Why is Los Angeles

[Timon3]

Posted: 1/21/23 at 7:59pm

Such a small theatre city, compared to New York?

I know Los Angeles is smaller about half the population of New York. Where New York has as we all know has a bustling theatre scene with many theatres and shows that sit down for a very long time.

Conversely the opposite happens with Los Angeles, it has 2 main theatres and several smaller ones, which non seem to sustain a long run. LA may take a touring show for a couple of weeks, a show rarely runs longer.

So why would this be please?

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/21/23 at 8:23pm

This is a larger question related to the history and heritage of these two cities. The film industry made Los Angeles what it is today, and live theatre has always been second-fiddle to that. New York, on the other hand, developed an audience as the premiere place for legitimate plays/musicals/operettas/vaudeville in this country in the 19th-20th centuries; in turn, those venues have stayed around, and NYC has remained a hub for live performance.

If many of the houses had been demolished decades ago leaving us with, say, 10 Broadway theatres, I dare say the live theatre industry would look QUITE different today.

[Jmuep2]

Posted: 1/21/23 at 9:56pm

It's a great question, one I've seen debated in many places -- including the LA TIMES. I've heard a lot of ideas floated, but a couple of my top-line thoughts having lived there for years:

• Los Angeles doesn't have a central place that feels like the center of everything. Even "downtown" LA is so far from much of the rest of the city, there isn't a physical part of town that is a natural place for a theater district and is easily accessible.
• Likewise, accessibility is a real problem. The city is so spread out, getting from west LA to northeastern LA can sometimes take over two hours in rush hour. Since there's no comprehensive public transportation, getting from home to the theater can be a real slog and you have to really want to see a show sometimes to put up with it. The parking situation at the Geffen, Music Center, Dolby Theater and Pantages doesn't help.
• I think as the previous poster mentioned, the film industry's place in the culture of the city is also probably a big factor. Early on, movie starts transitioned over from the stage and they didn't want to go back because it looked "bad" on their careers. So when a city is full of actors who don't nurture stagecraft in their own backyard, it has a subliminal impact on the city.

I'm sure someone who is much more familiar with LA history can weigh in with their opinions, but those are the prevailing theories I've seen. Whatever the reason, it's a real shame. The lack of genuinely good, interesting theater work in LA is acute. I always tell people the best original theater in LA was in San Diego. 

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 1/22/23 at 4:40am

I guess I would ask the question why SHOULD Los Angeles be a major theater city when that's clearly not its primary show business industry? Why does Los Angeles have half a dozen huge film studios each with dozens of sound stages and numerous smaller ones and yet New York with thousands of available actors and billions of dollars in available capital only has a mid sized one in Queens and not much else?

New York has a history dating back to the 1600's and a history of live theater that actually got its start in the 1700's and grew in the 1800's. Without the means to record performances, that was one of the main forms of live entertainment as the city's population grew. It also experienced an influx of immigrants from various points in Europe that were involved in theater in their homelands and sought to recreate theater to feel more at home, the growth of the Yiddish theater being a perfect example. Over the years, people who were interested in performing in that medium gravitated there filling the city with available talent to continue its growth. Los Angeles on the other hand, although founded in 1781 was a small town largely until the early part of the 1900's when silent films and then talkies were all the rage and the city experienced explosive growth but unlike New York, that growth did not include a sizeable portion of European immigrants with a tradition of live theater in their blood. But Los Angeles had the talent, the resources of people moving west to build a career and plenty of cheap land and labor to build film studios. Most importantly, it had a year round temperate climate which made location shooting much more economical than almost any other place in the country with few filming days lost to bad weather, so it's logical that the film industry grew up there and became the dominant show business industry. 

So, just because Los Angeles is a show business town, there's no reason it should be expected to have a live theater scene that rivals Broadway any more than New York should be expected to have a film and television industry that rivals Southern California.

With that said, if you think the Los Angeles theater scene is "2 main theatres and several smaller ones", you clearly don't know the Los Angeles theater scene. You have the huge houses like the Pantages and the Dolby in Hollywood, the Ahmanson in L.A. and the Segerstrom in Costa Mesa that dwarf the size of any Broadway theater and get the tours and periodically sit down productions that can last several months to occasionally several years. You have a number of quality midsized theaters, most of which would satisfy the seating capacity requirement to be considered Broadway theaters like The Mark Taper Forum, The Kirk Douglas, The Geffen, The Pasadena Playhouse, La Mirada Theater, South Coast Rep and a number of others that host excellent original productions some of which ultimately transfer to Broadway or Off-Broadway and then you have dozens and dozens of smaller 99 seat theaters putting on some outstanding shows that would rival almost any off-Broadway house often with recognizable names from TV and Film who want to keep busy in between movie and TV projects. Some of the pre-eminent 99 seat houses are the Odyssey with 3 theaters, the Road Theater Company, East West Players, A Noise Within, the Echo Theater Company and dozens of others too numerous to mention. And I haven't even included anything going on in San Diego, just L.A. and Orange County.

So there's plenty of great theater in Los Angeles if you know where to look. Does it have 41 500+ seat theaters to rival Broadway? No, but there's no reason why it should.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 1/22/23 at 1:24pm

I don’t think anyone was debating theater size? But you sort of proved your own point. I don’t know anyone in Pasadena who is casually going to Costs Mesa for an evening show. With traffic, etc, that’s a whole day wasted. 
 

LA is just super spread out. But, without the Pantages as I haven’t seen a show there, I thought the parking for the Gergen and the Center Theater Group downtown were terrific. The downtown group you pay as you arrive so getting out is pretty quick. The Dolby parking sucks. Imagine an entire theater all waiting in various lines to pay for their parking. A mess. 

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:47am

SouthernCakes said: "I don’t think anyone was debating theater size? But you sort of proved your own point. I don’t know anyone in Pasadena who is casually going to Costs Mesa for an evening show. With traffic, etc, that’s a whole day wasted.


LA is just super spread out. But, without the Pantages as I haven’t seen a show there, I thought the parking for the Gergen and the Center Theater Group downtown were terrific. The downtown group you pay as you arrive so getting out is pretty quick. The Dolby parking sucks. Imagine an entire theater all waiting in various lines to pay for their parking. A mess."

 

I was responding to the OP's comment which I specifically quoted "2 main theatres and several smaller ones" trying to point out that there were numerous theaters in size that would qualify as Broadway sized houses, not just 2 or 3. So yeah. it seemed to be a question about theater sizes. And my list is not meant to be complete, just the ones I personally know to be doing consistently good work.

Unlike New York, almost no theaters in L.A. do weekday matinees. Instead the 8th performance if they do 8, is Sunday evening so you've got 4 weekend performances to choose from. If you live in Pasadena and want to see a show during the week, of course you're not gong to drive to Costa Mesa on a weeknight. You see something in Downtown L.A., Hollywood, North Hollywood or Burbank. But a weekend drive down to Costa Mesa is normally about an hour give or take each way so an hour down, a 2 hour show and an hour back is hardly having to waste a whole day. People from Orange County drive into the city on weekends to take advantage of the nightlife all the time without a second thought. Doing the reverse commute is really not that big of a deal. And if you did want to make a day of it, you can do a little shopping at South Coast Plaza or drive down to Newport Beach, have a nice dinner and then take in a show.

The thread is about the number of and the quality of theaters in L.A., not about how easy it is to park at each theater but most theaters, especially the smaller ones, have fairly easy nearby parking in small lots or on street within a few blocks for free. As you point out, Center Theater Group downtown has a great garage right under the theaters and it's easy to get into and out of quickly. I've seen shows at the Dolby several times. There are numerous small on street lots within a 3-5 block radius that are super easy to get in and out of quickly and cheaper than using the Dolby's garage if the wait to get out of that is problematic.

I'll be the first to admit L.A. and Orange County can be challenging to get around but if you've done it enough, you learn a few tricks about the best routes and where to park quickly and cheaply and then it becomes much easier. But none of that changes the point of my post which was that there is plenty of great theater to see in the L.A. area if you know where to look.

[David10086]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 2:10am

Great question and answers! I learned so much about the entertainment history of both NY and LA. Thanks! 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 7:29am

UncleCharlie said: "SouthernCakes said: "I don’t think anyone was debating theater size? But you sort of proved your own point. I don’t know anyone in Pasadena who is casually going to Costs Mesa for an evening show. With traffic, etc, that’s a whole day wasted.


LA is just super spread out. But, without the Pantages as I haven’t seen a show there, I thought the parking for the Gergen and the Center Theater Group downtown were terrific. The downtown group you pay as you arrive so getting out is pretty quick. The Dolby parking sucks. Imagine an entire theater all waiting in various lines to pay for their parking. A mess."



I was responding to the OP's comment which I specifically quoted "2 main theatres and several smaller ones" trying to point out that there were numerous theaters in size that would qualify as Broadway sized houses, not just 2 or 3. So yeah. it seemed to be a question about theater sizes. And my list is not meant to be complete, just the ones I personally know to be doing consistently good work.

Unlike New York, almost no theaters in L.A. do weekday matinees. Instead the 8th performance if they do 8, is Sunday evening so you've got 4 weekend performances to choose from. If you live in Pasadena and want to see a show during the week, of course you're not gong to drive to Costa Mesa on a weeknight. You see something in Downtown L.A., Hollywood, North Hollywood or Burbank. But a weekend drive down to Costa Mesa is normally about an hour give or take each way so an hour down, a 2 hour show and an hour back is hardly having to waste a whole day. People from Orange County drive into the city on weekends to take advantage of the nightlife all the time without a second thought. Doing the reverse commute is really not that big of a deal. And if you did want to make a day of it, you can do a little shopping at South Coast Plaza or drive down to Newport Beach, have a nice dinner and then take in a show.

The thread is about the number of and the quality of theaters in L.A., not about how easy it is to park at each theater but most theaters, especially the smaller ones, have fairly easy nearby parking in small lots or on street within a few blocks for free. As you point out, Center Theater Group downtown has a great garage right under the theaters and it's easy to get into and out of quickly. I've seen shows at the Dolby several times. There are numerous small on street lots within a 3-5 block radius that are super easy to get in and out of quickly and cheaper than using the Dolby's garage if the wait to get out of that is problematic.

I'll be the first to admit L.A. and Orange County can be challenging to get around but if you've done it enough, you learn a few tricks about the best routes and where to park quickly and cheaply and then it becomes much easier. But none of that changes the point of my post which was that there is plenty of great theater to see in the L.A. area if you know where to look."

Disagree. There is theater. But it’s hardly comparable to nyc. 

You would think there might be more celebs doing shows just given the location but alas. But I’m not an LA fan. Too spread out and too much traffic. Will never beat the accessibility of nyc. 

[KConradG]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:27pm

SouthernCakes said: "The Dolby parking sucks. Imagine an entire theater all waiting in various lines to pay for their parking. A mess."

You can buy a parking voucher at the box office after the show.

 

[pethian]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:50pm

As UncleCharlie mentioned, LA is a young city. In 1900, there were barely 100K residents there while in NYC at that time there were 3.5 million and the theatrical tradition was already well established here.  That, accessibility, and the dominance of LA's film industry, I believe, account for the disparity between the two cities regarding their respective  theatrical experience.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:55pm

You can buy a parking voucher at the box office after the show.

^ never knew that--thanks!

Anyone familiar with Downtown LA knows that back in the 1920's/ 30's, LA had a very vibrant Vaudeville/ live theater scene, and whaddaya know-- the street the theaters were clustered on is in fact BROADWAY. Valiant preservation groups and the odd dance party have managed to keep open several of those amazing houses in tact. The best of them include the Los Angeles, the Palace, the Orpheum, the Tower (newly reopened as an Apple Store), the Belasco, the Mayan, and the Ace Theater (where BABYLON's party scene was filmed) originally known as United Artists Theater. At the time the glorious Pantages was the true outlier, popping up way out on Hollywood Blvd.

Back in the 80's when I first lived in LA, the pre-eminent theater house was the Shubert out in Century City, prior to it's obliteration for the present CAA building.

Anyway it's incorrect to think LA has never supported live theater. And yeah, I wish there were more than 4 or 5 houses for first-class productions today. Still, my favorite homegrown production of 2022? The brilliant revival of ASSASSINS at the ever-adventurous East West Players. 
 

Updated On: 1/23/23 at 01:55 PM

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 2:37pm

It is kind of amusing to imagine if the Broadway theatres were spread out like they might be in Los Angeles - Funny Girl playing up in Yonkers, Hadestown in Staten Island, Hamilton out in Massapequa...

[joevitus]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 2:37pm

Updated On: 1/23/23 at 02:37 PM

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 1/24/23 at 3:37pm

SouthernCakes said: "Disagree. There is theater. But it’s hardly comparable to nyc.  You would think there might be more celebs doing shows just given the location but alas. But I’m not an LA fan. Too spread out and too much traffic. Will never beat the accessibility of nyc."

I never claimed Los Angeles theater beats New York or is even comparable to New York. No other American city is comparable to New York's theater scene. Even outside of the U.S., maybe London is and that might be it for the rest of the world.

Again... I was just responding to the OP's comment that L.A. theater is nothing more than "2 main theatres and several smaller ones" which is not true. There is plenty of excellent theater in the L.A. area but of course, not as much as New York City. No one was bringing up commute times or parking except you. Too inconvenient to park? Too much of a hassle for you to not have 30 theaters within a 10 block radius to pick from? Then don't go. That doesn't invalidate that there are numerous theaters in the L.A. area and that there is plenty of excellent theater happening for people who understand that living there involves driving, sometimes a lengthy distance to do just about anything. Ever try to get into and out of a Dodger game? It takes a while but 45,000 people do it every game. People understand how getting around L.A. works and have accepted it as part of choosing to live there and aren't trying to claim it doesn't exist cause it's not super convenient. You seem to have misconstrued or misunderstood almost every point I was trying to make. Not sure what to tell you but I'm done trying to clarify..

[Timon3]

Posted: 1/25/23 at 5:53am

I think great points have been made by everyone on this thread, especially other factors that make theatre difficult in Los Angeles, such as transportation and geography and how spread-out Los Angeles is!

I will use San Francisco in the same state as a good example, San Francisco has a similar theatre scene to Los Angeles, with the size and quantity of theatres, Hamilton had a similar run time in both cities. Los Angeles is 5x the size of San Francisco though.

I also noted that public transport is/was very poor in Los Angeles, however in the last decade there has been great improvements such as the subway extension and also the regional connector. Getting to theatre is a big factor whether people attend or not.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 1/25/23 at 7:33am

But have you taken the trains in LA? Yea they exist but oof they’re scary at times. Especially late night after a show.