When does Mrs. Lovett recognize Sweeney?

At what point do you all think Mrs. Lovett first recognizes Sweeney Todd? When she says, "So it *is* you: Benjamin Barker" after his outburst at the end of "Poor Thing", it seems clear that she already suspected his identity. But when does that suspicion first enter her mind? When he first walks into the shop? (she does say she thought she'd "seen a ghost") or at some specific later moment during "The Worst Pies in London"? And does this mean that Mrs.Lovett describes his wife's rape deliberately to provoke a reaction from him?

thoughts?

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I think she notices him from the first moment but believes it isn't him ("I'd thought I'd seen a ghost") but slowly realises that it really is him and plays it cool thoughout Worst Pies and Poor Thing.

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LOL! Piazzalight---I don't think you meant "costumer."

Although maybe she DID think he'd be good with bead work and a sewing machine.

I think you meant "customer."



*gasps*



A COSTUMER!!!

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Updated On: 8/27/06 at 05:07 PM

Sweeney tells you. "From the moment I walked into your shop you knew my Lucy lived."

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WickedGeek, that doesn't necessarily mean Mrs. Lovett recognized Sweeney the moment he walked in -- at most, it means that's when Sweeney thinks she recognized him, but he has no way of knowing that for certain. He's simply saying that she knew "all along", which of course she did.

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Quite true, I accept defeat.

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I guess that I always wonder how gradual Mrs. Lovett's recognition is. After all, if she were immediately certain of Sweeney's true identity, why play games? Also, she does comment on how changed he is, and neither the Judge nor the Beadle recognizes him (though the Beadle initially finds his face familiar, he seems to buy Mrs. Lovett's story). So how certain is Mrs. Lovett by the time, for instance, she gets "You do like a good story, don't you?"? I always see this scene as such a great opportunity for subtle work by the actress playing Nellie ....

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yes, when she sings about how "beautiful" the barber was in "Poor Thing," it seems pretty plain that she was in love with him in the old days -- when he was a happily-married young man with a wife and child, and she was not-so-happily married to her late husband. and she did hold onto those valuable razors, too, which suggests a sentimental attachment more than an expectation of his return, given that coming back to England from Botany Bay was close to impossible.

of course, that opens the door to another question: does Sweeney recognize HER when he enters the pie shop?! if so, shouldn't he worry about her revealing his identity, since he's a fugitive from justice and all? for a man who'd be hanged if his identity came to light, he's fairly bold about chatting up his former landlady face-to-face.

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Mrs. Lovett might well be the smartest person in the show in some ways, but she repeatedly and consistently blinds herself to the fact that the man with whom she's so in love is insane. From the moment he starts singing that his razors will drip with rubies, she has all the evidence she needs to know that he's mad as a hatter -- but she keeps deluding herself into believing that she can make him love her and that they will create a fantasy family together. This single-minded passion is what, to me, makes her a really tragic character, just as obsessed in her way as Fosca is in PASSION. Indeed, she's so obsessed that she betrays the trusting, innocent Toby, whom she really does love and who really does love her, when she realizes that he knows too much -- she tries so heartbreakingly hard to talk him out of his suspicions during "Not While I'm Around", but when she realizes how certain he is and realizes she has to choose between passion and maternal love, she chooses Sweeney and lures Toby down to the bakehouse with the clear intention that he's never going to leave it alive to tell his story.

I really always wish the show were called MRS. LOVETT! To me she's much more complex than Sweeney himself.

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She is incredibly smart but barely sane. I agree she is like Fosca in many ways but for very different reasons. I believe both are manipulative and extremely intelligent with the difference that Nellie Lovett is mad and Fosca pretends to be mad (in my opinion) to take advantage of her weaknesses. I also agree that Lovett's tragic flaw is her obsession to make Todd love her, but is precisely because of this major obsession that I believe she knows who he is from the second she sees him. I doubt that this obsession merely develops when the show starts, it is probably safe to assume that her infatuation has only been growing for all the years Barker has been gone (and even before he was shipped off); perhaps she even sings "Poor Thing" to every male customer that comes to the shop hoping it's him (there is absolutely no textual evidence for this, I'm just speculating), this would mean she doesn't know who he is until she sees his reaction to the song.

about the why play games, it gives us, the viewers, more background information than if she just came out with saying i knew it was you.

hmm, Skittles post got me thinking. How is it that Lovett is the only one that knows that the Beggar Woman is Lucy?

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She's a Dyke!?
I can relate to Loving someone who has been instationazilzed'
It's a great story
Keep posting..
Someone correct me quick.

Updated On: 8/28/06 at 11:59 PM