Spiderman Preview Thread!- Page 15

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 5:51am

Comparing theater goers who talk about shows during previews to vultures is sickening. The point of previews is to put the show in front of an audience, test the material in front of people, make some money, and generate word of mouth before the reviews come out. I feel like Broadway producers have forgotten this...

If a show is bad, people have a right to have their opinions about it. It was their money they spent on the ticket. If they want to tell all of their friends and family how bad it was, that's their deal. The same thing goes if they liked it.

Good shows usually get good buzz. Bad shows... well, people get outed as "vultures" apparently. It's a sad thing. The whole point is similar to a film screening. Funny though, at film screenings they ask for the audience's opinions... Back in the day, if a show was bad, it didn't open, or closed soon after it did. Don't tell me word of mouth didn't affect some of the great flops we all know and love. Yes, the internet wasn't around for some of the biggest disasters, but you know what? Carrie didn't cost $65 million dollars.

Nowadays, things can run regardless. And production teams get pissy when people judge their "work" before it's frozen.

Can this show just shut down and go on it's arena tour that they already have planned to recoup the money because they know they wont make it back on Broadway? I wonder if the Staples Center has any open time-slots.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 5:58am

Oh god give it a rest about paying previews, reviews before opening etc, or at least do it on another thread. This topic comes up everytime a major show opens, everything has been said before.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 6:00am

I don't think producers have forgotten anything. I think that just in this age of instant information, WE have forgotten how powerful our words are. It's not just telling our family and friends what we thought, it's telling the world....and telling them mighty fast. I don't think the art form knows how to keep up that.

In less than 12 hours since it started its first preview, there are 15 PAGES (with what 20 comments a page?) of opinions being read by numberless people.

[Q]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 6:16am

"In less than 12 hours since it started its first preview, there are 15 PAGES (with what 20 comments a page?) of opinions being read by numberless people."

Which is worth an unpaid fortune in publicity. Many, many producers would kill to have that kind of immediate response to their product.

Of course, they would also prefer the chatter to be positive, but thems the chances you take.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 6:25am

Definitely, I said earlier the door swings both ways for positive or negative opinions.

And note: I'm not of the camp that no one should voice their opinion on what they have seen...as long as they understand that things can change.

I actually broke down and purchased a ticket for this. My morbid curiosity has gotten the better of me. Since doing so, I've battled conflicting thoughts: WHY did I give them my money, vs. I can't wait to see it for myself. I'm not seeing it until Xmas day, so I suspect much of what WILL be fixed will have been fixed by then.

[Boq101]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 6:41am

If people stopped paying full price for previews the price for those shows would go down.

It's that simple. Stop asking producers to lower prices when they're only interested in turning a profit, it makes you sound stupid.

[mrscoreymontieth]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 6:46am

Nah, blaxx, they have the Green Goblin on cherry picker singing about how no one, not even Spider-Man is going to bring him down. End of Act One


...LMFAO i just laughed harder than anything ive seen on here.

[dancinfan]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 6:55am

For the record, since I'm not sure anyone else has said it here, last night's first public performance was also it's first full dress runthrough. I know that's happened before in Broadway history. I'm just pointing out that that's bad planning by many people, Taymor included.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 7:01am

Right...we should all collectively stop going to previews. That'll happen.

I don't think they SHOULD charge the same amount for previews that they do for performances....but most of the time, the audience DOES get a quality performance....just one in transition.

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 7:12am

Can someone type or scan from the Playbill the listing of who plays which role, and who covers which role?

It would be greatly appreciated!

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 7:17am

Back in the day, producers didnt charge full tilt for previews. Sad we let that tradition go, but considering how desperate everyone is to turn any kind of buck when the budgets get this atmospheric, I'm not surprised.

And perhaps someone can explain why, when a show is good, posting things about it is okay, but when it's this bad, you're a terrible person who clearly doesnt understand how theatre works and you should be exiled to some place for theatre poo-poo heads. I mean, hey, they've only had *almost a decade* to put this puppy together, with a rehearsal period just about as long as a Chekov production in Moscow, with a budget that would underwrite some small European countries for a decade or two. I dont know about you guys, but watching the 60 Minutes piece on this, I was a little flabbergasted by Taymor's saying "No one wants to see a $25 million SPIDERMAN". Gosh, Julie, I dunno. Sometimes limits, no matter how outrageous, are a good thing.

FWIW, I understand Marvel Comics also put their foot down on it and threatened to pull the rights to the character if the show wasnt up and running by end of year. Seems they've been pretty patient with this embarrassment, and now they want that to stop. Can you blame them? This isnt gonna do anything for their bottom line, not until the unlikely moment that the show turns a profit. I'm actually amazed they tolerated it for as long as they did.

And BTW: if I'm shelling out that kind of money for a ticket, damn right I'm gonna talk about it, good or bad. You dont like it? Deal with it.

[billynj]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 7:53am

The weave scene looked awesome on 60 mins

Previews were always half price back in the day, and if you are
running a $25-60 million show you can afford to sell your previews for 1/2 price

Julie should go see Wicked Tuesday night, understand the tourist magic that Wicked holds every night, tweak Spiderman to fit that and slowly change the show to the winner that NYC Broadway needs right now, can Broadway really afford for this show to not work? Broadway needs another Cats 1980. Phantom 90's . Producers 00 ..can Spiderman be the next big one? let us hope so ..rising tide lifts all boats..We need it

and for an ending please have people walk out of the theater happy, life sucks enough these days with out depressing people and families with a $140 dark ending

[Kalimba]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 7:55am

Julie Taymor has no problem spending this obscene amount of money because it's NOT hers. Maybe she should also concentrate on what she does best (design) and leave the book writing to a professional. Personally I think she should be run out of town.

Are they offering another set of tickets for those who paid last night to see what was more or less of a run through?

[peachesr]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 8:20am

I admire the ambition behind the show and it looks stunning from what I've seen of the footage but the thing is, once all the technical problems have been ironed out and even with some changes made, is it really just going boil down to a case of it being style over substance? Because from what I can gather the central characters are just not being developed and are rather 2-dimensional. If there's no chance of that happening I think I'd rather sit through Cirque de Solei.

[After Eight]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 8:49am

As I already voiced my thoughts on the show's specifics, I won't focus on that here.

But there is one other aspect of this production which I find bothersome, one that extends beyond just this show, and beyond just Broadway, and that is the responsibilities of an artist to the expectations of an audience. I realize that artists are special and have special gifts. The greatest artists have their own unique vision, and we should be grateful for that, since, otherwise, we would not have great art. But at what point should an artist be allowed to indulge his/her vision when vast amounts of money are involved, and when time is a luxury the commercial theatre really can't afford? At some point, the paying customers have got to be brought in to pay for the show, and the artist has to be able to deliver a finished product to that public. That's why the poster who brought up David Merrick was right. A strong hand is necessary to tell the creative team to shape up and get it done. And to get it done right. That strong hand didn't seem in evidence last night.

And yet another troubleseome thing is the artist's responsibility to an audience's expectations as to content. If an artist decides to turn Spiderman into a musical, then he/she cannot not just use the title Spiderman to get the audience into the theatre to see a musical about a character named Arachne. If Taymor & co. were so interested in Arachne, they should have called it "Arachne," and left out Spiderman altogether. But then the show wouldn't have had the immense hype, hoopla, expectations, and most importantly, box-office sales. So what the creative team displayed here, in my opinion, was a word that appeared on the blackboard in the classroom scene in the show: Hubris. They showed a disregard for what the audience came to see in order to gratify their own vision, thereby disappointing audiences who bought tickets based on other expectations. And to me, that is just not right.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:14am

Ive not seen the show so this just my opinion on what ive read, clips etc
Previews will always be bumpy, its trial and error, this has been going on for a long long time and all the posts in the world about ‘the audience should not be paying to see unfinished work’ or ‘preview costs are too high’ etc won’t change a damn thing.

It’s a shame when people who know little about theatre end up accidently booking for a preview but it’s not those people who we hear moaning about it, the ones who annoy me the MOST are people on boards like this who watch a preview that is bumpy etc and then moan about it. You ALL know on here what previews are, you know the technical complications of this show and what they are attempting etc so if you chose to see a preview (especially a first one) and then thought twice about it when the show was not perfect then you have nobody to blame but yourselves.
You are not inexperienced when it comes to theatre so you know by rushing to the ticket office and booking for an early preview is a gamble, the show you will see will not turn out to be the show that opens to the press.

As for the music ive heard about 4 songs now and I really like it but im really in to the whole moody rock/pop thing, I think that is just going to come down to a matter of a taste. A few people on other boards have put they enjoyed the music.

The book is something that I can’t comment on but it seems to be everyone’s sore point so I will take everyone’s word that it’s problematic. They have 6 weeks of previews to work on that and im sure they will do a lot of work. Nobody involved with this production is stupid and they all know they need to get the show in the best possible state to keep it running. I think we will see some major work done to the show over the next 6 weeks.

Im not defending the show as I have not seen it, I would watch it on my next trip over but it would not be my top pick, however I think people just need to let this show do what it needs to do before shouting it’s doomed after its first public performance. So many new elements are clearly getting a first outing at that theatre and that needs to be taken in to account.

Also EVERYONE who purchases a ticket to a show should have the right to comment on the show of course because members of the Spiderman Team will be reading over everything on all boards etc to get an idea of what is working and what is not. Nowadays it’s not about audience response in the venue its about what they post on places like this after they get homes, that’s what Taymor and the rest will be looking at, clearly many on here have some great ideas about what could be cut.....and I bet we see that happen. I know when my company opens a new show in the UK it’s through places like this and other theatre sites that we look through and listen to what people are saying so we can see what we have to change.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:26am

Oh and Riedel has chimmed in of course, i think he's found his new Taboo

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/bugs_beset_spider_man_on_stage_NfctVtDnuFc5Lv0XNc8f0J

[Katurian2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:30am

Don't compare the two just yet... Taboo was actually quality... sort of. At least the cast was good.

That being said, can anyone who SAW the show please elaborate on the villains in it? How much do we see of the ones other than Green Goblin? And do they really change the Uncle Ben death so much it's distracting?

[julesboogie]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:32am

"Julie should go see Wicked Tuesday night, understand the tourist magic that Wicked holds every night..."


NO NO NO PLEASE GOD NO MORE! One Wicked is more than enough. Soulless dribble.

Crew Dude,

I feel like youre blanketing all shows because of what happened last night at Spiderman. Alot of shows are up and ready to go at previews. In some cases only minor changes are made to the book. As i stated before, the creatives are HOPING that that night will be the finished product. However things can need tweeking. I get that last night was unacceptable. I agree. But that doesnt mean the entire process is flawed. It just seems a little unfair to punish the lot.

You are saying the the meaning of the word "preview" has changed. Would you feel better if it had a different name? Say a "TRY-OUT?" And again im asking how youd fix the problem. Your solution is to just not pay for, or pay less for previews. But since you know how the money works, you know that that cant be an option. How would shows get advances going? Help me out here. I just want to hear your solution.


Oh and yes as a newbie its so much easier for oldheads on here to attack your validity, than your post. Thats not my intention. But since you seem to be so adamant, i just wanna hear the argument thru.

[trentsketch]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:33am

It feels like a lot of the complaints are coming from misplaced expectations. As in, when the show was announced as a new and original adventure of Spider-Man, a lot of people thought they were getting an adaptation of the first movie. I have a feeling, with some technical tightening and revised dialog, the show is going to work real well by opening.

In theory, I like the idea of the Geek Chorus and an expanded mythology of Spider-Man. It intrigues me. It sounds like theater. Smart theater. Challenging theater. Not a movie. Not a comic book. Theater. While I personally joke all the time about Taymor not having an edit button in her programming, at the very least she knows how to create a cohesive vision. She will find a way to balance the new conventions with the Spider-Man experience and present a singular conceit on Broadway. There will be no in between with this show; it will be polarizing, and people will say it's spectacular or horrendous.

[Katurian2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:35am

Reidel:

"Stunned audience members were left scratching their heads over the confusing plot -- when they weren't ducking for cover from falling equipment and dangling actors at the Foxwoods Theatre on West 42nd Street, some said.

At various points, overhead stage wires dropped on the audience..."



He makes it sound like a work hazard? Was it really or is this just great exaggeration? Also noted the omission of the fact that people booed the heckler. Nice.....

[BroadwayBound115]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:43am

The sad thing about these posts on this board is this: the show is very entertaining visually. The kinks in the effects can be worked out and smoothed with more performances/previews/run-throughs. The thing that looks like it needs the most work, based on the complaints from people who saw the show, is the book and score. I feel like until they get the technical side worked out, they can begin to pay attention to the book and the score's flaws. This also poses a problem. They may have to resort to modifying the material around the set because they will have taken all that time to work out the problems, that adding anything more technically, could set them back even more. Take all the time you need, Spiderman. Like I said earlier, I hope any show realizes their flaws and takes the time to correct them. But also put me on the boat that says ticket prices during previews should be lower. That's not a huge request.

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:44am

It's hilarious to me that Michael Reidel is trying to hide the fact that he was actually at the show himself.

He structured that entire column to appear as if it was based on the audience being universally upset with all the various problems, but most of those accounts are probably from his own experience, which of course would lack any credibility given his incessant desire to kill the show from day one.

He also fails to mention that the audience collectively booed the woman who yelled out to complain, instead portraying her as being indicative of the entire crowd's reaction.

Updated On: 11/29/10 at 09:44 AM

[indytallguy]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 9:50am

Julesboogie asks an interesting question: is there a better name than preview? In the computer software world, the closest equivalent might be Beta. You understand you're getting a fairly complete product, but are likely to encounter some unexpected bugs. Of course, most Beta versions are released for free, but any software does do upgrades on their paid products once additional bugs are found.

I recently bought a ticket for a open rehearsal of the Philharmonic for $25. That's far less than the seats for the actual show, but I understand going in that it won't be the real show either. In fact I know I would paid money to see rehearsals of just about any theatre performance because I'm interested in the process of how shows get developed.

Seems like some of te major questions on this topic are (1) is there a better name for previews? (2) Regardless of what they are called, what does the public have a right to expect and what communication/info should be offered to them to manage those expectations at the time of purchasing a ticket? and (3) What's the fair price for someone to see a work-in-progress?

[alliez92092]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:02am

Reaction from Jenn Damiano and Reeve Carney. Well, at least they feel good about it?

http://www.broadway.com/shows/spider-man-turn-off-the-dark/buzz/154428/spider-man-stars-reeve-carney-jennifer-damiano-really-excited-after-first-broadway-performance/