Spiderman Preview Thread!- Page 16

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:03am

>> "at the very least she knows how to create a cohesive vision"

I gather you've never seen the uncut version of ACROSS THE UNIVERSE. TITUS was a slapdash affair with so many "visual metaphors" that it made no sense at all unless you already knew the play. And I doubt many people here saw GREEN BIRD, which, lovely as it was, was a mess with no through-line, just a lot of "Aint this cool?" moments.

Sorry, no. She's a genius when it comes to ritual theatre design, but I would have to think long and hard before turning a 65-mil production over to her.

[denali.fire]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:10am

It doesnt look like this show will really open on Jan 11. From what I have read it really needs a lot of work....I saw all the cancelled shows tuesdays and wed Matinees ..... No cast recording scheduled yet either. I think I shall wait to get tickets.
Seems like this show might be renamed:
Spider-Man: This theater should be Dark.

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:11am

If this has been mentioned, my apologies. I have been trying to read everything posted since page 13 as I stopped reading last night around that page.

Regarding reviews of theatre, cd's and movies...Someone posted that cd's and movies are reviewed the day they come out. Well of course they are. They are a finished product. My cd is not going to change after I buy it nor is the movie going to be different from opening day to day 3 or 10. What I do agree with is that theatre preview performances should be cheaper since they are tweaking the show. People seeing previews up until the show is "frozn" may not be seeing the exact same show as the critics and opening night audience. On the flip side of that, preview audiences may get to see scenes or hear songs that may not end up in the production presented to critics. But still, I think the preview performances should be discounted. I was reading the comments after Riedel's column and feel bad for that person that had the discount ticket that the show would not honor for another performance. The person was told that he/she had to pay full price even though the show the ticket was for had been cancelled. Seems they may have honored the full priced tickets though. JMO

[leefowler]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:18am

10 random thoughts about Spiderman last night (with spoilers, perhaps)

(1) Whenever someone walks out on stage attached to a wire, they're going to fly. If they have a ring around their waist, with several wires attached, they're going to fly over the audience. If there's no wire, they won't fly. For the most part, the flying isn't very impressive, except for the battle scene between Spider-Man and Green Goblin. The flying in American Idiot is much classier. And don't EVEN bring up Peter Pan. Or KA.

(2) Why do reporters in comic book musicals dress and talk like it's 1943?

(3) I thought the tone would be similar to the more gritty comic book movies, like "The Dark Knight". Rather, they've gone fore a sensibility more akin to the last two Batman movies that Joel Schumacher directed.

(4) People used to always talk about how great it would be for rock and pop writers to create their own Broadway shows. Do we still feel that, after Capeman (Paul Simon) Tarzan (Phil Collins) Dance Of The Vampires (Jim Steinman) and now this?

(5) Did Julie Taymor really think it would look cool to stage the cage match with Peter Parker battling what looks like a huge plastic sex toy with a thyroid problem?

(6) When faced with the most pivotal moment in the show (Peter Parker getting bitten on the neck by a radioactive spider) is it particularly inventive to dangle a spider on a long string from the top of the proscenium? Especially when said spider looks like it was purchased from a magic shop in Chinatown.

(7) Having just seen "The Nutcracker In 3D", it was surprising to see two awful musicals in a row that feature an annoying Rastafarian drummer.

( Whenever a set piece came out drawn in "comic book style", I kept thinking of the TV musical version of "It's A Bird, It's A Plane, It's Superman".

(9) Big, complicated action scenes are actually very well suited for big budget movies. Big budget musicals...not so much

(10) If Julie Taymor is a perfectionist, why isn't Spider-Man perfect?

[Kad]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:20am

"It’s a shame when people who know little about theatre end up accidently booking for a preview but it’s not those people who we hear moaning about it, the ones who annoy me the MOST are people on boards like this who watch a preview that is bumpy etc and then moan about it. You ALL know on here what previews are, you know the technical complications of this show and what they are attempting etc so if you chose to see a preview (especially a first one) and then thought twice about it when the show was not perfect then you have nobody to blame but yourselves."

There's a difference between a first preview in which there's a 5-minute scene change glitch... and a first preview running nearly four hours with five lengthy technical stops.

That isn't a "first preview". That's a tech run-through, in front of paying audience member who probably, no matter what they know about previews, did not plan on a sitting around waiting for Spider-Man to get back in the air over and over and over again.

The preview process is to make sure everything runs smoothly and that the show is working cohesively. It's a time for minor artistic adjustment, or at most the cutting or replacing of a set, costume, or song. If you're in front of a paying audience, you should be ready to present a product worthy of the admission. Not apologizing and presenting a 3 hour and 44 minute tech run without an ending.

[jagfkb]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:32am

My thoughts:

I was offered tickets for free tonight, and being it's what it is, I jumped at the oppertunity. Even after experiencing the 3 3/4 hours it was (To be fair, the show didn't start until 7:00, and the intermission alone was 45 minutes, in addition to the stops), I still don't know where I stand. Is it really just crass and uncultured spectacle, or is it something which works on a multitude of levels, appealing to both the intelligent an the common. Upon further review, my view is this: there are parts which are brilliant, there are parts which need work, but overall, it very well may be one of the best shows of the season.

The Brilliant: The design. The last time my mouth literally fell to the floor when watching a show was Mary Poppin's brilliant array of special effects back when it previewed four years ago. Truly the star of the show, brilliant doesn't even begin ti describe the visual feast on display here. I almost felt I cheated them for not paying. Favorite moments: the opening scene of Arachne with female ensemble members swinging back and forth, literally weaving a large golden curtain (Think Jane Krakowski in Nine, only multiplied by seven, and you get the picture). The LCD screens which dominate the stage in Act Two, the aerial battle during the Act One Finale, as well a a Chrystller Building which literally unfolds from the rafters. Arachne's Act Two power ballad which she belts while being flown all over the theatre (She enters from the first row of the balcony and dramatically swings downward towards the stage, perhaps the greatest entrance in the history of theatre). If this doesn't win every design award, people truly just despise this show beyond all level of reason.

The overall structure/ Greek mythology: Relating back to Taymor's classical training, the allusions back to greek tragedy not only brilliantly structure the show, but actually make a musical version of Spiderman work. The Geek chorus (I'll admit, a plot device which should be both tamed back in the first half, and expanded upon in the second, it almost seems as if they are preparing their own report on Spiderman, an excellent way to finish off the show), even the structuring of the plot to resemble the Greek hero journey. Though it needs clearing up and modifying (something I'm sure we'll see soon, once the technical effects are hammered out) it's in the end what can make the show work.

I don't have time to commentate on the rest right now, though I will admit the score (while beautiful to listen to) isn't the most tuneful, it has it's definite moments. Overall, a strong 7 1/5 out of 10. Remember, it's a preview of the most expensive musical in history, if you go expecting perfection, you might as well expect rainbows to fly out of your ass.

[Marianne2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:34am

leefowler-You just made me laugh out loud with your #5 on the list.

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:44am

The Broadway Critic is pretty positive about the 1st preview:

http://broadwaycritic.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/1st-preview-of-spiderman-turn-off-the-dark/

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:48am

So basically, the consensus of this thread is that this show garners the same response as every other show during previews on Broadway. Some people like it and some people don't. And some people were going to hate it no matter what.

Got it.

[finebydesign]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:52am

"And I doubt many people here saw GREEN BIRD, which, lovely as it was, was a mess with no through-line, just a lot of "Aint this cool?" moments."

Green Bird was insanity. Other than being painfully boring and abstract the thing I recall most was that an orchestra sat in wait the entire show only to play for a bizarre final (out of no where) number.

I've seen a LOT of Julie's stuff and the big problem (outside of Lion King which she didn't really write) is she strays far far away from the traditional narrative path (ALWAYS). Its possible she is channeling opera-style storytelling...who knows but it never seems to work on film or on a musical stage. There are rough patches in all of those films. Frida is the most successful but one can see how that could have gone really badly.

All said Julie Taymor is an original and I WISH there were more like here.
Updated On: 11/29/10 at 10:52 AM

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:53am

Kad a preview is to work out kinks and problems, Spiderman was clearly going to have more than most with it standing as the most technical show on Broadway, people on here know that, people still booked, nobody can pretend its a shock that the show had tech issues which stopped the show. Everybody is reacting like it's never happened before and Spiderman and the producers should burn in hell because they did what so many other shows have done before. It's a new set of challenges for Spiderman, nothing like this has ever been done on Broadway, with new challenges will come new problems, that's what happened. It happened during Titanic as well, Gone with the Wind ran 4 and a half hours on first preview and so on and so on. You want to see a finished show, dont book for a preview.

and to this


"(1) Whenever someone walks out on stage attached to a wire, they're going to fly. If they have a ring around their waist, with several wires attached, they're going to fly over the audience. If there's no wire, they won't fly. For the most part, the flying isn't very impressive, except for the battle scene between Spider-Man and Green Goblin. The flying in American Idiot is much classier. And don't EVEN bring up Peter Pan. Or KA"

Well damn, if only they could fly for real without those pesky wires. And from everyone elses accounts the flying was stunning.


"(2) Why do reporters in comic book musicals dress and talk like it's 1943?"

Because they do, that's the comic book style, just like people bursting in to song in musicals, it's what they do. The show has done the same, it's sticking to it's roots, that's no bad thing.

"(3) I thought the tone would be similar to the more gritty comic book movies, like "The Dark Knight". Rather, they've gone fore a sensibility more akin to the last two Batman movies that Joel Schumacher directed."

Well thats you own expectations, nobody said anything about the show going down the Dark Night route in tone

"(4) People used to always talk about how great it would be for rock and pop writers to create their own Broadway shows. Do we still feel that, after Capeman (Paul Simon) Tarzan (Phil Collins) Dance Of The Vampires (Jim Steinman) and now this?"

Yes, why not?, because a few have failed? (also the score had very little to do with the failiure of a few of them)

"(5) Did Julie Taymor really think it would look cool to stage the cage match with Peter Parker battling what looks like a huge plastic sex toy with a thyroid problem?"

Can't comment

(6) When faced with the most pivotal moment in the show (Peter Parker getting bitten on the neck by a radioactive spider) is it particularly inventive to dangle a spider on a long string from the top of the proscenium? Especially when said spider looks like it was purchased from a magic shop in Chinatown.

Can't comment

(7) Having just seen "The Nutcracker In 3D", it was surprising to see two awful musicals in a row that feature an annoying Rastafarian drummer.

Cant comment

( Whenever a set piece came out drawn in "comic book style", I kept thinking of the TV musical version of "It's A Bird, It's A Plane, It's Superman".

Really, because the set pieces have been praied to high heavens after last night, especially the pop up effect

(9) Big, complicated action scenes are actually very well suited for big budget movies. Big budget musicals...not so much

Again, people (other than a couple) have all said the action stuff is great, the book and some of the score was a problem. And live action sequences can be thrilling.

(10) If Julie Taymor is a perfectionist, why isn't Spider-Man perfect?

Stupid comment

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:55am

"So basically, the consensus of this thread is that this show garners the same response as every other show during previews on Broadway. Some people like it and some people don't. And some people were going to hate it no matter what.

Got it."

Exactly, MisterMatt.

Updated On: 11/29/10 at 10:55 AM

[trentsketch]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 10:57am

"I gather you've never seen the uncut version of ACROSS THE UNIVERSE. TITUS was a slapdash affair with so many "visual metaphors" that it made no sense at all unless you already knew the play. And I doubt many people here saw GREEN BIRD, which, lovely as it was, was a mess with no through-line, just a lot of "Aint this cool?" moments."

I have not seen the uncut Across the Universe. I didn't care to as I didn't like the theatrical cut (the visuals were lovely but I didn't feel invested in the film save the funeral scene near the opening). I did, however, love Titus to pieces but fully understand those who don't. I've never even heard of Green Bird, but a cursory search leaves me very interested.

I think the problem with Taymor for wide commercial appeal is that she assumes that people A)know all the references she makes, B)are open to deconstructing visual metaphors while a performance/film is going on, and C)want to be challenged the entire way through a production. There is no breathing room in her vision and I respect that. I'd say she's more crazy than genius, though, in the vein of a Laurie Anderson. When it works, it works really well; when it doesn't, it's unbearable.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:10am

One thing I would like to add, and please someone who was there correct me if I'm wrong, but during the curtain speech made by the producer he said something like, "I guarantee you this is going to be one of the greatest theatrical experiences of your life."

When one of the producers makes a statement like that it's no longer the audience putting expectations on the show, but rather the show putting expectations on our experience. So for any of you complaining about misguided expectations, we were told what are reactions were supposed to be before it even started. I can only assume he will cut that line from his speech before the next performance.

[twinbelters]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:14am

"So basically, the consensus of this thread is that this show garners the same response as every other show during previews on Broadway. Some people like it and some people don't. And some people were going to hate it no matter what.

Got it."

Haha, my thought exactly. Wish there was a story to this show, but it looks like there is not. So, it's just a big pageant with interchangeable sequences.

I'd see it, but much like the last comic-to-stage adaptation it seems like a missed opportunity.... only a lot more expensive.

[sundayclothes2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:22am

It sounds to be like Julie Taymore and Spiderman are the James Cameron and Avatar of Broadway.

Both artists received major flack for the amount of money they were spending. Both are visual spectacles with a terrible script.

Let's see who is laughing all the way to the bank...

[leefowler]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:24am

Actually, this thread seems to consist mostly of people who actually saw the show, and didn't enjoy much of it, versus people who didn't see the show, but are angry at anyone who would criticize a work in progress.

I would be interested in reading some posts from people who actually saw the show, who have constructive ideas about how it might be fixed (and NOT people whose only familiarity with the show is reading these posts and seeing the feature on 60 Minutes). Having seen it last night, I can't think of anything I would do to improve it, other than cutting down the length of the damn thing.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:32am

(4) People used to always talk about how great it would be for rock and pop writers to create their own Broadway shows. Do we still feel that, after Capeman (Paul Simon) Tarzan (Phil Collins) Dance Of The Vampires (Jim Steinman) and now this?

This one is my favorite because only one of the examples is actually relevant. Tarzan already had the majority of its score tested in the popular Disney film. The show was mostly criticized for its costumes and staging. And the fate of Dance of the Vampires had nothing to do with the score. It had to do with the huge stylistic departure the show took from its enormously successful European production as well as possibly the most poorly cast leading role in recent Broadway memory. I think perhaps a more appropriate example in addition to Paul Simon might have been Joseph Brooks, but he wasn't as big a name.

Maybe someday Elton John will write a Broadway musical!

[alliez92092]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:39am

"It sounds to be like Julie Taymore and Spiderman are the James Cameron and Avatar of Broadway.

Both artists received major flack for the amount of money they were spending. Both are visual spectacles with a terrible script.

Let's see who is laughing all the way to the bank..."

The difference between the two is that Avatar had a story you could follow, and Cameron didn't have to keep paying for running costs or cover ups for people getting hurt.

[Steve2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:46am

I couldn't help but notice that even Rolling Stone and MTV used terms like Spiderman "opens" or "debuts" on Broadway last night in their headlines.


Miscellaneous Spiderman Articles Updated On: 11/29/10 at 11:46 AM

[Patash]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:54am

OK, I can ignore the comments about stoppages and I understand the concept of its being a first dress/run through/preview. But what really is getting to me (unless I missed it) is a single comment from anyone that says, "wow, the music is great" or "super score" or anything other than that basically the music is boring, dull, and even "ugly" -- that's upsetting to me. It IS a musical, right?

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 11:59am

I was just reading a paost by Broadway Producer Ken Davenport, love what he says

"But I will say this to the press, and to all the chatters out there that have been sharpening their claws for the past several weeks . . . write what you will. But remember, what they are doing down there is unprecedented. They are building the musical version of the Great Wall of China. (Which, by the way, I'm sure had a bunch of cost overruns and was also way behind schedule).

More important that precedent, is that they are employing an awful lot of people.

We should all be pulling for their success. Explorers of unchartered territory may not always find what they are looking for (remember what Columbus was looking for), and many die in the process, but they always stumble upon something which provides new opportunities for all the rest of us.

Stay the course, Spidey. Some of us are rooting for ya.

Now the big question is . . . will they be publishing their grosses???"

[leefowler]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 12:01pm

Mister Matt,

I have to say I disagree about the failures of Tarzan and Dance Of The Vampires having nothing to do with their scores (even if the scores weren't the main problem). And in the case of Tarzan, although there were a few songs from the movie, almost the entire score was newly created by Phil Collins. But you're right in one sense, since if the score to Tarzan was brilliant, the show would have probably had the same fate.

My point was that the talent to write pop hits doesn't translate into an ability to create a Broadway score. But you're right about Elton John. He is one pop superstar to truly achieve Broadway success. Is there anyone else I've forgotten about? (maybe Duncan Sheik...)

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 12:04pm

Björn Ulvaeus and Benny Andersson wrote some wonderful stuff for Chess

[jimmit]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 12:09pm

If Bono and Edge have in fact fled the country I only wish they'd had the courtesy to flush before leaving.