Sunday in the park @ studio 54- Page 3

[moulinrougehk]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:24pm

"For the last time, the painting matters everything. If only you could get rid of the painting, everyone can do this role!

What the hell are you talking about?"

The musical confirmed that the painting George painted is "Sunday of La Grande Jatte" which was a real painting painted by George Seurat. Therefore the George in the show have to be assumed as George Seurat, or else this is a academic fallacy. If the role is actually George Seurat, you need to create this character as much as a like to the real George Seurat physically. You may whiten a black but you have to do that because George Seurat is absolute not black.

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 05:24 PM

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:26pm

Suppose we had no idea what Seurat looked like, could we then not do the show because it was "innacurate"?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:28pm

Oh dear GOD. George Seurat isn't some iconic historical figure like Abraham Lincoln or whatever, who EVERYBODY has an image of in their heads. Seurat painted the picture, but he is not IN the picture. So if the actor doesn't look like Seurat, it doesn't matter -- there won't be any discrepancy within the show and the vast majority of people sitting there aren't going to be like, distraught that the actor isn't a George Seurat look-alike. That's crap. Yes, the show is about the guy who painted the picture from which it takes its title -- but that doesn't mean very much with regards to looks.

I think you can make a LOT of cases for physically conscious casting because of historical context. I don't think this is one where it's all that terribly important.

[moulinrougehk]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:30pm

Well, if we really don't have any material that describe the features of George Seurat, you can cast anyone, cause you won't commited the fallacy. However, if they don't have a photo but they do have written materials that stated the look of George Seurat, you need to create the character's features according to those materials.

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:31pm

so, in the upcoming production of 110 Degrees.... Audra has two brothers. one older one, and one younger one. the casting notice specifically said that they want an african american for the older brother, but that the second brother can be played by any color. this wouldn't be distracting to you, if the younger brother was white? you wouldn't have to do a double take and go "wait a minute, this isn't adding up"?

[Producer2]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:33pm

Get Bernadette and Mandy to do it!

[moulinrougehk]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:34pm

"Seurat painted the picture, but he is not IN the picture. So if the actor doesn't look like Seurat, it doesn't matter"

but we do have his photos/paintings. It matters if we do have these materials.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:36pm

Do you hear that noise? It's my head banging into the desk.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:36pm

Those features have nothing to do with the artistic vision of the show.
The artistic vision of the show has nothing to do with race.
To impose an external standard on your characters to meet a non-artistic standard would demean the art.
The character is NOT "George Seurat who was born at ... went to this or that school, etc." Nothing other than the existence of the painting is established in the show as fact, and as Margo explained a French artist COULD have been black anyway. Just because it may not have been true of the "historical" Seurat is irrelevant.

Do I have to use a person who looks like a first century palestinian Jewish peasant to put on Jesus Christ Superstar? (There was recently a composite released of what this person would look like.)

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:38pm

"It matters if we do have these materials."

Perhaps it does to you, but it won't to the 99.9% of the audience who has NO idea what the actual Seurat looked like. There were black artists in Paris during that period, so any audience could certainly accept a black actor playing this particular one, especially since few would know any better.

[moulinrougehk]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:44pm

Have you read my post?

"The musical confirmed that the painting George painted is "Sunday of La Grande Jatte" which was a real painting painted by George Seurat. Therefore the George in the show have to be assumed as George Seurat, or else this is a academic fallacy. If the role is actually George Seurat, you need to create this character as much as a like to the real George Seurat physically. You may whiten a black but you have to do that because George Seurat is absolute not black."

[blaxx]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:44pm

No, but at least you have to be created as a-look-like to Seurat. As long as you can find someone black who's look like Seurat (with the fact that he has to be whiten because Seurat is white and black definitely doesn't look like white), he can be casted!

And I wouldn't argue much with someone who thinks the past tense of cast is "casted". You're sad...

[immortalbroadwayLA]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:46pm

jewishboy: I'm with you for Jason Danieley. I think he would be an awesome George. He has a tremendous voice and I think he has the tempermant for this role in addition to being well deserving of a role like this.

[immortalbroadwayLA]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:47pm

why can't George be played be a black guy? Because he was a real person and he wasn't black. It's pretty simple.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:48pm

We read your posts Moulinrougehk, we simply think you are wrong.
I agree with Margo, even if it did matter, the VAST majority of the audience does not have any clue what Seurat looked like.
I stand by my contention, the race of George is irrelevant to the show.

(Blaxx, I am opperating under the assumption that English is a second language for moulin. )

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:48pm

'so, in the upcoming production of 110 Degrees.... Audra has two brothers. one older one, and one younger one. the casting notice specifically said that they want an african american for the older brother, but that the second brother can be played by any color. this wouldn't be distracting to you, if the younger brother was white? you wouldn't have to do a double take and go "wait a minute, this isn't adding up"?'

Um...nope. Especially if they, say, cast a white man as the father. And ya know what...that just might be the plan. Couldn't it? How do you KNOW they aren't getting a white man to play the father?

And academic fallacy???? This is theatre...not the world of academia. So it doesn't f*cking matter.

I weep for our future when I see so many hangups STILL about race.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:49pm

"If the role is actually George Seurat, you need to create this character as much as a like to the real George Seurat physically. "

Why? This is a fictional, somewhat fantastical musical theatre piece, not a documentary. Audiences accept people bursting into song and stepping out of a painting to address the audience. As long as the actor is male and the approximate age the character is described to be in the book, why would anyone other than you care about his ethnicity?

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 05:49 PM

[moulinrougehk]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:49pm

"why can't George be played be a black guy? Because he was a real person and he wasn't black. It's pretty simple."

... and George Seurat is in the show. If you can have any method to proof that the George in the show is not George Seurat (which is quite hard due the infamous painting), a black guy sure can do that.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:51pm

There are talking dogs in the show as well.
If they are not played by the appropriate "dog like creatures" I am walking right out of there.

[blaxx]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:52pm

Well, English could be his second language, but his ideas are just as ignorant. And then people wonder how racism starts...
I'd love to experience a non-traditional casting for George or for both leads for that matter.

[Pippin]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:53pm

Um...nope. Especially if they, say, cast a white man as the father. And ya know what...that just might be the plan. Couldn't it? How do you KNOW they aren't getting a white man to play the father?



they very well could, and that would be just fine with me, because then it would make sense. but if one of her brothers happens to be of another race, and both parents are the same race as Audra- something's amiss.

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 05:53 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:53pm

ESL...that was my thought, too. Which is fine. It's the idea that's f*cked up...not the wording.

I was gonna bring up the cut-out monkey as well, but was afraid where THAT could take us.

[bwayondabrain]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:53pm

wow, i think we are talking much more about what race the actor playing George should and shouldn't be than about the actual show itself!
that is VERY exciting the show has a Broadway transfer planned, and i really hope it goes through! i think Studio 54 will be a nice fit for the production.
and regarding the actor playing George- i dont really care who they are, and what they look like- as long as they portray the role well, ill be satisfied
:)

[moulinrougehk]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:55pm

"the VAST majority of the audience does not have any clue what Seurat looked like."

but we sure he's not black

"There are talking dogs in the show"

they are not actually talking, just an imagination of George.

and yes, English is my second lauguage.

and about the academic fallacy, i admitt that i am far too serious about it, but even just a fallacy is no good right?

[Fantabulous428]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:55pm

My god, it's called SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF. You two must be the most uptight theatre-goers.

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 05:55 PM