"Side Show" Preview Thread- Page 3

[Kad]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:17am

Is there precedent for a musical revival with such extensive new material?

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:18am

I bet it won't be eligible for score, but maybe for book. (Sorry, if Hedwig, under the classics rule, which had NEVER been on Broadway, couldn't get a nod, then why should this? It was already nominated.)

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:24am

But Hedwig's score was pre-existing material. This Side Show revival falls more into Newsies/Aladdin/Little Mermaid territory. The question is, is 40% of the Side Show new material written for this production. For the Disney shows they determined that was indeed the case and they were eligible for nomination (with Newsies winning).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Newsies won, only the new material technically won the award, did it not?

[RaisedOnMusicals]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:26am

I never mean to suggest that it would be considered a "new musical" for Tony purposes. I was simply commenting on a review that spent so much time comparing it to the original. I'd be more interested in how it would be reviewed "standing alone", not in comparison to the original. And "revisal" is a good term, as pointed out by another poster.

[haterobics]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:34am

"Is there precedent for a musical revival with such extensive new material?"

Didn't the recent Carrie revival have a lot of updating?

It is interesting that a previously failed show with one "meh" first revival preview has already jumped to Tony talk, heh.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:39am

I think it's just human nature to compare a "remake" with the original.

I mean, if Hollywood remade Gone With the Wind how could a viewer not compare the new Scarlett and Rhett to Leigh and Gable. The new score to Max Steiner's original or the new costumes to Walter Plunkett's fantastic dresses. Wouldn't the main the questions around the remake be, "Why remake it?" "Were the changes succesfully?" "How does this stack up against the original?" You could never ask someone to say, "Well forget about the 1939 film- how does the remake stand on its own- because the reality is it doesn't exist on its own. It would never have been made without the first coming into being.

[smallworld]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:45am

I'm going to be that guy.. Was there a window card available?

[haterobics]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:45am

The big difference is Gone With The Wind is considered a classic that a ton of people saw.

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:48am

Well a problem I have with the classics rule anyway is that this material was NOT previously eligible AT ALL for the Tony-so it should get one chance. That's what I was saying. (I think each show should get one chance.) The difference I think with Side Show is that it was previously nominated. Newsies and Mermaid were not-they are film based. I'm sure Side Show will have its way-but that doesn't mean I agree.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 10:57am

Context for sharing these remarks is hardly irrelevant. This is a theater board, the original SIDE SHOW has been examined, explicated, parsed, touted, trashed and prayed for and over. To attend the first preview of its major revision and (to many) unexpected return to Broadway and not compare the two editions would be a strain. Six months from now, maybe we'll all wipe the original off our frontal lobes, or not. For now, many of us are all locked in a state of comparison. I would be disappointed to not hear subjective takes on how moments in the new version stack up against what was there before. If anything, I want to hear more.

Updated On: 10/29/14 at 10:57 AM

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:14am

Dreaming- I agree with you about not always agreeing with some of these score rulings. I was only guessing how the committee might rule, not how I think things should ideally be.

Side Show was nominated for Best Score, so any carried over material would technically not be nominated if it was eligible and nominated for Best Score this time. You're only giving the new material the chance to be nominated for the first time. I don't know if a voter is able to separate the two and only vote for the new material, but as I understand it, that's how the rule would work, just like it did for Newsies and Aladdin.

[HSky]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:16am

Greased Lightning, I was in Row Q.

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:17am

Also...it's sticky because lyrics are new in places, but the music is not. I think they may say no for that reason.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:24am

Yes, it all depends how the interpret "40% of the score must be new." The Tunnel of Love melody is there, but 100% of the lyrics to the song are new and the setting of the song is new. Plus, it's not like the entire Tunnel of Love sequence is there with new lyrics- they've just taken the main melody and fashioned a new song around it. I want to see Alicia Florrick and Patti Nyholm argue the issue before the Tony committee!

Updated On: 10/29/14 at 11:24 AM

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:34am

Whizzer-they also changed a lot of lyrics to "Come Look at the Freaks" and truncated songs.

I think MAYBE best book nod, but I'm betting they'll say no to score. My gut tells me that (and I adore the show-but I see a definite issue here with the melodies-they changed a lot of lyrics in other songs, too, like "Feelings You've Got to Hide," "Leave Me Alone" and other stuff. I'm not convinced.)

[Kad]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:35am

Newsies and Aladdin had the advantage of being "new" musicals. Side Show has already been nominated, which I have a feeling will be to its disadvantage before the nominating committee.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:38am

'When 'Newsies' won [the Tony for Best Score], only the new material technically won the award, did it not?'

I don't think the Tonys made that distinction, but the fact that its score consisted of at least 50% new material made it eligible. 'Newsies' has about a half-dozen, wholly new songs, but there are many new lyrics for the pre-existing tunes from the movie (i.e., 'Carrying the Banner,' 'Santa Fe'). I believe the Disney musicals (the ones adapted from movies) have always shot for the 50% target, so 'The Lion King,' etc., were eligible for the entire score. However, 'Newsies' is the first such Disney show to win there. (We're not counting 'Aida,' which is an original stage musical.)

The Tonys have been inconsistent. For 'State Fair' (1989), they specifically stated that only 4 of the Rodgers & Hammerstein songs (mostly cutouts) were eligible, much to David Merrick's dismay. But in 1974, the stage adaptation of 'Gigi' had only about 4 new songs, but the whole score was eligible (and won!). In 2003, 'Urban Cowboy' offered a mix of new Jason Robert Brown songs, mixed in with pre-existing country hits, like Charlie Daniels' 'The Devil Went Down to Georgia' and Clint Black's 'The Hard Way.' But ALL the songs were Tony-eligible; I bet it's possible that neither Daniels nor Black know that they're onetime Tony nominees.

If the revised 'Side Show' score is 60% new, it should be Tony-eligible. Whether it makes the cut, only time will tell. It would have to compete with the wholly original scores of 'Finding Neverland,' 'Fun Home,' 'Honeymoon in Vegas,'
'The Last Ship,' 'Dr. Zhivago' and who knows what else?

[ggersten]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:42am

So, I'm going to be Tevye and say "you're both right".
It is fair to compare this revisal to the original - although few people saw the original staging live (but there is YouTube). Since the show did not succeed the first time, it is interesting to note what has been changed and argue about whether the "right" things were changed. Thus, it is fair to ask whether "We Share Everything" or "More Than We Bargained For" would have worked better in this revisal than what has been presented.

However, the current revisal succeeds or fails on its own merit. So, a discussion of what works or doesn't work in this production is valuable to a discussion of this show's success. And reading this comments about Terry suggests that perhaps the problem with the actor in La Jolla (replaced for DC) may be more due to the role. That said, I liked the role just fine in La Jolla, but didn't like the actor.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:43am

Oh yes. I was just using Tunnel of Love as an example. There was barely a single song that didn't have at least one lyric change. I do remember "Feelings You've Got to Hide" had a change in lyric from "Eating humble pie" to something new, among several others in that song. Watching the show last night was like one of those games from Highlights for Children magazines where you had to spot the differences between the two pictures.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:46am

I'm sure it will all just be considered a revival. It's new to us, sure, but I'm not sure the committee has been wearing out their OBC of the show.

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:48am

Whizzer-yes it was like Highlights spot the differences, but I loved it still.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 11:59am

RippedMan, I don't think it will be made eligible by the initiative of the committee. It will be a matter of whether or not the producers decide to petition the committee that the show contains enough new material for new book and score nominations. If they do petition the committee, the members will be forced to examine each and make a ruling.

As Wayman illustrated, they have historical not been consistent regarding these types of rulings.

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 12:05pm

It's even more complicated in this particular case. The show was previously nominated for Best Score. The MUSIC is used in many cases but LYRICS are different. I guess that as much as I love the show I am uncomfortable with a best score nod for a second time when I could recognize the MUSIC a lot of the time. (To me score is still MUSIC and LYRICS.)

[Amy Archer]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 12:12pm

If those lyrics ever won an award, I think I'd want to kill myself.

[dreaming]

Posted: 10/29/14 at 12:26pm

I liked the lyrics. But I think that category will be very hard. You have Jeanine Tesori and Lisa Kron, Jason Robert Brown, Sting, you may get Kander and Ebb in the mix, and Barlow and Kennedy.