Sondheim or Webber? — Page 4

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#76

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 2:44am

Amen...
I don't even know why we bother responding to such stupidity.
And that stupidity has really gotten us off-topic.
And I really liked this thread...because it brought out intelligent conversation.
So who do you like, Sondheim or Webber?!?!?!

#77

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 3:08am

Ah yes, the original topic "Sondheim or Webber?" Since this thread has gotten so far off topic I'll again state my preference. Without a doubt it's Sondheim!

I say that without taking anything away from Webber. "Evita" is one of favorite shows. "Sweeney Todd", however, IS my favorite show. I saw it at the Uris Theatre a few times and I later saw the revival at the Circle In The Square. I had the opportunity to direct it a few years after that and all I can say about is that it's a work of genius.

"Jesus Christ Superstar" is another Webber favorite but, for me, some of his later material left a lot to be desired. I enjoyed the odd song here and there but some of the shows they came from did very little for me. He has written some excellent stuff but my preference, without a doubt, is for the work of Sondheim.

"Smart! And into all those exotic mystiques -- The Kama Sutra and Chinese techniques. I hear she knows more than seventy-five. Call me tomorrow if you're still alive!"

#78

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 3:38am

I agree. ALW's earlier shows are much better than his later shows. I have yet to hear his latest though.
Joseph, Evita and JCS are the three shows of ALW's that I REALLY like.
I like aspects of others.
I love all Sondheim though...

#79

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 5:39am

I was an Andrew Lloyd Webber fan before I began to appreciate Stephen Sondheim's music/lyrics.

My favourite LLoyd-Webber musical is ASPECTS OF LOVE ( which was once described as the most Sondheimesque of all of Webber's work)...and I do like Sondheim's PASSION a lot ( the characters of which probably are more like the leads in a Lloyd Webber musical).

I remember that one time when both appeared on the show HEY, MR. PRODUCER! and wove each other's music into one musical tribute to Cameron's contribution to the musical stage. Stephen used his arguably most popular song SEND IN THE CLOWNS while Andrew played his MUSIC OF THE NIGHT.

I don't see how liking one composer's work reveals one's intellectual level. Neither can I appreciate why one cannot like both the works of two leading contemporary composers who have given musical theatre many great moments!

#80

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 6:16am

well said Jo!
and I am not a fan of Send in the Clowns, but it is Stephen Sondheim's most famous song. He wrote and arranged that (God, but he's rich) for HEY, MR PRODUCER! and I think that together the songs are better than they are on their own. Neither of the songs are anywhere near my favourite by either composer.

#81

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 11:33am

I haven't read through this thread yet, but this seems the most appropirate thread for this post.

I ask you, if the NY Times' movie reviewer (A. O. Scott) can say this of Webber's music in Phantom, one wonders what he might say of Sondheim's music.

"The songs fill your ears, but you are unlikely to find yourself humming any of them after the movie is over (which may, come to think of it, be the only merciful thing about this 'Phantom.')"

Both Forum and Night Music were movie flops, and I admire Sondhiem's work tremendously.

#82

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 8:10pm

Ok, this thread makes me angry by some of the stupidity that has been shown here. There was a post that said something like, "ALW fans must not listen to classical music" or something similar to that. Just because I like ALW does not mean he is all I listen to. And if I didn't know any better and I just joined not knowing anything about musical theatre, I would think Sondheim fans were stubborn and think that Sondheim is the only composer/lyricist worth listening to since everything else sucks. I know that is not true, but attacking another person just because of who they like is childish and idiotic. I like Sondheim too, he is not my favorite, but I like him. I would put Gershwin, Rodgers and Hart/Hammerstein before him but he is great to. Infact, I just bought the dvd of the making of the COMPANY cast recording. Now if you still think that I as well as other ALW fans are simple minded people than you can just shove your opinion right up your butt. Lovingly of course.

"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2

#83

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 8:42pm

In england, the theatre belief is that Phantom has stayed on for so long because thare are so many northerners coming down on thier buses to get a bit of london culture (and see phantom every single time), its popular to say northern england (described perfectly in blood brothers) is a bit bleaker and lacking in culture than the south

#84

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 8:50pm

Bottom line to me is that the two can't be compared. Each is in a class unto themselves. I happen to like both for different reasons, but Sondheim I appreciate more.

Webber is better melodically but suffers from bad lyricists, and Sondheim is better lyrically and has proven to be more commercially accessible when he is writing lyrics to others' music (WSS, GYPSY, for example). That's just my opinion, of course.

#85

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/27/04 at 8:52pm

Webber needs to team back up with Tim Rice, Pronto!

"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2

#86

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 1:04am

I love into the woods.
My fav musical is "Rent" and "Chorus Line". I also LOVE Wicked...but i've never seen it so I cant pass judgement. Also When I wrote all the "I Hate Sondheim" stuff I was in a really bad mood. So sorry if I offended someone I am normally not AS critical...I still dont care for sondheims work, however, Hate is strong becuase there is nothing I really hate.

Also, although ALW is one of my many favourite composers I would have to say that there are aspects of both artisits' work I like and it is therefore impossible to ridicule one. For example, ALW's "Evita" is my least favourite musical, and Sondheims' "Merrily..." is my least favourite. I love "Into the woods" and I love "Whistle Down the Wind".

But I am going to have to stay somewhat neutral in saying "I love Stephen Schwartz".
xoxo
Mal

#87

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 1:33am

Would it be fair to say that I find that most people who prefer Webber, prefer him because his scores and shows are emotionally stimulating, while people who prefer Sondheim prefer him because his scores and shows are intellectually stimulating?

"I've got to get me out of here This place is full of dirty old men And the navigators and their mappy maps And moldy heads and pissing on sugar cubes While you stare at your books."

Updated On: 12/28/04 at 01:33 AM

#88

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 1:36am

aw man webber owuld totally beat sondheim in a match!! dats what im talkin about!

#89

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 3:27am

I disagree with the statement that you "have to choose one." I'm not in favor of having a favorite, and on my list of favorites, Webber's and Sondheim's are equal. They may be different styles, sure, but they also both have great music. I'm not going to limit myself to one because I "have to."

#90

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 7:32am

I agree Spider! The ALW shows i like best have Tim Rice lyrics!
I hope I didn't offend you...I tried to put everything as diplomatically as possible. I do like ALW, I just like Sondheim better.

#91

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:21am

Oh, I think there are more than two types of musical theater alive today.

You can't really narrow it down to Sondheim or Webber though they are probably the best known.

You are forgetting Chiusa, Guettel, etc.

But leaving it at Sondheim vs Webber I'd have to say that Webber has never done much for me. Most of his music is self gratifying in that he doesn't bother to rein himself in and take out the bombast or the extraneous.

While he is occasionally on target, no one alive today in musical theater can match Sondheim. He has his detractors on this board, but time will prove him to be a sustaining force and long after his death people will marvel at his complex harmonies and his ability to yank your heart out with his lyrics

"Life is a lesson in humility"

#92

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:28am

paradox, you didn't offend me. It wasn't you that my post was directed towards. Like I said in another post, I would put Gershwin and Rodgers and Hammerstein/Hart before both Sondeheim and Webber (since both of them took their cue from those who came before them). Also, a little trivia. Sondheim's idol is Oscar Hammerstein and Webber's is Richard Rodgers.

"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2

#93

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 8:52am

nevermind!

"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2

Updated On: 12/28/04 at 08:52 AM

#94

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 11:19am

Merrily is one of the greatest pieces to ever grace the stage.

"Yesterday is done. See the pretty countryside. Merrily we roll along, roll along- catching at dreams."- Merrily we roll along "The living was the prize, the ending's not the story."- Elegies, a song cycle

#95

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 11:59am

I like Sondheim and Lloyd Webber and Bernstein and Brown and LaChiusa and Coleman and Gershwin and Styne and Shaiman and Rahman and Larson and Arlen and Loewe and Bart and Bock and Adler and Ross and Strouse and Rodgers and Rodgers and Wilson and Wilson and Schwartz and Schwartz and Sherman and Sherman and Porter and Berlin and Weill and MacDermott and Flaherty and Menken and Lippa and Finn and Coward and Bricusse and Wildhorn and Simon and Kander and Kern and Hamlisch and Hollman and Lopez and Marx and Forrest and Wright and Shire and Russell and Merrill and Loesser and propbably some others I can't recall at the moment.

Which ones make me intelligent and which ones don't? Which ones am I not allowed to like? Why would anyone start such a close-minded and offensive argument on purpose?

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

Updated On: 12/28/04 at 11:59 AM

#96

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 12:21pm

Box Office,
you mention Into the Woods as being a non original piece by Sondheim. In truth, it's actually very original. With all the Fairy Tales intertwining and connecting, it is a complete original. And let's not forget his other original musicals- Sunday in the Park with George, Pacific Overtures, Anyone Can Whistle, Assasins. Sure, they were collaborations, but they were completely original stories. Now, after that list, name ONE show that ALW has written as an original (and Requiem doesn't count, because it's not a show - it's a Requiem for a man who isn't even dead yet.)

"Do you know what pledge time is, Andrew"? said the PBS Executive. "Yes", Lloyd Webber replied. "My 50th birthday special must be one program that gets done a lot." "No", mused the man from PBS heedlessy. "Not so much. Our Stephen Sondheim Carnegie Hall concert. That's a big one." Spoons, forks and knives seemed suddenly to suspend their motion in horror, all around the table.

#97

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 3:17pm

Saying that one cannot possibly like both Sondheim and Lloyd Webber is like saying that one cannot possibly like both haute cuisine and fast food...ridiculous! I happen to like many shows that both have done (and greatly disliked shows by both as well). Both have heavy play on my computer's CD player while I'm working at my drafting table.

BTW...my haute cuisine/fast food reference is not meant to be representative of how I compare the two composers...just wanted to clarify that.

Updated On: 12/28/04 at 03:17 PM

#98

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 3:25pm

You reminded me of something...I really love Cole Porter's music too.
I dont know now that I really think about it I love everyone...some pieces more than others but...they are great.
Oh and also, the ALW music I love the most has lyrics by Tim Rice. Same with the Elton John/Tim Rice stuff. (Aida, and Lion King) those are my favs to.

#99

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 3:48pm

So what are you if you're not a fan of either? I love lots of musicals, but none by either of those composers would be listed among my favorites.

scooter3843

#100

re: Sondheim or Webber?

Posted: 12/28/04 at 3:57pm

Viet,

In response to your post, I can't really agree. People who cannot be emotionally stirred by Sondheim shows are people with whom I do not wish to associate.

And I'm only kind of kidding.

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

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