THE STAGE HANDS ARE BULLIES- Page 6

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 11/11/07 at 8:58pm

How about investing in something, that barring a miracle, will make you lose money for a tax writeoff.

Max & leo come to mind.

[leko2]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 11:11am

I am shocked at the amount of ignorance on this thread. Do you people know how unions work? Does anyone know what unions are fo? Do you know how "Broadway theater" works? Do you even know what Broadway theater is? Do you know what stagehands are and what they do? Do you know how to spell stagehands? Have any of you heard of stagehands before this strike happened? It would seem that a lot of people don't.

I would love to spend the next 5 hours of my life answering every post but I'll just say a few things.

One: If I am hired to be an electrician for a show, it is not my job to move scenery, props, dress actors, or do someone's hair and makeup. I don't know many office workers or doctors who also clean the bathrooms, wash the windows, and vacuum the for the places that they work. The same thing goes in theater. If I am hired to do one job why should I be required to do two?

Two: Only one person brought up the fact that until this past weekend in 121 years Local One has never struck. The actors and musicians have both struck on numerous occasions and Local One has stood with them regardless of their views of the matter. So can all the "union actors and musicians" just cut the crap. If you don't agree with the strike that's fine, just don't fuel the fire. The elected officials in your union have publicly stated that you support the strike, if you have a problem with it let them know. Who knows, enough people might contact them and that'll be enough for them to distance themselves from it. Which brings me to another great point.

Three: If you are mad that you do not, allegedly, make as much as a Local One stagehand then tell your union! They negotiate your contract and set your minimums. It is their job to get your what it wants. If the AEA membership wants $6000 a week for an ensemble role, then AEA should be fighting for it until they get it. If the membership wants to be allowed to do non-legit shows so that you can pay your bills and feed your family, then they need to propose a rule change and lobby for it to be done.

Four: Yes actors do move scenery and props from time to time. Do you know that they are required to be paid extra for any moves that they have to do? I bet most of you didn't know that or just didn't want to point it out because it hurts your argument.

Five: Yes some musicians do play multiple instruments during a show. But, can anyone tell me how many violins play the tuba? Or how many percussionists are playing the bass clarinet? Does the harp player also play the trombone?

Six: Let's talk about this dreaded flyman. A lot of people have mentioned that the flyman does nothing on shows that don't have different backdrops or a curtain. Well, that's not entirely true. While a show may not have "working" pieces that doesn't mean that things don't need to move during pre/postshow. Part of the flyman's job is to inspect the rigging and make sure nothing has changed and that everything in the air is still the way it should be. Anything can happen after you leave a place for a prolonged period of time. You need someone there to check and make sure no one has come in and moved any of the "non-working" pieces. Having an electric baton one foot off it's spike can ruin an entire effect which could be monumental to the production of the show. And also, what is this BS about electric winches flying pipes in? A lot of these theaters were built a long time ago before this technology was available. Theater owners don't want to spend money to upgrade the building unless they have to so I'm going to say that I doubt many theaters have this technology in it. And another thing, a lot of these shows are so tightly hung and so precise that anything nonworking is dead hanged from the grid. In the event that it's a dead hang, you could have 1000 flymen on the call, they still can't fly the pipe in.

Seven: Does anyone know when the first time a stagehand won a Tony Award? Or how about the last time? How about the first/last time any of them got an award of any kind? This is a thankless job. Rarely does anyone acknowledge the work done by stagehands. We put our lives and reputations on the line daily for you and in return many people working on a production, let alone seeing one, don't know our names and/or what we do. A little appreciation every once and awhile would be nice.

Eight: A union is a collective bargaining unit. That means that one entity is bargaining on behalf of a larger number of people which in turns means that the employee gets a better working environment and has someone looking out for them. I have done a lot of non-union and union theater. I've had a higher hourly rate at a non-union theater than at a union theater in the same general area, but I was treated with a lot of disrespect and told that if I had a problem with the job that they could easily find some other person to do my job for me and that I'd be out of work. If this had happened to me on a union job, the union would have stepped in and protected my right to a safe and healthy working environment.

Nine: Yes unions in the past have been violent when people have tried to cross picket lines and whatnot. We don't live in the 30's with the amazing frequency of camera phones around job sites and public faces it'd only be in your best instance to do nothing but walk away from it.

Ten: Stop speculating as to what is going on with the strike. You will know when the rest of the world knows. Whatever you say could be taken by the masses as fact and that is how rumors get started. The rumors being perpetuated will only hurt the process not help it.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 11:32am

"Their job is to be up on a role, stand in the wings and be ready to go on each day at a moments notice...

But, you believe that a flyman sitting backstage of a show that has no flys (thus he will NEVER do anything ever) should get paid to sit there and do nothing?? C'mon...."

Just because a show has no use of the fly system doesn't mean a flyman isn't needed. What if there is an equipment failure in the flys? Are you going to send Angela Lansbury up there to fix it?

What about security guards? Every bank in the country has one, but only a small percentage of banks are ever robbed. Should the other banks that don't get robbed get rid of them?

[UnionMade]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 11:32am

Thank you "Leko". This is why the union had no attention of negotiating this contract through the media. The union wants to sit down face to face and respectfully negotiate a fair contract. But the producers chose to walk a way from the table and begin to slander stagehands in the media. And in "bad faith" implement onerous work rules against the union.

[mew5317]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 11:49am

Have you ever worked backstage? Being a stagehand is a lot harder job. There is a lot of heavy lefting for one, long hours for two, saftey for three.They are not being greedy, they are working without a contract and yes I support Local Union.

[BwayJerry]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 12:03pm

If the producers have said they are ready to sit down 24/7 and negotiate, and now you are saying that the union wants to sit "face to face" at a table, then why are you still striking?

It would seem to me that if you were actually interested in keeping jobs and having the people who support you get back to work, then you would be back at the table now instead of pulling this baloney "not until we have the respet of the producers" crap. Who's the one using the media?

[CJR]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 12:06pm

The league went ahead and implemented things that local one shot down..... not to mention the fact that the union has been without a contract since July. What you're seeing on the news and what the league is putting in it's press release is a very skewed view of events.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 12:17pm

I'm in a profession that is considered "too essential" to be permitted to strike.( hey I can't even work to rule) But i'm still a union member and jolly pleased to be so. Even in my profession, which there is a world wide shortage of, management tries to claw back any benefit, salary increase et al with every contract negotiation in stead of trying to make it attractive to newcomers. Safety- I can't even begin the issues that abounded until we unionized. Now, my contracts have all been arbitrated for the last 4 yrs. Usually what happens is the union comes up w several "pie in the sky" requests knowing they can't win them. Management counters w restrictions and clawbacks they know the union will never allow. So each gets to "give up" something and find a common ground. And if not- Binding arbitration.

Any chance this could go that way? It's amazing when a 3rd party comes in how much more in common 2 parties suddenly develop.

[leko2]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 1:45pm

sabrelady has brought up a great point, arbitration. The president of the International stepped into this most recent round of contract negotiations, while he was at the table the league and local one were making headway and starting to adjust their positions. Hours after he left to go deal with the impact of the WGA strike, the league went 180 degrees and began bargaining in a regressive manner at which point he authorized a strike. Had the negotiations not gone backwards, there would have been no strike. If another party were to again come in and mediate, they would have to stay until the ink dries on the contract to make sure that this dispute is actually resolved.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 2:17pm

Anyone who thinks that Non-union shows will drive the ticket price down should go try and see a non-eq Tour (Wedding singer anyone?) in a town like Boston or Atlanta, and then go see a Union one in the same venue. Compare ticket prices and then come back and tell me who is greedy, Unions or Management.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 2:23pm

Are you talking about the non-Eq tours that IATSE crew members work?

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 3:14pm

One good thing that has already come out of this is that the Actor's Union needs to allow some Actors to work non-equ tours. Though I wonder will that cause the industry to create even less Equity Tours? This though really is something the Actors Union must decide and fight for. Bringing up this issue with the Stagehands Union really is o/t. They cannot negotiate Actors' contracts with their Union for them.

We definitely are victim to a generation of younger people who know little or nothing about why we have Unions. It is just sad to keep hearing how we don't need Unions. They think they control all of the "laws" we have. Here in California, we are constantly fighting to keep what little we do have. AGAIN, we have these labor laws because Unions organized and fought the Govt. for them. If Unions disappeared you can bet those wonderful laws we have in California would quickly disappear.

Some people have the luxury of picking and choosing where they work. Some, due to their profession do not. I know I have been forced to walk away from at least two jobs that paid well because they didn't offer me enough in benefits. This is in California. If you are a technician, unless you work for a corporation, you do not have any benefits or 401k. If you join a Union though, you have that as well as the reputation of being a part of a well established, reputable organization that also offer training opportunities. They can work as private business people and create their own retirement plan but it is a lot of work and if they don't make enough time to learn all the tactics of the stock market, they can easily lose money they worked very hard for.


You can't even trust your Company will not be sold or go under and then you have to hire a lawyer to fight for you retirement benefits, if anything is left and they didn't already spend all of your money. At least with a Union, you are paying to have your money secured by people who do just that only. You also qualify for cheaper insurance rates because they negotiate with the insurance companies for you.

The Laws in California are based on the size of the business. I'm sorry to have called you lazy but because you refuse to study the history of even California, you are purposely disrespecting those in my Family who fought very hard to create those benefits you seem so pleased to have. I'm a native Californian and yes, I took my History and Humanity classes, so not only do I have the book knowledge but my Family history to go on. I also am involved enough in Politics to know how much we fight tooth and nail to force big Companies to pay their fair share of benefits to their Employees. It didn't come free and it is mostly secured because we have huge Unions here in California.

Unions have grown weaker over the years. Maybe because they just aren't getting their message out good enough. Too many workers here in California are going without healthcare. If you are an independent worker, you have few options and it just makes sense that if you organize you will have a greater voice in the scheme of things. If you don't think Big Business Mgr. aren't organized and work without Lobbyist, you really do need to go back to school.

I'm afraid, since no one here has enough time or space to give you all of the facts, if you think Unions are a thing of the past then don't join one. Don't support Union shows. I believe in them and support them. They have given our Family a better life.

Some of you say you can't even protest how much you make or you would be fired. Uhm..when I was in a non-Union job, I most certainly protested how much a job offered and refused to take it until they brought the wage scale up to what I felt was a fair wage. So, I pity you. If you joined a Union Company, you would have the Union behind you and maybe your wages would be better. What I have seen is a good argument for why we need to keep Unions strong. Without them, we will find ourselves like some of these poor souls who are stuck in their jobs and have no recourse to ever hope to be paid more or fairly for the labor they provide.

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 3:24pm

IATSE, being a more powerful union, could have said 'We will only work Equity shows.'

But they didn't. And AEA actors have continued to lose jobs, or take jobs on tiered contracts. And, because of that, pension and health has suffered incredibly.

Local One is doing what they have to do. The League is doing what it has to do. I would never cross a picket line.

Updated On: 11/14/07 at 03:24 PM

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 7:04pm

robbiej- I thought I read that stagehands have no say in what shows are booked into their Theatres? I do see your point and this is an issue that really needs to be better addressed.

I do know there are not enough jobs for equity Actors available for everyone. I am not sure what the ratio is though too? I see your point and hopefully more stagehands here can address your question or complaint better.

As for Republicans, you have to look under a rock to find a good and honest one to run for President these days, so what can you expect? That is why I pretty much avoid them like the plague. I do differentiate between Republican and Neo-Con Republicans' who have soiled our good name here in America and we will have debt to pay like no other when all of this is through.

Nothing worse than most Conservatives. They are tightfisted with their money while they spend hog wild with everyone else's. I guess they have to get out all of that repression somewhere but they make terrible managers of other people's money.

[UnionMade]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 7:59pm

Robbie,
There are hundreds of regional theatres that are on Equity contracts that a union stagehand has never stepped foot in. It is unfortunate that so many shows are touring non-equity, but we cannot fight their battles for them. And besides those union contracts fall under the jurisdiction of I.A.T.S.E. International and is a separate issue from Local ONE.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:01pm

There's a strike? I can't seem to find a million threads about it...

[americanboy99]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:10pm

How about everyone just shuts up and goes to XANADU?

I mean, come on people!

[JRybka]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:32pm

Leko~ I just wasted precious time listening to you drovel and whine and bitch AGAIN. If I had no life, I would actually write a rebuttle to 10 commandments of your so called whinny life.

[localonecrew]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:33pm

nice rebuttal. couldnt refute anything leko said , so instead you make that childish rejoinder.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:33pm

American boy, I agree with you and have stated your exact statements many times on this board regarding IATSE working non-union shows. Hopefully they will do just that when AEA goes back to the bargaining table with the league. We are standing by them, hopefully they will stand by us.

[Mooo]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:39pm

To anyone bringing up IA workers doing non-AEA tours I have two words for you that describe the exact opposite of that.


OFF BROADWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Game over....................

[JRybka]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:48pm

Okay local one.. If you read the other posts, you will notice that I have in fact made all kinds of comments about this in a proper way but I figure, if it is okay for Leko to make insults to me (in another post) then I can do the same. Foolish of me to be bullied by someone other then him... What do you guys have nothing better to do then bully? Oh wait, I guess you do.

So in HONOR of the all holy localonecrew here are my comments:



Leko Said: One: If I am hired to be an electrician for a show, it is not my job to move scenery, props, dress actors, or do someone's hair and makeup. I don't know many office workers or doctors who also clean the bathrooms, wash the windows, and vacuum the for the places that they work. The same thing goes in theater. If I am hired to do one job why should I be required to do two?

My commet: Actually I work on Capitol Hill and I do more then just my one job. Why? Cause I am what the normal working class calls a TEAM PLAYER. If trash needs to be taken out, I will do it. If someone needs some help with something other then making reservations (I am the Travel Coordinator for most of Congress and The Senate) I was hired to be a travel coordinator but that does not mean THAT IS ALL I DO.

Leko Wrote:
Two: Only one person brought up the fact that until this past weekend in 121 years Local One has never struck. The actors and musicians have both struck on numerous occasions and Local One has stood with them regardless of their views of the matter. So can all the "union actors and musicians" just cut the crap. If you don't agree with the strike that's fine, just don't fuel the fire. The elected officials in your union have publicly stated that you support the strike, if you have a problem with it let them know. Who knows, enough people might contact them and that'll be enough for them to distance themselves from it. Which brings me to another great point.

My response: Why are we not allowed to fuel any fire.... I do believe that our 1st amendment allows all of us freedom of speach. Maybe I am wrong and we live in Darfar or some other place.

LEko WroteL
Five: Yes some musicians do play multiple instruments during a show. But, can anyone tell me how many violins play the tuba? Or how many percussionists are playing the bass clarinet? Does the harp player also play the trombone?

My response, I know many many many musicians who play multi instruments. For example, I play, Sax, Piano, and Trumpet. I know people who play many many instruments. So your comment is somewhat moot and void.


Leko WroteL
Seven: Does anyone know when the first time a stagehand won a Tony Award? Or how about the last time? How about the first/last time any of them got an award of any kind? This is a thankless job. Rarely does anyone acknowledge the work done by stagehands. We put our lives and reputations on the line daily for you and in return many people working on a production, let alone seeing one, don't know our names and/or what we do. A little appreciation every once and awhile would be nice.
My response: Okay do you know when School teachers won awards? Do they have the Academy of Teachers Awards? Or a Policemans Oscars? No.

Leko wrote:
Nine: Yes unions in the past have been violent when people have tried to cross picket lines and whatnot. We don't live in the 30's with the amazing frequency of camera phones around job sites and public faces it'd only be in your best instance to do nothing but walk away from it.
Funny tell that to Ellen who was totally harassed for trying to save the jobs of all her other staff members. I know PLENTY OF PICKET LINES that could go violent at the drop of the hat. Youtube nation loves this sh.t so why not.... they get their 15 minutes of fame.

Leko wrote:
Ten: Stop speculating as to what is going on with the strike. You will know when the rest of the world knows. Whatever you say could be taken by the masses as fact and that is how rumors get started. The rumors being perpetuated will only hurt the process not help it.
I respond: I actually somewhat agree with this comment. No one knows what is going on but just as the union is giving their opinion.. we are also allowed to give ours.. Again I might mention 1st amendment and we are allowed to voice what we think will be the lasting results of pissing off too many non-union, non acting, theater patrons who just go to enjoy the show...

Again, let me say that this is my right to say how I feel and to voice my opinion. Oh and also.... you have the right to not read it. so win win.

[localonecrew]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:57pm

your rebuttals display only complete ignorance of the subject, not a comprehensive and intelligent refutation of what was said.

[JRybka]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:58pm

is that all you have to say localone? That;s it? Just calling me ingnorant? Funny I am sure my masters at a college would beg to differ with you.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/12/07 at 8:59pm

Wow, JRybka those were just brilliant responses! I'm sure after everyone reads them this entire strike will end tomorrow. Good Work!