Next to Normal and its depiction of bipolar disorder.- Page 2

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/7/10 at 10:40pm

Well, yeah, but the OP was asking if the portrayal is accurate, so I think it's fair to bring that up.

But I agree that he's probably symbolic. They always emphasize Diana is delusional; they don't say that she's hallucinating.

[brightasyellow]

Posted: 7/7/10 at 10:52pm

This is very interesting... I'm really looking forward to seeing it. When I found out about it (and it played at Arena Stage before Broadway where my family had season tickets growing up!) I was so excited. I'm hoping that it helps destigmatize mental illness.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/7/10 at 11:33pm

I know two therapists who saw the show and were surprised and impressed by the level of sophistication displayed in the writing.

Those on this thread dismissing it as a Lifetime movie are being either disingenuous or melodramatic. It is much more complex than that--and they know it.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 12:47am

I am being neither disingenuous or melodramatic. I felt I was watching a Lifetime movie set to music while I was in the theatre. I didn't care for the production and thought it highly over rated. Yes there were parts that were spot on others that were overly simplified. One person's sophistication is another's made for TV movie.

[April Saul]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 10:08am

There's been TONS of heated debates about this on this board from the time N2N started off-Broadway. Overall, I think it's groundbreaking, if only because it's a successful Broadway musical depicting mental illness in a really affecting way and resonates deeply with audiences. My bipolar friends who've seen it find much to identify with, although they all reject the idea that the Diana character could actually make a go of it without meds--especially if she's Bipolar Type 1, which is more severe and can involve delusions and psychosis. So perhaps it's as realistic as it can be and still be marketable on Broadway. But well worth seeing...

[winston89]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 12:15pm

I will say that it was the music that first drew me to the show, that Kitt and Yorkie were able to write a song that would fit well in the context of the story and make sense. But, at the same time can just stand alone as a great song.

But, as I have said earlier I do have mood issues, something similar to bipolar. But, my doctor is one that isn't quick to place a label on something.

In any event, when I saw the show the first time, I connected to it right away. I looked at the characters and saw my family through them. I was able to see one character and say "that's my mom" or "those are my two brothers." It really hit home. I was worried that they were going to take a serious topic and sugarcoat it. But, I am glad that they didn't do that. I think that they handled it very well.

Furthermore, I think that there is a big difference between saying what is accurate on a topic (in this case mental illness) because you worked on it and learned about it in a classroom verses being a person who is impacted by it and has to live with it on a daily basis. Sure, there are people who talk about how they know because they have a brother or family member who has one. But, still there is a difference between having one and living with someone who does.

[chellie]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 12:23pm

Sure, there are people who talk about how they know because they have a brother or family member who has one. But, still there is a difference between having one and living with someone who does.

This is true, but that doesn't mean that someone who lives around someone who has a mood disorder instead of having one is any less qualified to say whether or not the portrayal is accurate. They'd just be talking more in terms of the effect it has on Natalie or Dan rather than the effect it has on Diana.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 12:42pm

Those of us who learn about mental illness in a classroom though have to be able to recognize it in everyday life and differentiate between numerous diagnoses that could all fit the person's symptoms. A good part of this is based off only a 60 or 90 minute interview with the person, plus various other assessments.

Also, much of what we learn is based off of research with large sample sizes, as opposed to one person or a few people.

Edit: Not that I'm saying either type of insight is better--they're just different, and IMO equally valuable.

Updated On: 7/8/10 at 12:42 PM

[newintown]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 2:32pm

Words like "accurate" or "realistic" are meaningless in this context. Many people, when discussing this show, boast "I have experience with bi-polar people!," or "I know therapists who say it's realistic!"

I have been close to bi-polar people and I find the story/book/plot to be simplistic, reductive, and banal. I also know psychiatrists who find the show to be lacking in real exploration of the topic.

But it's a musical, folks. Who cares if it teaches you something factual?

Unfortunately, for me, it fails as a musical, too. The lyrics are rarely better than good adolescent poetry and often just embarrassing. The music makes Richard Rodgers sound like Schoenberg.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 3:37pm

For the record, I'm a clinical social worker, so I own my bias.

I think N2N is a very solid depiction of mental health issues and how they impact a family system. I believe they do very well under the constraints of trying to entertain, be under 3 hours, etc.

Actually, I walked away from the show thinking it was a show about grief and loss issues and not really about bi-polar disorder at all. I kind of felt like "bi-polar" which is in all the press notes and materials about the musical is really more of a smoke screen than truly what Diana suffers from.

Diana presents as a puzzle that gets labeled as bi-polar with delusions. The complex truth is that she misses her son and everything she knew, including herself and her husband, that changed after his death.

She probably has manic episodes as evidenced in the opening number with the sandwiches, but I really love the line where she sings, "what happens if the cut, the burn, the break, was never in my brain or blood, but in my soul." That spoke volumes to me about her journey. She was rushed out of her grief by a type-A husband who quickly got her pregnant and tried to erase her grief. The implications from that are huge.

So I really see it as a show about grief and loss more than anything else.

I also like the theories I have heard that since Gabe died as a baby his incarnation is Dan at the age when Gabe died, making the end more poignant as Dan makes peace with his younger self that tried to brush over the past without grieving it.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 4:42pm

I have a friend who cannot see, hear or speak.

She went to see a production of The Miracle Worker and told me the depiction of Helen Keller in The Miracle Worker was a Lifetime Television movie version of it.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 4:47pm

Carrie Fisher kind of took issue with the way electro-shock therapy is depicted in the show when she was on Rosie's Sirius show recently. She said that the way they do it now is much less invasive. I don't think she said that she disliked the show, though.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 4:48pm

Why is PalJoey taking this thread so personally?
Updated On: 7/8/10 at 04:48 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 7:03pm

Why does winston think he knows more about bipolar disorder- which he admits he doesn't even have- than medical professionals who learned about it in a classroom?

The world may never know.

[uncageg]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 7:44pm

Maybe sometimes when you have the disorder or something like it, you learn a lot about it. I didn't have cancer when my mother had it but I felt I knew just about everything about it while she was going through treatments and eventually died. I am not getting that Winston thinks he knows more than the doctors. He seems to just be sharing his experiences. Just a thought.

[Radioactiveduck]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 8:29pm

For me, Next to Normal hit very very close to home. My family has lost a child and another brother of mine has suffered with pretty severe mental illness for about 8 years now. He has been prescribed almost every medication listed in "My Psychopharmacologist and I" and a lot of things Diana said about her state of mind are very similar to things I've heard him say.

The problem with asking "is N2N true to real life?" is that, every person and every situation is different. That's why treating it can be such a battle. What is true for one isn't true for all.

I could talk about the show forever, but overall...I really enjoyed that mental illness wasn't just a gimmick again. It was the punchline of a joke or a ridiculous dues-ex-machina to wrap the plot up. It was an integral part of a deeply moving story.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 8:33pm

The other thing I love about the show is that people can latch onto whatever aspects resonate for them (whether they are the patient or the partner or family member of a patient) and it normalizes their life. They feel like "wow, this happens to other people and I am not alone." I think that is why it has impacted so many people with what on the surface seems like themes "too intense" for Broadway. People walk away comforted that everyone's life is "next to normal" and no one's life is perfect.

Another reason I also feel the show is groundbreaking.

[Radioactiveduck]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 8:49pm

SPOILER


One HUGE criticism I do have for the show is the way it ends with Diana running away. SO many people think they can just run away from their problems. It's a bad message to send. The same goes for her taking herself off medication.

That's a huge problem in the bi-polar community...people take meds, they start feeling better, they stop taking meds because they feel so good, they get worse and become angry/depressed. And this goes on for years and years and the anger/depression gets worse every time. The endless cycle of ups and downs leads to anger, frustration, and even suicide. My brother has very nearly attempted suicide twice because his life is an endless battle against his own mind.

It makes for a very heroic ending..."All I need is me and my inner strength" and all, but it glorifies unhealthy and self-destructive and behavior.

[uncageg]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 8:56pm

Does it glorify or just depict one aspect of the illness? I wouls say it depicts. I have not seen it, I have only heard it and read the synopsis. I thought about the ending and I actually think the ending is ok. It isn't a pat happy ending.

I have posted before that I don't care for the score/music but I will see it when it gets to Denver this winter. We are the second stop on the tour.

JMO

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 9:05pm

Radioactive, I don't view the ending as happy or even one with closure, but it is real and doesn't neatly tie things up-yet another reason I think people respect the musical. I also don't think Diana is viewed as a hero. She clearly tells her daughter, "Im dancing with death, I suppose. But really who knows?"

She may very well take her life or even go back on meds, but what she is doing is removing herself from a family system where other people were putting their lives on hold to take care of her. In essence, she is assuming complete control over her decisions and putting an end to the guilt and pressure put on her to "be well for others". She is taking excuses away from her husband and daughter.

So from my perspective, she is actually facing her problems. Her family was avoiding their lives and issues by distracting themselves with her. in an interesting twist, I kind of feel like Dan and Natalie are the protagonists and Diana is more of a supporting character that propels them forward by the end.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 10:00pm

As Thelma Ritter says in All About Eve, "Do you want an answer...or an argument?"

Updated On: 7/14/10 at 10:00 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 10:42pm

I didn't address it to you, silly, because I knew I'd get precisely the kind of passive-aggressive non-answer like the one you just gave. I realize, at long last, that you will think everything I post is a viscous attack on you and I will think that everything you post is written by someone not dealing in reality. Alas, neither one of us will really ever know if we're right. I think an informal BWW straw poll would be inconclusive.

But really, I didn't call anyone's opinions on this musical disingenuous or melodramatic, so who is really the one looking to fight in the thread? I know people say this to you all the time, but you clearly don't take it to hear (and coming from me isn't gonna make it any more palatable), but I just can't believe you truly don't realize how you come across on here a good lot of the time. How someone of your intelligence can have such a block when it comes to self-awareness is rather staggering.

[brightasyellow]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 10:44pm

I've heard the cast recording and "My Psychopharmacologist and I" had me nodding my head while I was thinking "yep, tried that med, yep, had those side effects." I'm not sure how I feel about "I Miss the Mountains." She sings that she misses the highs and lows. I may occasionally miss the highs, but the lows are the worst. Absolutely horrendous.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 10:56pm

Obsessions can be detrimental to one's physical and mental health.

Updated On: 7/14/10 at 10:56 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 7/8/10 at 10:58pm

EL OH EL (and also EFF YOU)

But yeah, like I said. We're at an impasse. Both of us here, next to normal.