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The BWW Paradox

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#1

The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:08am

Do you think that because most of the people on here aren't typical of the majority of regular theatregoers (as mentioned in another post, we look at things with a more analytical eye), we consequently appreciate shows for more or less than the average visitor?

What I'm trying to ask is, because we are more theatre aware, do we enjoy shows more or less that a normal person who sees a show once a year?

I know when I see a musical, I'm assessing all the individual parts (singing, dancing, acting, blocking and concept, as well as costume, lighting, sound and design - all in my own way) as well as the piece as a whole, whereas when people in my family see a show, or just the other people in the theatre, they say things like, "Wow, weren't they good singers!" or "Isn't it all amazing". And it strikes me that most people who aren't theatre obsessed generally enjoy shows more, rather than analytical old me.

This begs the question, because we are fans, do we do ourselves a disservice by knowing too much?

"Jane, I've been dealt a blow - I've been dealt a blow, Jane."

#2

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:12am

yes.

#3

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:16am

I agree

"Jane, I've been dealt a blow - I've been dealt a blow, Jane."

#4

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:17am

For me personally, the answer is no. I just have such a love for musicals that if I'm seeing one and noticing little things I'm criticizing, I just kinda slap myself and tell myself to not be so analytical and enjoy and I'm able to do that. Of course, being analytical helps me appreciate great shows even more, so I think it's a plus. But I think it varies with each person.

"If there was a Mount Rushmore for Broadway scores, "West Side Story" would be front and center. It snaps, it crackles it pops! It surges with a roar, its energy and sheer life undiminished by the years" - NYPost reviewer Elisabeth Vincentelli

#5

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:19am

Yes. Thats a great point, I cant just sit back and enjoy a high school musical or play, unless they are completely perfect, and I find myself even at regional productions saying stuff like "they shouldve gone up on that note " in a song that Ive religiously spun in my cd player.

My brother is the same way with movies, however, he hasnt enjoyed many movies over the last couple of years and when asked why he didnt like it he would say "they used the wrong lense" or " the direction sucked" or " the lighting was off". Im like wtf? it looked fine to me.

and the same is true for me too, when asked why I didnt like a show I comment on how terrible one of the singers or dancers were. And most of the time no one else I go with heard it, maybe i am just too technical and obssessed with perfect form(dancing) and technique in singing. It drives me crazy when someone goes flat , stupid perfect pitch.

#6

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:19am

every single time i see a show people tell me i notice things no one else would and that i'm way to critical... but then they wonder how i enjoyed myself or was able to stand up for the cast at the end of the show... even if i'm critical doesn't mean i can't enjoy a show or certain performances.

#7

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:21am

Yes. It's hard for me to explain, but yes. And I've found that I notice mistakes a lot more, which sometimes takes me out of the performance.

#8

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:24am

Yeah, if I go see a show with friends who aren't theatre freaks, I sound really grumpy when I talk about things that I think could have been improved upon. But I'm not, I just like everything to be perfect and I know what could have been made better. And when I see a show which is approaching perfect, I am able to appreciate that fact all the more because I can examine all the separate parts, as well the whole. So I guess it works both ways. But analysing does tend to take me out of the show sometimes, and I find myself mentally kicking myself saying "Focus, John, focus!"

I see Mamma Mia, I'm gutted. I see Mary Poppins, Hairspray or Billy Elliot, I'm ecstatic.

"Jane, I've been dealt a blow - I've been dealt a blow, Jane."

Updated On: 7/28/05 at 12:24 AM

#9

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:25am

If I see a show with someone who does not have as much theater knowledge as me, like my mother, I often try to explain things that I have learned on this message board or in practice such as how some of the effects work [Wicked], how the Phantom uses a double during a scene [POTO], or how someone is 'overacting' [recent Crazy for You tour].

I sometimes feel bad because I forget that I am not talking to one of my fellow theater friends or such and it often takes away from someone elses theater experience who does not like to analyze theater or an overall performance.

Sorry if this is confusing, but I think people can relate.

Updated On: 7/28/05 at 12:25 AM

#10

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:28am

Yeah, I went to see We Will Rock You recently with my parents. I LOVED it and they loved it too, but when I started saying how I thought one song screwed up the pace of the show, and that I thought one actor was totally awful, they thought I was being kinda ungrateful for them taking me.

"Jane, I've been dealt a blow - I've been dealt a blow, Jane."

#11

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 12:29am

Yes definitely. But as a high school theatre teacher I have learned to curb my analyzing depending on what I'm seeing. I've learned to judge things for what they are. I don't look at high school shows the same as a tour or Broadway. But I definitely compare high school shows to other high schools, and so on. It's tough though. But I know I definitely see things my husband doesn't.

Be the change you want in the world....

#12

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 6:29am

I like it or I do not. This applies to the ,score,choreography actors & show itself. I do not microcritize every little thing

Poster Emeritus

#13

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 6:43am

I actually find that because I am able to look at all the elements that go into a show, I enjoy theater more because I can usually find some redeeming quality (whether it be a performance, a moment of genius blocking, lighting, etc.) Yes, there are very few shows that have gotten all of these things right, but when they do, it makes those shows even more magical. I say all the time, I'd rather take a chance on a show that has a couple of flaws but gives me something to talk about and analyze for the next few days then some perfect light fluff. We pay so much for theater tickets, shouldn't the shows stay with us after we leave the theater?

#14

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 7:35am

I can't decide whether I agree or not. Even though I see a fair amount of theatre (especially for where I live, Broadway or otherwise), I find myself enjoying most shows. I don't think I am very critical of shows. And I don't really notice things like something slowed down the pace. I do notice more things than a lot of non-theatregoers, but that doesn't make me not enjoy the show. For instance, I thought the book was weak for Little Women, that being, it was kind of boring. But everything together, I actually enjoyed the show. Now, not my favorite, but I didn't find myself being critical to the point of not being able to enjoy it. That being said, I'm also not as critical as a lot of people say, on this board.

That was long and confusing. I hope it made some sense.

"This table, he is over one hundred years old. If I could, I would take an old gramophone needle and run it along the surface of the wood. To hear the music of the voices. All that was said." - Doug Wright, I Am My Own Wife

#15

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 8:22am

I had a conversation similar to this one with a friend (who is also a theatre major) when we were in our seats waiting for the beginning of a production of "Happy Birthday, Wanda June." We were talking about how when we were younger, we were blind to a lot of faults of a theatrical production, and we jokingly said that we wish we had had the foresight when we were younger to savor the shows we saw then, because we would never truly enjoy a theatrical production with reckless abandon again. Since further education/experience in the theatre makes one aware of how to constantly improve a production, we're able to see more clearly any thinness in another production. It comes with the business. And, we do it, but it happens everywhere. My dad's in market research, so when I see a commercial that I think is pretty good, he's seeing ways that it could better target its audience. My mom has been sewing for years, so she's able to see flaws in my work that I don't always catch and can tell me how to improve them. When I watch a soccer game with my younger brother (a soccer player), he can point out bad calls or poorly-executed plays that I would never notice. With experience comes a higher level of analysis and, yes, criticism.

Avatar - Isaac, my blue-fronted Amazon parrot. Adopted 9/7/07. Age 30 (my pet is older than me!)

#16

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 8:25am

I think I'd sooner say that being a big fan, and coming into a community like BWW has made me more critical - hell, it's made me consider wanting to be a critic. But, a very smart actor once said that critics do what they do because they love theatre and they want to talk about it - or, that's what the good ones do, anyway. Perhaps being here and discussing theatre so much has made us harder to please, but for me, it doesn't make me like the experience of going to the theatre any less - I still get just as excited about seeing a show, and even if it's not a good show, I still do usually manage to find something that I can enjoy about it. But because we're harder to please, I think that makes us appreciate theatre more - a lot of us knows what goes into it all, and we know just how hard it is to create good theare. I think I agree with what you were getting at, but to say that we appreciate it less may have been poor phrasing. Yes, someone who sees a show maybe once a year and doesn't discuss it all the time like we do will probably be like 'ooh, WOW!' about almost anything, but they probably don't have much of a hollistic understanding of what they're seeing; they can still "appreciate" it, though - in a different way.

So, I think I sort of agree, but not with the phrasing.

(Edited for clarity.)

A work of art is an invitation to love.

Updated On: 7/28/05 at 08:25 AM

#17

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 10:57am

Thanks guys, I think emcee's post really sums up what I was trying to express. I still enjoy going to the theatre, and the fact that I over-analyse is just a reflection of how much I love the form. I usually find something to enjoy, and focusing on all the different parts of the show gives me a greater holistic appreciation of the production.

"Jane, I've been dealt a blow - I've been dealt a blow, Jane."

#18

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 3:00pm

Every time I see a good show, I enjoy it like it's my first time seeing one even if I've seen it multiple times.

I'm not a gay stereotype. I'm a coincidence.

#19

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 6:24pm

Interesting topic.... a wise director of mine once said that people go to the theater to see things they can't do. So, by being a performer, does one not enjoy a show as much as if they were blissfully unaware of the inner workings of the theater world? I'd say yes.

I know that I look for little things that happen during shows such as missed dance steps or props being dropped by accident, but i'm sure the general public notices these things, too.

I think what makes "theatre people" enjoy shows more is that they can see themselves doing the same roles as the people on stage, whereas once-a-year theatergoers just sit back and watch the show. Performers seem to be a lot more critical of performances. At least I know I am, and consequently, i spend my time at the theater thinking about that mistake they made in act 1, rather than the plot or that one actor's great voice.

-Was that a fart?
-My fault, I fear.

#20

re: The BWW Paradox

Posted: 7/28/05 at 6:29pm

Yes, I for one rarely can just stop and let myself enjoy a show. I am always breaking everything apart. I feel that I learn a lot that way and that it makes me more aware of things that I do. I have an eye for extreme detail and if something isn't "right" I notice it. I inherited that from my grandmother.

"For me, THEATRE is an anticipation, an artistic rush, an emotional banquet, a jubilant appreciation, and an exit hopeful of clearer thought and better worlds." ~ an anonymous traveler with Robert Burns

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