Spiderman Preview Thread!- Page 37

[helloworld2]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 10:42am

And the $1 million dollar nut (whatever that means) -- I've not seen anybody actually acknowledge that number.

That number came directly from an interview with Julie Taymor...I believe the 60 Minutes one, although I could be mistaken about that part.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 10:42am

But you need to be able to put aside "your vision" at some point and your "I'm right and the audience is wrong and they wouldn't know true art if it sat on their face" attitudes and make the necessary changes, which theatrically Taymor (at least to date) has not shown she is capable of doing.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 10:56am

"But you need to be able to put aside "your vision" at some point and your "I'm right and the audience is wrong and they wouldn't know true art if it sat on their face" attitudes and make the necessary changes, which theatrically Taymor (at least to date) has not shown she is capable of doing."

Of course you do, all you have through the creative process is your vision and that is what you want to bring to life. However once in front of an audience they will tell you what they like and what they don’t like. From what i can tell changes are getting made to the show. It may seem slow but with such a tech show it's not as easy as a swap in and swap out, all the design has to be reprogrammed to assist the changes.

[leefowler]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 11:04am

The problem isn't that Taymor has crafted an ending to Spider-Man that doesn't work...The problem is that that apparently she ran out of time to craft any ending whatsoever.

As act 2 plays currently, the plot slowly disintegrates, characters mysteriously disappear from the proceedings (most notably the "Geek Chorus"), and the people who were flying around at the drop of a hat in Act 1 stand stage center and belt out pop ballads. It reminds me of an old George Jean Nathan quote from one of his reviews, "Act 2 looks like it was staged during intermission".

Even in "The Lion King", which is mostly terrific, one senses Taymor runs out of ideas and enthusiasm during act 2.

[crewdude]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 11:04am

Songand dance - "It shows how little people know about producing."

And THAT shows how condescending and presumptive some comments can be.

With almost 30 years in this biz, i do know quite a bit about producing. Plus having actually been in the audience for the first performance I can tell you that the problems with the show are not things that needed an audience in order to find out if they work. When there's not a story for an entire act, you don't need an audience. When you have music that just plain sucks, you don't have to wait for an audience to know it. When you write a song about shoes and your cast, crew, and musicians have been laughing about it before there is an audience you know there's a problem.

I agree with you. There are certain things that need an audience to test them out to gauge reaction. The problems with this show should have been seen long before they sold a ticket for the first round of cancelled performances. And yes, I will call them performances because the show itself advertises them as performances not as "Previews" or "working rehearsal performances". Ticketmaster doesn't distinguish any show as being different from another, so neither should the public or the press.

When you are dealing with a budget of $65 mill at some point those producers needed to have step in and demand a better accountability of money. They also should not have given in to the "visionary" with a track record of box office failures .

Someone posted saying the producers may not have had that kind of power. Trust me. When you front a show more than $1 mill your voice is listened to. If a lead producer says, Julie you're out of control with spending, Julie there's no story in Act 2, Julie these songs suck. With $65 mill on the line you do not take "No one wants to see a $25 mill Spiderman" as an answer. Or "These songs are part of my vision" or "my vision is of an art greater than u can understand". No a producer says, fix it!

People also are starting to question the $1 million weekly operating cost. Saying they think it's exaggerated or questioning where the number came from. On the 60 minutes piece as she sat with Taymor, Bono and Edge, Leslie Stahl said the show has a weekly operating cost of $1 million. The director did not bat an eye. She did not try to spin the statement by saying that the number is exaggerated. No one acted as though that number was anything less than accurate.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 11:17am

Regarding Bono and The Edge not being there for previews...I agree they should be. Streaming the show to them does not give them a feel for the audience's reation to thier music. I am figuring they are not there due to their tour schedule and the delays in opening Spider-Man. Also remember Bono had that accident and had to cancel all of those shows? I am assuming they had to re-arrange the tour to honor the dates they missed. They cancelled here and won't be here to do the concert until the spring. Remember, this show was slated to open early last year before the U2 tour began.

[After Eight]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 12:29pm

"Here is my question . . . It is seating. Available seating seems to be pretty limited in spite of the reviews. The tickets are horribly expensive for families. We cant chance rush, so we are going for the 150 or lower tickets. From reading the thread, it seems that the back rows are out due to very limited visibility. tickets. If you have gone to the show, would you please share where your seat was located and the + and - of the view you had. Thank you soooooo much:o)"


To motherofone:

I saw it from the rear of the theatre, center, and didn't have many visibility problems at all. The only thing I missed was when they flew under the balcony, but I believe I saw the greater part of the flying, including the aerial fight scene,and saw it well.

In any case, let's hope they fix the show before you see it. I hope you and your family will enjoy it.

[Disneyland Magic Man]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 12:35pm

On CNN. The review in the comments is the most interesting part.

http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/07/spider-man-director-brushes-off-bad-press/?hpt=Sbin

[leefowler]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 12:37pm

If Bono and The Edge were here in New York writing new songs, the new songs would sound just like the old songs.

[justafan2]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 12:40pm

I read a post here that used the word "vertigo" after seeing this show. Has anyone else had that experience? Part of me wants to see it (curiosity), but not if it's a seasick adventure. :)

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 12:44pm

If you are referring to YBP's "review" on CNN, that's pretty much what people have been saying here in this thread. Was there something more that I missed?

Updated On: 12/7/10 at 12:44 PM

[justafan2]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 1:01pm

On page 33, Bundy5000 used the word "vertigo" after seeing it---I don't know about CNN---did they also same the same thing?

[Amy3]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 1:17pm

We paid $88 for orchestra N row just off the aisle in preview. Those seats probably cost a lot more now. We could see everything and were not bothered by the lights. However, there was a stage hand that came and crouched just next to us during the fighting in air scene in Act 1, even though he did not do anything. I don't know if there was some risk associated with that spot, or if he is there just to keep the audience in place.

[devonian.t]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 1:42pm

I am not convinced that the loss of $65million is a blow to the theatre industry- it means that $65million have been spent on the industry. It's not like that money disappeared off to Korea or something. Unless there are huge unpaid debts- and nobody is suggesting there will be- then the industry will have got a lot of custom out of the show.

And as for cast and crew being unemployed, it's not like it's forever. Firstly, a whole lot of them will walk into their next engagements. Secondly, whatever moves into the theatre afterwards will soon be employing again.

If the investors lose out, then a few may decide that the investment is too risky in the future. Generally, though, there will still be plenty of people willing to spin the wheel again.

And if no future project is able to spend $65million... maybe that's not such a bad thing anyway.

[bundy5000]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 3:43pm

In my post I was just nitpicking at the fact that during a scene in the show you can hear the song "Vertigo" from U2

[robjohn99]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 4:09pm

I think this posting someone did on the whole Spider-man discussion sums things up (at least for me):

http://jkstheatrescene.blogspot.com/2010/12/schadenfreude-of-spider-man-turn-off.html

- robjohn99

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 4:37pm

I'd appreciate 1. General explanation of the recouping process, and 2. Application to the specific Spider-Man numbers (whatever those numbers really are).

I will try. I don't know anything specific about SPIDER-MAN, but I can explain generally how it works.

Is the (so called) $65 million all used up, or is there some left still to be used? Could it really already be $70 million, and growing? After all, the show is still being developed.

Every experienced producer builds a contingency into their original budget - about 10% of the overall budget is pretty standard. Who knows if these producers did that, but they definitely should. Of course, their expenses could continue growing until they are well past $65 million, but if they had any idea at all how to budget, they should stay at or under that number.

Also, the preview period is part of the initial capitalization budget, so the $65 million budget SHOULD include enough money to run the show for the whole preview period. It's entirely possible they knew they would have enough income during that time to offset their preview running costs, so they did not include it in the budget (or at least not all of it), but usually, it is included.

That means that any money made during previews is USUALLY profit (or, more accurately, goes back into the budget as more contingency).

And the $1 million dollar nut (whatever that means) -- I've not seen anybody actually acknowledge that number. Will it turn out to be closer to one and a quarter million? 1.4? 1.5?

At this point, especially after running for a few previews, they should be pretty much settled on that $1 million number. Rehearsals and changes and any extra costs that happen during previews are NOT added to the operating costs - they are included in the capitalization budget. Of course, as they make changes to the show, costs can always go up, but I doubt they'd go up that much.

Finally, assuming, for example, a future steady $1,500,000 reported weekly gross -- what portion, part or percentage of that is actually available to be applied to the weekly nut? And is the remainder then applied in full amount against the production advances (ongoing paybacks to the pure investors)?

As someone else stated, the operating costs (nut) are paid back before anything else, then whatever profit is left is split between the creatives and the investors (usually 40-60 until it recoups, but this totally depends on whatever agreement they made for this show).

Except for a relatively tiny amount built into the weekly budget, producers usually make NO money until the show recoups and starts earning a profit (unless, of course, they are also investors).

Someone can correct me on this, but after studying under and working for Broadway producers for the past few years, this is pretty much standard in my experience.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 5:19pm

But you need to be able to put aside "your vision" at some point and your "I'm right and the audience is wrong and they wouldn't know true art if it sat on their face" attitudes...

But why? BWW members sing that song all day, every day.

[justafan2]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 5:51pm

Ah, Bundy5000---thank-u! :)

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 7:39pm

I thought the attached article was very smart. Karma is a bitch.

On a show's running expenses... the only part that you might have expanded a little bit on is the producers. Although they don't usually take a percentage of the profit until the show recoups, there is usually a rather hefty administration fee that is a part of the running expenses. The producers are not without any financial resources until a show recoups. Their office services are paid for.

[corkystclair2]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 7:39pm

Good points Devonian.

Regarding budgeting. Be aware that no numbers spoken or unspoken are necessarily the "truth". The show is not required to report weekly payroll/rental/etc or capitalization. It could be more than $65 million or less. It could be more or less than $1 million a week for running costs. Cirque du Soleil regularly spends even more than the numbers that float around their Las Vegas spectacles and doesn't correct the press. Would you really want people to know that your show cost more than $150 million? The math regarding running costs is "funny" as well when the show includes a major producer/investor who is also a major vendor of the scenery, sound and lighting equipment on the show.

I wouldn't place much credence in the financial speculation regarding Spiderman in other words.

[Barney Stinson]

Posted: 12/7/10 at 11:36pm

Yero and Corky are both right. Corky is right that the stated or claimed number isn't necessarily true at all.

Yero is basically right about the general recoupment process, except that you have to take a certain % off the top of your $1.5 gross number. 5% for the theater, typically, and 5-8% for credit card fees, group sales fees, other gross % fees. So subtract out 12% or so from the original $1.5 million gross before you subtract the $1mm nut.

Also, with Spiderman, the royalty agreements may be entirely different than most shows, since they have a Marvel character, celebrity scorewriters and a pseudo-celebrity bookwriter/directer.

However, since the show almost died for lack of additional funding, it could also be true that the last $25mil put into the show (or however much was given to keep it going) will be paid off first, before even the royalties get a dime.

I have no idea if that is true, but it would have been pretty dumb to give them the money without that sort of an agreement.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:43am

"We hope you enjoy the flowers. It was cheaper than a cease-and-desist.""

Well I wonder if whoever sent Conan those flowers is cowering in a corner, because Conan's third sneak peek was absolutely merciless tonight. Heavily emphasizing the accidents and the budget, it featured Spider-Man in a neckbrace; Doc Ock with one arm and one octopus arm in casts; Green Goblin rolling across the stage and crashing into the scenery, which fell on him and the stagehand coming to help him being crushed by a falling beam; and a Spider-Man double falling from the rafters during the curtain call. Oh, a Black Aquaman in wheelchair and a leg brace.

[Barney Stinson]

Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:52am

Spiderman investors have to be loving this stuff. Even though it's bad publicity, it's still publicity, which is good publicity. Plus, people love danger. The thought that you just might see someone eat it probably sells a lot of tickets. I'm not saying that's a good thing about human nature, but it's true.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:53am

Thank you for posting that link robjohn99.