Spiderman Preview Thread! — Page 18

Can someone who has seen the show explain the fashion show?

I mean is it a literal fashion show with the villians doing like a runway thing, or is it just the sinister six being introduced by the Geeks?

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Julesboogie (love the name), thanks for your post as part of a well thought out discussion on a topic.
Agreed, last night was an unacceptable representation of Broadway. Agreed that shows need "tweaking" .
I don't agree with the idea that having written opinions in papers or on line about a show in "previews" punishes a show. To me it makes them accountable for the product they are offering for sale.

Even the NY Labor department didn't fall for the "we're theatre we will work out the safety issues during previews." The answer was no, you're not. You're like every other business and must follow the same rules.

So many people on here that are defending the "preview" process talk about how they love to come back later and see how the show has changed. Why not let a critic write about both? It's what happens when a show has an out-of-town-tryout. The review in NY compares the show to what it was out of town. Why not let the public in on how a show has changed from it's first performance?

I propose honesty in marketing. I propose doing away with "preview" "Performances". I say they be sold as "rehearsal performances". These "rehearsals" are not sold or marketed beyond the new york area. Don't have Johnny talk his parents into racking up a couple grand for a flight to NY, hotel, and tickets for his first experience at a live Broadway show only to find out he's at a rehearsal and will need to come back in 2 months to see what the show will really be.

The non-theatre world knows what the word "rehearsal" means, they don't understand "preview". Marketing wise, you feel special to go to a rehearsal. No perception of thinking you are in to see a performance. I propose you limit the number of seats available for these "rehearsals". Make them feel even more special - like only half a house at first, build the audience as it gets closer to opening night. AND for those theatre rabid fans that have to be first because they understand the "process" make the prices even higher than for the show itself after opening. To make this "one-of-kind special night" of being ALLOWED int to the creative process of developing the show.
AND just like a film preview, there should be comment cards for the few hundred in attendance. It could either be a gimmick that makes people think their voice is being listened to while it is actually never read, or it can be an actual tool to bring up ideas to the team that is so close to a project that they don't see any problems in their product.

This would stop the confusion of what people think they are buying a ticket to see. It would stop shows like last night from thinking it's ok to tarnish the Broadway brand. It would make Opening Night the special event it is meant to be, it would be anticipated by the public again. It would mark the day joe public would actually know that the show is having it's first performance.

When mp3's and online downloading were or the rise, the recording industry had to acknowledge their existence. They had recognize that the times had changed. That to compete for the public dollar and maintain a business they had to adjust and rethink their approach to the business. The old "That's the way we've done it for years and tears" was no longer an acceptable answer. They reacted to late and the damage was done. They had a chance to get ahead of the technology and they ignored it at a big financial loss.

The film industry got out ahead of the pirating industry by encoding DVDs. They learned from the record business and got in front of the technology. They acknowledged the online community. They embraced them. They bring them in on the process early. Teasing them at comic-cons, feeding them exclusive photos, film clips etc all in a manner to get positive feedback and build a fan base for their project.

Broadway still thinks and has fans convinced "it's not like other art forms" it's live and changing until they say it it ready for you to write your review, because after all theatre is different. It is NOT different. It is a product competing for your entertainment dollar - a LOT of your entertainment dollars actually.

Broadway needs to get ahead of the technology too. Acknowledge that people are online about your show and tweeting about not just after you announce the show exists but especially after they have paid money to see it. Get your show into shape BEFORE you put money paying butts in the seats. Producers should have the "fear" of the public scrutiny of a show in mind before opening the doors instead of the mentality of hurry this tech stuff up and get a paying audience in here. You are charging money for a product. Dress it up in any name you want but it is a product for purchase and as such is subject to criticism.

I would assume the fashion show is much like what happens in The Lion King during Do You Feel The Love Tonight? People just parade around onstage with Julie's "Aren't I cool?" costume designs, with nothing else much better to do or to really add anything to the story.

Could be wrong however as I wasn't there last night.

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The fashion show couldn't make any less sense than My Strongest Suit would in Ancient Egypt, so I'm not too worried about it.

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The shoes thing sounds hilarious!

And completely random.

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Has no one else sensed a connection between Taymor and the SpiderWoman character?
Ths powerful Scarey woman who creates the Spiderman than ends up ruling the second act and getting all the attention.

And last night they both were left hanging in mid-air.

Crewdude,

Wonderful thank you. I am picking up what youre putting down now. I get it, but i do feel like the issues are a bit muddled. NY Labor stepped in to make sure people were safe. Completely necessary. I dont think a review in the preview process is necessary. It would be like reporting on an old version of software thats had several updates. The day after a reviewer sees the show, there are more than likely changes. This therefore makes his observations obsolete. Unless that reviewer is going to dedicate themselves to going back everynight, its impossible for he/she to give an accurate depiction of what audiences will experience in the future. Misinformation CAN hurt a show. So i do feel like its punishment. The frozen opening night is what everyone will see from then on (hopefully). Thats why its reviewed.

Now honesty in marketing, i can totally get behind. But, i do place some of that responsibility on consumers. If Johnny's family is going to shell out tons of cash for something, they should do a little research. If i go to a concert and pay tons of money for a ticket, you better believe that i know what im paying for. But thats just me, and i dont have expendable income. I DO totally think a change in name for preview performances could be a solution to this. But when John Q public doesnt inform himself he could still walk into something like last night. Who's fault is it then. Because he doesnt know the difference in a rehearsal performance and a performance. See now we are getting into a question of who's job is it to educate the audience. I lean more toward the consumer. Its your money.


Whatever the case, i do think something should be done so that people arent taken advantage of. It does in fact seem as though they were a guinea pig audience. And thats not cool.

Love the debate Crewdude. Keep it coming

Looking forward to the future:

One thing that most people don't realize is how hard it is to make changes to a show once it's in previews. And a show like this is much harder than most. My guess is that the show, as it played last night, is between 30 and 45 minutes too long. But every time someone tries to cut the show down, the costume lady will run in and say, "No, you can't cut that song, I need that time to change Mary Jane's costume." Or, "You can't cut that scene with the 'Geek Chorus', we're hooking up the Spidermen, and we need the time". So you end up leaving a lot of material in the show, not because it's any good, but because you need that to time to cover set changes, costume changes, and the like.

NOT TO MENTION that the show, as of last night, simply falls apart at the end of act 2. There has to be a big, impressive, flying SOMETHING at the end, and although I'm sure a big ending is in the works, it still has to be rehearsed and put into the show. So rehearsal time has to be set aside for this as well.

This show will almost certainly delay opening for at least a couple of weeks, probably into February. There will be a lot of cancelled performances, to create additional rehearsal time. And the press is going to be breathing down their necks every step of the way.

And with those cancelled performances, combined with overtime, the cost of this show will continue to balloon...

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Anyone have pics of the the Playbill, songlist and who sings what?? I'm dying to see.

Grosses are up. Only 5 empty seats.

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I think any show that has cancelled as many performances as this one will sell out for a while in previews. I expect this show to make quite a lot of money...in the short term.

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Jboogie, thank you for proving that it is possible to have intelligent discussions on the internet chat boards without bickering or name calling! You really know how to boogie!

You write " It would be like reporting on an old version of software thats had several updates. " Thank you for this incredible analogy. It's not like writing about software that HAS had updates. Actually It's more like writing about a new software program/operating system that you know WILL make changes and improve. Or more accurately, you HOPE will make changes.

But meanwhile the version of the software that exists as it is, is being sold to the public but no one is supposed to write about Spidey O/S 1.0 because the company has already said version 1.5 is being released in a few months? The product is still being sold, granted there may be daily updates but the basic product is the basic product and it should be reviewed as such for the consumer.

Also, as "an industry insider" I can tell you no show is "frozen" on opening. The show is actually "locked in" in theory during press week which happens a week before the scheduled opening night. BUT even then, things are still being worked on unless the cast says "Call me Miss Birdseye. My show is frozen" Best example Les Mis was changed several times during it's run. Most notably when 15 minutes were cut at the 10th anniversary in order to stop paying overtime to musicians. Then when broadway closed they changed the show again by putting the Cosette/Valjean first meeting in the woods back into the show for the tour company. They also eliminated or added measures of the music here and there many times over the years of the run.

When it comes to having to research what you are going to see...Broadway is a brand. The League of Producers has hundreds of Millions of dollars over the years to market Broadway as the best of a live theatre experience. Producers and directors have an obligation to maintain those standards each and every time you sell a ticket to the public for a theatrical experience. You should not be allowed to backpedal AFTER you have taken people's money and say "oh, this isn't really a performance, even though you bought a ticket. So we're still working on it." The public should have to educate themselves on different versions of a Broadway theatre experience.

Spiderman is a brand name. Part of the Marvel Entertainment family , now part of the Disney family. Spiderman has a built in fan base. The show itself trades on that very fact. They know that the very use of the name guarantees ticket sells without any "research" required.

The reputation of the brand name is protected by the company by it's copyright. They make sure the brand is not tarnished by knock-offs. Thus the vigorous suits for copyright infringement. The public expects a certain quality to go with that brand name. The blatant disregard and disrespect for both brand names last name was atrocious. Fans of both deserved better from a paid Broadway performance.

Call it preview if you want but it was still a version of the Spidey O/S 1.0 that was sold to the public.

Looks like a dozen or so canceled performances in December and January when you go look for tickets, primarily matinees.
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