The Wiz at a ... white HS- Page 4

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 11:40am

Commie terrorist sympathizer!

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:17pm

>> hey are called Middle-Easterners.

Immaterial. They live on the Asian continent. They are Asians. Sorry that doesnt fit with your neat little construct, but that's how life is... unless you feel like redefining where the continents end and begin.

Oh but wait: they *cant* be "Asian", can they? That's reserved for only one part of the Asian continent, right? Hmm. Like we may all live in North America, but "American" is reserved strictly for people who live in the US, not folks who live in other countries on the North and South Americas.

Further to that, kids, are you seriously telling me that you would take everyone from Japan to Micronesia and label them all the same? I dont know about you, but I know many Japanes and Koreans who wouldnt take too kindly to it. But gosh, that's what you would do, and threfore it's right, right?

And you call me ignortant because I live in the MidAtlantic (please note: not the South.

>> No one really jumped down his throat until he fought back about it.

LOL -- are you reading the same thread here, bud? I posted, and almost immediately three people came in with how TERRIBLY WRONG I was to use this apparently highly offensive word. Man! I wonder what would happen if I said "Occidental". This place would probably implode.

>> So I actually do think it's believeable that someone who has grown up in a predominantly rural area or an area without much cultural diversity could be unwillingly ignorant about such things

... which would be a great thesis were your posiiton flawed by the simple fact that NC is hardly my home for any long period of time. So here's the resume, then get back to your intra-net squabbles:

-- 8 years in San Francisco
-- 17 years in Canada, including some of the most culturally diverse regions of North America
-- 2 years in Malaysia and Indonesia
-- 3 years in your beloved NYC, which, as we all know, is so open and tolerant to all minorities, regardless of what sort.

If the world of PCism has changed so radically that the use of the term ORIENTAL is offensive to someone from that region of the world, I would prefer to hear it from them than from folks dealing with their varying degrees of cultural guilt.

>> Things haven't changed much for you have they pumpkin?

What a pity you people cant see your own hypocritical attitudes at play here. I see a thread where people are snorting and giggling over a predominately white audience "swaying out of rhythm" and those same people giving me grief over semantics. No wonder there's so many wannabes around here.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:24pm

">> So I actually do think it's believeable that someone who has grown up in a predominantly rural area or an area without much cultural diversity could be unwillingly ignorant about such things

... which would be a great thesis were your posiiton flawed by the simple fact that NC is hardly my home for any long period of time. So here's the resume, then get back to your intra-net squabbles:

-- 8 years in San Francisco
-- 17 years in Canada, including some of the most culturally diverse regions of North America
-- 2 years in Malaysia and Indonesia
-- 3 years in your beloved NYC, which, as we all know, is so open and tolerant to all minorities, regardless of what sort."

Then there's no excuse for you being such an intolerant, willfully ignorant ass, SeanMartin.

[HumATune]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:35pm

I've never met a single Middle-Easterner who considered himself Asian, ever. Just saying.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 12:49pm

"Further to that, kids, are you seriously telling me that you would take everyone from Japan to Micronesia and label them all the same? I dont know about you, but I know many Japanes and Koreans who wouldnt take too kindly to it. But gosh, that's what you would do, and threfore it's right, right?"

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread bud, but that's exactly what people were trying to tell you. See...

"The eastern hemisphere is home to many MANY MANY different cultures, and to refer to any one of them as simply "Oriental" is to rob these cultures of their individuality and subjugate them to inferiority within your discourse."

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:25pm

At the risk of repeating myself, calling a racial group "Oriental" is inherently no different than "black" and "white". People just don't like it because it reminds them of Orientalism.

Sean: You're being a tiny bit racist here, and a whole lot pigheaded. That word offends people. Use the word asian. It's inaccurate, yes, but it doesn't offend.

Fenchurch: You're reminding folks of when you claimed it was racist and illegal for someone not to cast a black person as Maria in the Sound of Music. You're far too sensitive. Chillax.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:39pm

Whatever happened with that? We never heard, did we? I had the ACLU on the phone and everything, they were quite interested, especially since the poster basically admitted that if he didn't cast her it would be because of her race,and therefore publicly admitted guilt if in fact he didn't.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:42pm

"therefore publicly admitted guilt if in fact he didn't."

Guilt of what? Not casting someone because their look wouldn't fit the character? That's not racism, that's theater.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:43pm

The ACLU didn't seem to think so.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:51pm

Ah, yes. That esteemed theatrical orginization. Are you saying, Fenchurch, that everyone who ever auditions for anything should always get the part they want? That's not possible. If they thought a black Maria would distract from the message of the production, they don't have to hire a black Maria. That's that.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:52pm

They can think whatever they want, but the ACLU feels that the law dictates otherwise. Are you advising someone to break the law? I'm only half joking, but the people I spoke to at the ACLU seemed to feel that they had a case, so regardless of how the law would play out, the theater company may have had a lawsuit on their hands regardless. I would rather do theater than deal with lawsuits.

Updated On: 5/22/07 at 01:52 PM

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:56pm

Well, seeing as how it's a crazy pretend law that you made up, that's kind of a moot point. There is nothing illegal about casting a part based partially on looks. If there were, theatre would be ruined.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:58pm

Edmund, Looks and Race are two different things. Having a certain Look is different than being Black. Otherwise there wouldn't be two distinct terms.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 2:00pm

Regrettably, Fen, the ninth period bell just rang, and I must go teach MacBeth to a group of teenagers. I'll check up on this later.

Could someone else take over the job of telling her how theater works?

[lindas13]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 5:23pm

let me get this straight.quote. "the WIZ was written for black people" another quote in reply was "get over it". hmmmmm
wonder why that does't apply to every show and conversation on this board?

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 6:04pm

...What happened to this thread?


ACLU? For real? Because someone wouldn't cast a black Maria? Maria was a real person...it would be like trying to cast a black Emma Goldman. It's not racism...some things don't work in theatre. Like when musicals about real people are written...

Right. Back to THE WIZ...at a high school...so it's not even a big deal anyway...

Updated On: 5/22/07 at 06:04 PM

[WordedGrace]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 6:07pm

Ah..lindas you must be refering to me. I'm not going to all nuts about you remarking on my words. I think someone pointed out that during the time The Wiz was written black performers weren't in shows that showcased their talent.. I do stand by my words that The Wiz was written to be of a soulful retelling of The Wizard of OZ in a way that black people can relate to. No, I'm not saying that was right but the mindset was at the time when it was written. Black people I'm sure loved the Wizard of OZ but not many of us could relate to the story of a farm girl from Kansas singing about rainbows and birds. So, of course why not write a show that told the same story from the black point of view? It is what is... Get over it.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 6:12pm

Exactly. I's The Wiz at high school. It's not like trying to do Fences with an all-white cast. Having an all-white cast doesn't affect the message of the show. And again, it's high school. The Wiz is a fun show, and they'll enjoy doing it.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 6:16pm

YA. Next time they try to do THE WIZ on broadway with a white cast..then we can blow up at each other through debates...but a high school? That you don't even go to? Makes everyone this upset? Granted I pitched my opinions in the beginning but remember..it is just a high school show.

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 6:18pm

Another excellent point.

[WordedGrace]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 6:22pm

Agreed! Alright, let's just say if that's what they want to do then good luck.

[fairygodmother]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 6:40pm

i've worked on several versions of the wiz, both a kid, a student and as a teacher, as its one of my favourite shows, especially for a group of young people (of ANY race/creed/etc/etc blah blah). Its done best when you have people involved who truly get the feel for the piece, and can turn it to their strengths. if you have a diva who can riff, let her riff. if you've got a tone deaf kid who can make you laugh, then put them as the gatekeeper and giggle away.

i completely agree with those that say yes, ok, we know its written with an all black cast in mind, but like a lot of musical theatre, it doesn't have to be done that way, especially when talking about youth groups and schools. the talking plant in little shop is supposed to have an isaac hayes style voice, but i've seen a skinny little white girl from liverpool do a fab job. (in fact, think about the scene in Camp where the little tiny kid is wearing the wig and suit, and you'll see the casting joys).
the most professional version of this i'd done (our final performance of our postgrad. MT course) there was only one black cast member - but he was from south africa and had a very hard time getting the feel right, and particularly the dialogue.

i also have always wondered when it will be when this truly becomes a 2 way street - the example of pirate queen is interesting, and then there's the les mis thing too, but if i want to audition for miss saigon, porgy and bess, ain't misbehavin', can I? and before people jump down my throat, I understand that some things have to be sensibly about race, but if we can put some things aside for theatrical convention (like a black billy elliot with two white parents, or audra and her multi racial family in 101), then can't we start to do the same in other things?

[HumATune]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 7:04pm

At the high school and low-amateur level I don’t think it really matters who is in the Wiz. But while it doesn’t bother me, I doubt a professional production of THE WIZ would go over well unless the cast was predominantly black, unless it was a special engagement sort of thing.

This is my rule of thumb: If the show is race-driven, the characters must be cast with people of the correct race. The Wiz was written for one race, but it’s not race-driven in the way Miss Saigon is for example.

[Shawk]

Posted: 5/22/07 at 8:21pm

The ACLU would do... what exactly, based on a call about a basically anonymous thread on an internet message board?

[MaronaDavies]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 12:41am

"If the world of PCism has changed so radically that the use of the term ORIENTAL is offensive to someone from that region of the world, I would prefer to hear it from them than from folks dealing with their varying degrees of cultural guilt. "

Um...people who are Asian HAVE told you so. In this thread. And if you chose to look up exactly why "Oriental" is offensive, you'd find a lot more. And the term is not about being politically correct. It's about having RESPECT for that ethnic group. It's about replacing a name that has pejorative and Imperialist connotations with one that is respectful. The same way we don't call African Americans "colored" anymore.

People from Asia and with Asian heritage never chose to be called Oriental. They never claimed to live in the Orient. Those terms were brought in by the British and others while they were busy colonizing.

It's about ethnic background and heritage as well as specific geographic location. Which is why we have Southeast Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc. The same way we have Northern European, Eastern European and Mediterranean. They're all from very different places in Europe and they're all Europeans, yes?