Sondheim's "Big 5"
Sondheim's "Big 5"
Rentaholic2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/14/04
#1Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 3:58pm
Curious if there is a general consensus on what Sondheim's top five shows are (for which he wrote both music and lyrics), similar to how there is for R&H. My vote would be:
- Sweeney Todd
- Company
- Sunday in the Park with George
- A Little Night Music
- Into the Woods
I'm sure some would sub in Follies or maybe even Assassins. What do people think?
ElephantLoveMedley
Broadway Star Joined: 10/14/21
#2Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:01pm
I agree that Company, Sunday in the Park, Sweeney Todd, and Into the Woods would certainly fall into a hypothetical "Big 5" for Sondheim. I think the fifth spot could really go between Assassins, Follies, Night Music, Passion, maybe even Forum or Pacific Overtures.
If it were me, the fifth spot would go to Follies.
BETTY22
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/29/13
#3Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:09pm
Follies,
Sweeney Todd,
Company,
Sunday in the Park with George,
Into the Woods
#4Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:11pm
Definitely the five shows that Betty and ELM just brought up... the only question is what order?
Grab your torches, head back to camp. Goodnight.
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#5Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:12pm
With R&H there seems a consensus fit between the "Big 5" shows and "Big 5" scores. That may arguably not be the case with Sondheim.
steve.sometime
Stand-by Joined: 12/11/22
#6Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:19pm
henrikegerman said: "With R&H there seems a consensus fit between the "Big 5" shows and "Big 5" scores. That may arguably not be the case with Sondheim.
"
Exactly. Follies is definitely up there. Why Big 5? It can totally be Big 6 or even Big 7 to loop in Forum. Or more.
#7Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:47pm
I think if you had to narrow down a set of Sondheim’s biggest shows, it’d be a group of four rather than five. It feels like general consensus would include Sweeney, Woods, Company, and Sunday, while the fifth show would be more up for debate.
With that said, I do think Follies would be that fifth show, but the others feel solidly ahead, and there’s definitely argument for other works in its place.
#8Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:57pm
steve.sometime said: "henrikegerman said: "With R&H there seems a consensus fit between the "Big 5" shows and "Big 5" scores. That may arguably not be the case with Sondheim.
"
Exactly. Follies is definitely up there. Why Big 5? It can totally be Big 6 or even Big 7 to loop inForum. Or more."
I'd disagree with that notion. I think we're all starting from a position that Sondheim was a genius and all of his shows were genius, but we're trying to narrow it down here. By the time you get to "top 7," that's almost half of his shows!
It is interesting, however, that there is such a clear consensus on a Sondheim Top 4, but that 5th slot seems WIDE open.
pethian
Leading Actor Joined: 5/23/22
#9Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 4:58pm
"It can totally be Big 6 or even Big 7 to loop inForum. Or more."
Yes, it's easily a Big 7, adding FORUM and FOLLIES to the five listed above.
Rentaholic2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/14/04
#10Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 5:26pm
Jeff Tupolski said: "I think if you had to narrow down a set of Sondheim’s biggest shows, it’d be a group of four rather than five. It feels like general consensus would include Sweeney, Woods, Company, and Sunday, while the fifth show would be more up for debate.
With that said, I do think Follies would be that fifth show, but the others feel solidly ahead, and there’s definitely argument for other works in its place."
Yes, I think you're correct. I had no trouble filling the first four slots, but deliberated quite a bit about the fifth. My personal favorite for #5 would be Assassins, but objectively, I think A Little Night Music is sort of perfect. Follies has a more thrilling score, but a less ironclad book in my opinion. Forum is also so well written that it's hard to mess up, but it's score is somewhat forgettable. Which is all to say, after you get past those first four, you could debate the merits of the rest for eternity.
¿Macavity?
Broadway Star Joined: 1/29/16
#11Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 5:32pm
The Big 5 of R&H is based on what their biggest hits were, so should that same logic be applied here? In that case, Company, Into the Woods, Sweeney Todd, Forum, and Night Music would be the answer, as I believe they're his only works (that he did both music and lyrics) to have recouped in their original stagings - though if I recall correctly, Into the Woods and Sweeney recouped on tour. I don't know though, with his shows a lot seems to come down to cultural significance (like Sunday) and personal preference. I couldn't possibly pick a definite 5.
#12Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 5:36pm
Company
Sweeney Todd
Into The Woods
Merrily We Roll Along
Follies
The idea is to work and to experiment. Some things will be creatively successful, some things will succeed at the box office, and some things will only - which is the biggest only - teach you things that see the future. And they're probably as valuable as any of your successes. -Harold Prince
Rentaholic2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/14/04
#13Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 5:41pm
Dylan Smith4 said: "Company
Sweeney Todd
Into The Woods
Merrily We Roll Along
Follies"
Well you're just flat out wrong 
#14Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 8:58pm
Lol. I mean, I do not rate Merrily at all except that it led to Sunday and Bernadette’s ‘Not a Day Goes By’ (hoping the upcoming revival will help change that). But it seems a bit cheeky to invite people to give their thoughts and then shut them down haha.
When my goodbye post was removed: “but I had a great dramatic finish!!!!”
Owen22
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/24/11
#15Sondheim's
Posted: 1/11/23 at 9:29pm
I'm a little confused about your question. Is it what we think is Big 5 are or what posterity deems his Big 5. For instance, I'm pretty sure Sweeney Todd will go down as his Magnum Opus. But personally, it's way down on my list of favorite Sondheim musicals
Updated On: 1/11/23 at 09:29 PM
ErmengardeStopSniveling
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/20/18
#16Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 9:33pm
Company
Follies
ALNM
Sweeney
Merrily
I feel bad leaving out his post-Prince work (which is also exceptional), but I'll stick to the rules. I was never a massive WOODS fan, but I've grown to appreciate it more after this revival.
#17Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/11/23 at 9:35pm
I adore both Company & Sweeney Todd. That's his Top 2, IMO, and both as Sondheim's biggest successes. After that Into the Woods. Sunday's score is gorgeous but has never had the success as Company & Sweeney Todd. Fifth would be Follies(IMO).
A Chorus Line revival played its final Broadway performance on August 17, 2008. The tour played its final performance on August 21, 2011. A new non-equity tour started in October 2012 played its final performance on March 23, 2013. Another non-equity tour launched on January 20, 2018. The tour ended its US run in Kansas City and then toured throughout Japan August & September 2018.
#18Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/12/23 at 8:39am
When it comes to the complete works of Sondheim I find brilliant material in all his shows, but you’re either a blue-book or a pink-book person, and I’m Blue all the way.
rattleNwoolypenguin
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/11/11
#19Sondheim's "Big 5"
Posted: 1/12/23 at 10:51am
Follies while wonderful I still wouldn’t put in top 5 cause James Goldman’s book is not nearly as strong as the James Lapine and Hugh Wheeler books.
I think that’s why Sunday, ITW, Night Music and Sweeney Todd are top 4 cause they are each the perfect seamless merger of score and book.
I would put Company in Top 5 over Follies too.
#20Sondheim's
Posted: 1/12/23 at 11:12am
Into the Woods, I *thnk* was my first Sondheim show through the video recording at my public library. I love that show, and as I grow older it seems to me to be his most approachable, introduction to his works. Partly because its done so often by schools, community theatres, etc. Forbidden Broadway got it right with their parody "Into the Words". You even get that with the additions he wrote for the original London Follies, which I believe he was writing around the same time as Into the Woods.
Top 5 for me are all Blue Book, except one (in no particular order)
Sweeney Todd, A Little Night Music, Follies, Pacific Overtures, Sunday in the Park with George
MrsSallyAdams
Broadway Star Joined: 11/12/13
#21Sondheim's
Posted: 1/12/23 at 4:47pm
Out of curiosity I visited IBDB to see how many performances (excluding previews) Sondheim’s shows have had on Broadway.
1835 = 3 productions of FORUM
1284 = 4 productions of COMPANY
1223 = 3 productions of INTO THE WOODS
1219 = 2 productions of NIGHT MUSIC
1094 = 3 productions of SWEENEY (with a fourth on the way.)
814 = 3 productions of SUNDAY (the third being a limited run)
791 = 3 productions of FOLLIES
Any idea where to pull similar data for London productions?
threepanelmusicals.blogspot.com
#22Sondheim's
Posted: 1/12/23 at 4:58pm
If it's to be SONDHEIM'S Big 5, then the score must be paramount to all other considerations, like a crappy book.
By that reckoning, I'd list
SWEENEY TODD
A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC
PACIFIC OVERTURES
SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE
& COMPANY as my top.
FOLLIES gets in with 6.
Videos