Spiderman Preview Thread!- Page 18

[tazber]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:11pm

Can someone who has seen the show explain the fashion show?

I mean is it a literal fashion show with the villians doing like a runway thing, or is it just the sinister six being introduced by the Geeks?

[billynj]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:20pm

Wicked found its home and HUGE ticket sales after the theater queens bashed it, maybe We just have to give it time. I will go the end of next week, maybe by then there will be some changes

[crewdude]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:22pm

Julesboogie (love the name), thanks for your post as part of a well thought out discussion on a topic.
Agreed, last night was an unacceptable representation of Broadway. Agreed that shows need "tweaking" .
I don't agree with the idea that having written opinions in papers or on line about a show in "previews" punishes a show. To me it makes them accountable for the product they are offering for sale.

Even the NY Labor department didn't fall for the "we're theatre we will work out the safety issues during previews." The answer was no, you're not. You're like every other business and must follow the same rules.

So many people on here that are defending the "preview" process talk about how they love to come back later and see how the show has changed. Why not let a critic write about both? It's what happens when a show has an out-of-town-tryout. The review in NY compares the show to what it was out of town. Why not let the public in on how a show has changed from it's first performance?

I propose honesty in marketing. I propose doing away with "preview" "Performances". I say they be sold as "rehearsal performances". These "rehearsals" are not sold or marketed beyond the new york area. Don't have Johnny talk his parents into racking up a couple grand for a flight to NY, hotel, and tickets for his first experience at a live Broadway show only to find out he's at a rehearsal and will need to come back in 2 months to see what the show will really be.

The non-theatre world knows what the word "rehearsal" means, they don't understand "preview". Marketing wise, you feel special to go to a rehearsal. No perception of thinking you are in to see a performance. I propose you limit the number of seats available for these "rehearsals". Make them feel even more special - like only half a house at first, build the audience as it gets closer to opening night. AND for those theatre rabid fans that have to be first because they understand the "process" make the prices even higher than for the show itself after opening. To make this "one-of-kind special night" of being ALLOWED int to the creative process of developing the show.
AND just like a film preview, there should be comment cards for the few hundred in attendance. It could either be a gimmick that makes people think their voice is being listened to while it is actually never read, or it can be an actual tool to bring up ideas to the team that is so close to a project that they don't see any problems in their product.

This would stop the confusion of what people think they are buying a ticket to see. It would stop shows like last night from thinking it's ok to tarnish the Broadway brand. It would make Opening Night the special event it is meant to be, it would be anticipated by the public again. It would mark the day joe public would actually know that the show is having it's first performance.

When mp3's and online downloading were or the rise, the recording industry had to acknowledge their existence. They had recognize that the times had changed. That to compete for the public dollar and maintain a business they had to adjust and rethink their approach to the business. The old "That's the way we've done it for years and tears" was no longer an acceptable answer. They reacted to late and the damage was done. They had a chance to get ahead of the technology and they ignored it at a big financial loss.

The film industry got out ahead of the pirating industry by encoding DVDs. They learned from the record business and got in front of the technology. They acknowledged the online community. They embraced them. They bring them in on the process early. Teasing them at comic-cons, feeding them exclusive photos, film clips etc all in a manner to get positive feedback and build a fan base for their project.

Broadway still thinks and has fans convinced "it's not like other art forms" it's live and changing until they say it it ready for you to write your review, because after all theatre is different. It is NOT different. It is a product competing for your entertainment dollar - a LOT of your entertainment dollars actually.

Broadway needs to get ahead of the technology too. Acknowledge that people are online about your show and tweeting about not just after you announce the show exists but especially after they have paid money to see it. Get your show into shape BEFORE you put money paying butts in the seats. Producers should have the "fear" of the public scrutiny of a show in mind before opening the doors instead of the mentality of hurry this tech stuff up and get a paying audience in here. You are charging money for a product. Dress it up in any name you want but it is a product for purchase and as such is subject to criticism.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:28pm

I will co-sign tazber's question about the fashion show and want to add 'So.. that shoes number?'

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:41pm

I would assume the fashion show is much like what happens in The Lion King during Do You Feel The Love Tonight? People just parade around onstage with Julie's "Aren't I cool?" costume designs, with nothing else much better to do or to really add anything to the story.

Could be wrong however as I wasn't there last night.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:43pm

The fashion show is a literally runway show. Picture the set of Project Runway and you've got it. The sinister six are introduced one by one. They each get a turn to strut their stuff down the runway and scare the onlookers (including a nun!).

The shoes song is so absurd. It seemed to come out of nowhere and then was never brought up again. Arachne calls for this big pile of shoes and the tug a cardboard cut-out mound of shoes on stage. Her spider legs are adorned with shoes and her little spider furies sing a song. Then the shoes are gone for the rest of the show!! It's just really campy and funny because she's like, "I know what I need! The shoes!!" (Big ones, tall ones, short ones, green ones, etc the furies sing)

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:43pm

The fashion show couldn't make any less sense than My Strongest Suit would in Ancient Egypt, so I'm not too worried about it.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:47pm

Mister Matt- It is exactly like My Strongest Suit! The costumes are very cool and the concept didn't bother me. The problem was they didn't set up why it was happening or who these villains really were. The Geek Chorus just started arguing about what villain Spiderman should next face and the runway just materialized.

I also kept expecting one of them to win the fashion show (be selected to fight Spiderman), but it just sort of ended and you later deduce they all must have won.

[tazber]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:49pm

The shoes thing sounds hilarious!

And completely random.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:54pm

It makes the jazz club scene in Spiderman 3 sound inspired.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:55pm

Has no one else sensed a connection between Taymor and the SpiderWoman character?
Ths powerful Scarey woman who creates the Spiderman than ends up ruling the second act and getting all the attention.

And last night they both were left hanging in mid-air.

[tazber]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 2:55pm

Another question for everyone:

During the clip of "By Numbers" they showed on 60 minutes, are they singing "boink by numbers" in the chorus?

I swear that's what I heard.

Please say that's what they sing.

[julesboogie]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:09pm

Crewdude,

Wonderful thank you. I am picking up what youre putting down now. I get it, but i do feel like the issues are a bit muddled. NY Labor stepped in to make sure people were safe. Completely necessary. I dont think a review in the preview process is necessary. It would be like reporting on an old version of software thats had several updates. The day after a reviewer sees the show, there are more than likely changes. This therefore makes his observations obsolete. Unless that reviewer is going to dedicate themselves to going back everynight, its impossible for he/she to give an accurate depiction of what audiences will experience in the future. Misinformation CAN hurt a show. So i do feel like its punishment. The frozen opening night is what everyone will see from then on (hopefully). Thats why its reviewed.

Now honesty in marketing, i can totally get behind. But, i do place some of that responsibility on consumers. If Johnny's family is going to shell out tons of cash for something, they should do a little research. If i go to a concert and pay tons of money for a ticket, you better believe that i know what im paying for. But thats just me, and i dont have expendable income. I DO totally think a change in name for preview performances could be a solution to this. But when John Q public doesnt inform himself he could still walk into something like last night. Who's fault is it then. Because he doesnt know the difference in a rehearsal performance and a performance. See now we are getting into a question of who's job is it to educate the audience. I lean more toward the consumer. Its your money.


Whatever the case, i do think something should be done so that people arent taken advantage of. It does in fact seem as though they were a guinea pig audience. And thats not cool.

Love the debate Crewdude. Keep it coming

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:09pm

Bullying by numbers.

[leefowler]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:11pm

Looking forward to the future:

One thing that most people don't realize is how hard it is to make changes to a show once it's in previews. And a show like this is much harder than most. My guess is that the show, as it played last night, is between 30 and 45 minutes too long. But every time someone tries to cut the show down, the costume lady will run in and say, "No, you can't cut that song, I need that time to change Mary Jane's costume." Or, "You can't cut that scene with the 'Geek Chorus', we're hooking up the Spidermen, and we need the time". So you end up leaving a lot of material in the show, not because it's any good, but because you need that to time to cover set changes, costume changes, and the like.

NOT TO MENTION that the show, as of last night, simply falls apart at the end of act 2. There has to be a big, impressive, flying SOMETHING at the end, and although I'm sure a big ending is in the works, it still has to be rehearsed and put into the show. So rehearsal time has to be set aside for this as well.

This show will almost certainly delay opening for at least a couple of weeks, probably into February. There will be a lot of cancelled performances, to create additional rehearsal time. And the press is going to be breathing down their necks every step of the way.

And with those cancelled performances, combined with overtime, the cost of this show will continue to balloon...

[tazber]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:15pm

Thanks WiCkED.

So disappointing.

[rorschach37]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:16pm

Anyone have pics of the the Playbill, songlist and who sings what?? I'm dying to see.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:19pm

io9 gave a sorta review and plot revelations to the morbidly curious geeks on the site (CONTAINS A LOT OF SPOILERS):
http://io9.com/5701486/the-spider+man-broadway-musical-is-like-eating-a-candy+coated-black-widow

[nexttotheheights]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:19pm

Grosses are up. Only 5 empty seats.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:20pm

So, the grosses are being reported. From one performance, it grossed $200,000. If, let's just imagine, it somehow managed to sell out for a whole 8-performance week, that would mean it could potentially be grossing $600,000 over its nut.

[leefowler]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:28pm

I think any show that has cancelled as many performances as this one will sell out for a while in previews. I expect this show to make quite a lot of money...in the short term.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:39pm

Good grief, of course it's going to sell out for the first preview night: people have been waiting to see what all the fuss was about... for years! This wasnt just a first preview/costume tech/whatever you want to call it -- this is seeing CARRIE or ANYONE CAN WHISTLE, so that years from now, you can smugly say "Yeppers, I was there."

That doesnt mean beans about the long term. $200K against a $65+ mil budget? Nada, folks. Yes, it may hold it for the previews for a while. The fact that it'll be playing through the Christmas season is good news for the accountants. But isit enough of an "event" to make back its investment? Im kinda doubting it. WICKED has been hanging in there for years because of solid repeat business that comes to not only see spectacle but a good story. Unless the director pulls a serious rabbit out of that proverbial hat, that aint gonna happen here. So much of this show is pre-programmed -- at hideous expense, I'm sure -- that even the slightest change means mega-bucks in overtime. That just happens when you get to this level of technology.

And sorry, but to be six weeks away from your official opening and, after all the years of development, not have the ending worked out? They have had plenty of time to develop this. Now it's just looking like artistic masturbation.

[crewdude]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:51pm

Jboogie, thank you for proving that it is possible to have intelligent discussions on the internet chat boards without bickering or name calling! You really know how to boogie!

You write " It would be like reporting on an old version of software thats had several updates. " Thank you for this incredible analogy. It's not like writing about software that HAS had updates. Actually It's more like writing about a new software program/operating system that you know WILL make changes and improve. Or more accurately, you HOPE will make changes.

But meanwhile the version of the software that exists as it is, is being sold to the public but no one is supposed to write about Spidey O/S 1.0 because the company has already said version 1.5 is being released in a few months? The product is still being sold, granted there may be daily updates but the basic product is the basic product and it should be reviewed as such for the consumer.

Also, as "an industry insider" I can tell you no show is "frozen" on opening. The show is actually "locked in" in theory during press week which happens a week before the scheduled opening night. BUT even then, things are still being worked on unless the cast says "Call me Miss Birdseye. My show is frozen" Best example Les Mis was changed several times during it's run. Most notably when 15 minutes were cut at the 10th anniversary in order to stop paying overtime to musicians. Then when broadway closed they changed the show again by putting the Cosette/Valjean first meeting in the woods back into the show for the tour company. They also eliminated or added measures of the music here and there many times over the years of the run.

When it comes to having to research what you are going to see...Broadway is a brand. The League of Producers has hundreds of Millions of dollars over the years to market Broadway as the best of a live theatre experience. Producers and directors have an obligation to maintain those standards each and every time you sell a ticket to the public for a theatrical experience. You should not be allowed to backpedal AFTER you have taken people's money and say "oh, this isn't really a performance, even though you bought a ticket. So we're still working on it." The public should have to educate themselves on different versions of a Broadway theatre experience.

Spiderman is a brand name. Part of the Marvel Entertainment family , now part of the Disney family. Spiderman has a built in fan base. The show itself trades on that very fact. They know that the very use of the name guarantees ticket sells without any "research" required.

The reputation of the brand name is protected by the company by it's copyright. They make sure the brand is not tarnished by knock-offs. Thus the vigorous suits for copyright infringement. The public expects a certain quality to go with that brand name. The blatant disregard and disrespect for both brand names last name was atrocious. Fans of both deserved better from a paid Broadway performance.

Call it preview if you want but it was still a version of the Spidey O/S 1.0 that was sold to the public.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:51pm

Actually the full gross potential has not been realised yet, as there is an offer going via playbill, producers and creatives were sitting in seats that would of otherwise been sold.

If this show gets fair reviews and it gets a buzz and becomes a tourist attraction like Wicked, the amount of premium tickets will be increased considerably.

If it doesn't get a buzz and sales full below the above gross, I do not want to think about it!

[indytallguy]

Posted: 11/29/10 at 3:58pm

Looks like a dozen or so canceled performances in December and January when you go look for tickets, primarily matinees.
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