Questions for Roxy, Dollypop and any other loooong time theater patrons — Page 5

What great replies, Jarethan

To theater nerd and the others who were there during the ACL days, what was it that made that musical hit so big? What shows were running at the same time? I've read that the realism of it was the draw which would make sense since film was also moving towards more regular characters and average looking actors. Without getting too deep, could the end of the war and the emergence of the younger generation being tired of seeing sanitized stories be what propelled it? Or was it just that great on its' own? Was it something that everyone loved?

The week I saw A CHORUS LINE in '75, I also snagged tickets to the original productions of CHICAGO and PIPPIN (both of which were really easy to get tickets to). Since the TKTS booth was already up in Duffy Square, I suspect my ticket to PIPPIN could have been a half price one (that show was already 2 years old). What other shows were playing then? THE WIZ, RAISIN, Hal Prince's environmental CANDIDE, SHENANDOAH, THE ROBBER BRIDEGROOM (briefly).

These shows all had a markedly feel-good tourist-friendly bent, so when CHICAGO and A CHORUS LINE both opened within a month of each other that summer, suddenly folks felt like the grownups had arrived on Broadway. Both shows were thrillingly staged, both had a dark underbelly overlaid with adult humor, and both demanded more from their audiences than the tired businessman model. And as a gay boy, hearing Paul's monologue in A CHORUS LINE was the first time I heard a gay story used for something other than a punchline in a broadway musical. That was revolutionary in 1975.

The first couple years Chorus Line was total madness too. And people did sometimes come across as braggy, because when some people get themselves something that's scarce (like a ticket to a show with a finite number of seats and very high demand), they can seem a little show-offy.

I think all of these impulses can happen at once. People can really want to see it, people can love it, people can be braggy, people can resent the people who are paying the high prices so no matter WHAT they say about getting tickets it is taken in the worst possible way... we're humans with lots of conflicting behaviors.

I remember on an episode of The Jeffersons, George surprised Weezy with something, when she opened the envelope she yelled (very gravelly), "Oh George! Two tickets to A CHORUS LINE!" because they had moved on up and they had the hottest ticket in town. I imagine what their old neighbor might have said about all that.

My post in the thread within the thread (linked by the above link to the PalJoey link!) is me coming from a very Roxy vis a vis Hamilton position. You reach a point sometimes with these things where you're like, okay, enough! Enough hoops, enough obstacles and AT THOSE PRICES.

I did end up seeing the tour with Michael Gruber and Nikki Snelson a couple of years later on my actual birthday and so I did get my itch scratched affordably. And I got myself a nice t-shirt with the angled pic of the line, which I think promised a different perspective on the show that the actual production wasn't interested in delivering. (Not when you think of Baayork in the documentary trying to recreate every bit of minutia right down to where the actor playing Connie was allowed to have been born!).

After Eight said: "If some factory dumps toxic waste into a river, that is not a "natural" evolution. Nor is it a good "change." In fact, it's just the reverse. It's the poisoning of something good and natural."

Like your appearance in a Fun Home thread.

After Eight said: " Simplistic. One has to be cognizant of the kind of change in question. There is evolution that is natural, and that which is artificially imposed. There is good change and bad. One has to acknowledge the difference. If some factory dumps toxic waste into a river, that is not a "natural" evolution. Nor is it a good "change." In fact, it's just the reverse. It's the poisoning of something good and natural.

So let's not be naive here. As far as our theatre is concerned, the "change" we have witnessed is from a magical wonderland to the depths of hell, change poisonous, pernicious, and willed upon us. This is not something to be excused with a shrug and the simple comment, "change is inevitable." It needs to be decried with every fiber of one's being till the end of time, and the perpetrators covered with all the ignominy they deserve."

That's more pathetic than your usual nonsense. First, there is nothing artificial about the change you are describing. In fact, what was artificial was the unfortunate effort to shield musical theatre from the culture in which it exists. Second, of course, that "willed upon" BS is just you being a crazy old cow. Third, dumping chemicals is demonstrably toxic whereas your attempt to use the word to apply to the theatre is just a flimsy effort to occlude the fact that you are using "toxic" as a euphemism for "it's not my taste." Finally, you are of course free to do all the "decr[ying] you want until whenever your plug is pulled; in the meantime the only hope the rest of us can have is that the arthritis in your fingers gets so bad you can't type any more.

Sorry it's taken me a while to respond but I was on the go and viewing things on my Smart Phone. I wanted to give you some decent comments and the tiny keypad always presents a challenge for me to use.

1.. Without a doubt, theater audiences have changed. There was a level of sophistication among the theater-goers that is lacking today. They dressed appropriately and extremely polite. This is because television was still relatively new and entertainment was more than sitting on a couch with a remote control in your hand. A humorous side story--I started going to the theater in the early 60's and my favorite jacket was burgundy colored. It looked nice with gray slacks. I wore it to the theater often but so many people in the lobby were coming up to me and asking questions about how long the show was or whether they could exchange tickets. My next blazer was navy blue.

2. No, discounts didn't become available until the TKTS Booth opened up on Duffy Square in the 70's. I remember buying tickets for the original production of EQUUS and SEESAW there. Of course I bought tickets for other shows at that venue but those two stand out for some reason. I DID stand few quite a number of shows, starting with the original BAREFOOT IN THE PARK.

3. I'm thinking theater is far more accessible these days. The availability of huge discounts helps and Broadway in HD is really quite remarkable. I saw the James Franco OF MICE AND MEN at the local multiplex and enjoyed every bit as much as I would have in the theater. The same has been true for the British STREETCAR. I have three grandchildren, ages 6, 7 and 10 and I take them regularly. They loved ON THE TOWN so much that I had to take them to it a second time. Luckily I was able to get the tickets on TDF and it was affordable.

4. Yes, there has been shows that created even bigger stirs than HAMILTON. The original production of HELLO, DOLLY! was the show to see in the 60's. It was on the cover of LIFE magazine several times (Carol Channing, Mary Martin and Pearl Bailey were featured in different editions) and the line to buy tickets went around the block. The show was featured on many television shows and the columnist Dorothy Kilgallen anointed those of us who were repeat offenders "Dollypops". It's a name I'm happy to retain. There were no message board in those days so no one was posting constant threads about it, though.

5. Yes, I wish we still had writers like Neil Simon, Tennessee Williams, Edward Albee and William Inge. However, I always look forward to a new play by Terrence McNally and CURIOUS INCIDENT knocked my socks off with its brilliance. I wasn't looking forward to BEAUTIFUL but a friend of mine is in the cast and I attended as his guest. I was truly impressed with the show and enjoyed the music. I greatly miss the traditional "Jewish Showtune". Modern composers lean toward pop culture and the "sound" of Broadway has changed. I miss the original;.

6. Boy, oh boy did the quality of stars change with the times. There are plenty of good actors on stage today but they don't come close to Ethel Merman, Gwen Verdon, John Raitt, Alfred Drake, Zoe Caldwell, Rosemary Harris, Christopher Plummer or my beloved Carol Channing. Patti LuPone and Bernadette Peters are about as close to being Golden Age stars as we can get. Tony Yazbeck may very well enter that inner circle soon.

7. Oh yes, prices are higher these days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have tickets stubs from the Opening Night of HELLO, DOLLY! and they were $9.90 for 5th row center! Enough said.

8. The moment of stage that had the greatest impact on me was the moment the horse drawn trolley pulled onto the St. James Theater and Carol Channing stepped off it. Something undefinable happened inside me and I went from being a "theater-goer" to a "theater-lover". Of course, when Carol appeared at the top of the staircase in the second act, I went ballistic--as did everyone else in the house on January 16, 1964. For the record, I saw the original production of HELLO, DOLLY! 74 times. I'm welcoming the upcoming revival but realize it could never be as good as the original. I hope to God it works.

9. DOLLY. We need the joy and happiness that cascaded over the footlights in the original production.

I'd like to add that I miss the old sound systems of old Broadway--when mikes were at the foot of the stage. The current trend of over-amplified voices creates serious problems fo me. Why do we have to be blasted out of our seats at shows like IF/THEN or KINKY BOOTS? I've had my hearing tested and I'm fine. I can hear every not at the Philharmonic or the opera, but IF/THEN actually caused me pain. I would have walked out of the show except a friend of mine was in it and we were going to dinner afterwards. PS- He took one look at my face after the show and knew I had problems with it.

Updated On: 2/20/16 at 01:15 PM

How sweet!

Thanks for turning this thread around, Dollypop.

"Most of you have mentioned the twofer coupons. How were they obtained? Did all shows offer them or is it like today where only certain shows participate?"

They were distributed to stores, restaurants, libraries, and were easily accessible to the public. That was their intent! Sellout smashes had no need for them to drum up business, but as their runs progressed and business waned, they too used them.

I kept a host of them as souvenirs of that wonderful era of theatregoing. I confess it's not a little saddening to look through them now. Could over a half a century have flown by so quickly? Apparently, since it did. And to think of the distance traveled from there to here... But let's not get into that!

Anyhow, they provide some interesting --- and amusing --- insights into the time. Twofers came in an assortment of colors, many with a quote of a review for the show. Some printed the show's logo: How to Succeed, Sweet Charity, The Star-Spangled Girl. Very cute. They listed the dates for which they were valid. They were not good for all performances. Many excluded Saturdays and most excluded the first rows of the orchestra. The discount was not always 50%, either. Carnival, orch reg price, $8.60, twofer price $4.80; Sweet Charity, $9.50/$5.50. It's interesting to note the difference in regular prices for different performances. Tenderloin, orch Mon-Thu eves: $8.35. Wed. mat: $4.80.; How to Succeed, $8.80/$4.80; Mary, Mary, $6.90/$4.80. If you sat in the balcony, you could get really good deals with a twofer: Wait Until Dark, $1.50; The Impossible Years, $1.75; Here's Love, $1.80...

Updated On: 2/21/16 at 08:23 AM

I kept a host of them as souvenirs of that wonderful era of theatregoing.

That's lovely. You'll always have your mothball-scented memories.

I still work as a substitute and find that twofers are readily available in school libraries and faculty lounges.

Updated On: 2/21/16 at 08:15 PM

Hogan, thank you for responding to After Eight. I just can't any more.

D.o.l.l.y.p.o.p., yeah, what is up with the blasting sound these days? My husband and I have taken to bringing ear plugs whenever we go to live theater because the sound systems make our ears bleed. And if the sound makes OUR ears bleed, in our 60s and 70s, respectively, who is the cacophony intended to benefit?

Jarethan, I eventually came to appreciate CHICAGO more than ACL, but I had to see the former a few times before I warmed up to its cynical vision of human nature and American justice. (I mean I saw it a few times in 1975-6. I didn't have to wait for OJ's Bronco chase.) But I always agreed that the Best Actress Tony should have gone to Gwen Verdon or Chita Rivera. The nominating committee does Broadway no favor when they stack the deck so that one show wins every award!

Speaking of which, one nice thing about lower ticket prices was that even starving young artists could see a hit show multiple times, thanks to TKTS. We saw SWEENEY TODD 12 to 15 times during its original run. I doubt we could do that today.

Updated On: 2/21/16 at 10:48 PM