicals. Jesse Greene also has a lot of affection for the form. This is a lot better than the bitchery we'd get from a Times panel on the same subject.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/17/11 at 12:55am

The panel was perfect. The conversation was intelligent and witty.

But "pathetic" and "appalling"? Save your dudgeon. It's way overplayed.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/17/11 at 10:05pm

It really was perfect. I don't see how anyone could complain. I didn't agree with everything on their top-ten, but I agreed with their honesty, wit and intelligence.

[JacksonMaine]

Posted: 1/18/11 at 6:42am

I agree the panel was pretty close to perfect. Ephron is a writer, Wolfe a director, Tunick an orchestrator, etc. I myself would have argued that "My Fair Lady" is heads and tails above both "Sweeney" and "Guys and Dolls". Every song in it is wonderful, it hails from a great play, the characters are specific and three dimensional, and it has a terrific ending. But that's me.

[buddy 11432]

Posted: 1/18/11 at 12:05pm

I agree that the every songs is wonderful test should have counted for more than it did. I would add two more musicals as numbers 11 & 12: "South Pacific" and "Annie Get Your Gun."

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/19/11 at 12:16am

When SPAMALOT ( on NObody's list!) appeared on B'way i remember someone (i think it was Harvey Fierestein) saying that this was something that musicals USED to do- bring guys to the theatre- something that people had forgotten or disdained now. Why? cos SPAMALOT was stupidly funny the way a lot of shows from the 40's and 50's were PLUS there were all the SHOWGIRLS!!! ( yes they usta attract the hetero crowd) My bro in law ( a racist illiterate homophobe if ever there was one!)LOVED SPAMALOT. He and my sis saw Billy Elliott in London and YEP he hated it( except the Maggie Thatcher drag bit) So a blatant hetero sex appeal and lots of funny bits ( hmm I think I've just described 75% of Guys and Dolls) are neccessasary to get manly mens to the musical theatre. And that's in pretty short supply.
That's just my take.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/19/11 at 12:27am

Spamalot may have brought men to the theatre, but that doesn't mean it's great.