Why were so many lyrics cut from "UggaWug" in recent verisons of Peter Pan? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 9/24/11 at 6:52pm
I've been in a community production of Peter Pan, in the licensed vocal score as of 2009, it was definitely "Ugga Wugga Meatball."
#28
Posted: 9/24/11 at 10:00pm
Ugga Wugga Meatball sounds like something a naive child would say. The fact grown men deemed it acceptable enough may not say a thing about whether those men were actually racist or not but it does illustrate how enlightened we've become as a whole compared to those days.
Incidentally, suspension of disbelief to the point we make believe the show was written by a naive child isn't possible, nor is it possible to 'fancy' away the problems caused by narrow mindedness in thee real world. And that's good because suspension of disbelief doesn't necessarily require complete stupidity. What an awful thing to suggest about the live theatre experience.
Incidentally, suspension of disbelief to the point we make believe the show was written by a naive child isn't possible, nor is it possible to 'fancy' away the problems caused by narrow mindedness in thee real world. And that's good because suspension of disbelief doesn't necessarily require complete stupidity. What an awful thing to suggest about the live theatre experience.
Recreation of original John Cameron orchestration to "On My Own" by yours truly. Click player below to hear.
#29
Posted: 9/24/11 at 10:11pm
So what is more offensive, the use of Ugga Wugga or an Indian girl dressed as a hooker? When I saw Pan as a kid, I thought the Indians were cute and silly, not stupid. They were much smarter than the pirates, who were sexist white pigs.
I believe in correctness and breaking stereotypes but I guess you have to choose your battles. And the "men" who wrote it included two women, Caroline Leigh and Betty Comden.
I believe in correctness and breaking stereotypes but I guess you have to choose your battles. And the "men" who wrote it included two women, Caroline Leigh and Betty Comden.
#30
Posted: 9/24/11 at 10:14pm
What difference does it make if it was women or men who wrote it?
Are you suggesting something SEXIST??? Ooooh!!! LOL.
I kid.
Are you suggesting something SEXIST??? Ooooh!!! LOL.
I kid.
Recreation of original John Cameron orchestration to "On My Own" by yours truly. Click player below to hear.
#31
Posted: 9/24/11 at 10:36pm
Forgive my ignorance on this matter. I haven't been involved with a production of Peter Pan since I was in third grade. Does the book actually specify that they're Indians? Couldn't someone conceivably do a production where they aren't running around in animal hides with feathers in their hair and war paint on their skin? Would that take away some of the sting of the lyrics or just be dodging the issue? If you physically dress the characters in red costumes, for example, and have them take on a different manner of speaking than the stereotype, would that alleviate some of the tension? Just wondering.
I listen to the original version of Ugga Wug and kind of cringe at the mish-mash of stereotypical Native American music and boisterous showtune. Separately, they sound fine to me; together, they're a mess. I do think the shouts and "woo woo" noises from the ensemble are just as offensive as an "ugga wugga meatball" but the dance version of the song in the newer tour just sounds better to me than the original. It's sounds more cohesive and looks like a nice production number.
I listen to the original version of Ugga Wug and kind of cringe at the mish-mash of stereotypical Native American music and boisterous showtune. Separately, they sound fine to me; together, they're a mess. I do think the shouts and "woo woo" noises from the ensemble are just as offensive as an "ugga wugga meatball" but the dance version of the song in the newer tour just sounds better to me than the original. It's sounds more cohesive and looks like a nice production number.
#32
Posted: 9/24/11 at 11:02pm
I was in a production of Peter Pan this summer; the British musical version, not the Mary Martin. No Ugg a Wugg in that.
Updated On: 4/12/18 at 11:02 PM
#33
Posted: 9/24/11 at 11:21pm
"By the way, can anyone explain how a bunch of Native Americans got to Neverland?"
They didn't. I know you meant it satirically but these are Indians as reinterpretated by Broadway from what early 20th century Brits imagined and mythologized Inidans to be. But I know you know all that. The same way the pirates are.
That said, I do get why it's problematic, and I think it's a bit too glib to just say changes are to make it PC (and it's not really any more offensive than What makes the Red Man Red from Disney, particularly since, in the original, Jerome Robbins went out of his way it seems to make it clear this was a child's view of Indians from cowboys and indians type games--down to the sneakers and blonde hair).
When I was 10 and first saw the Martin Peter Pan I admit I didn't really like it at all, and I did find Ugh a Wugh in terrible taste, lol. Now, twenty years later, it kinda doesn't bother me and I do enjoy a lot of the Robbins staging.
(That said the Robbins staging of Ugh a Wugh as seen in the original kinescope of the live tv airing he directed--not the psuedo recreation done a few years later that's easily seen--is pretty blah, it's definitely not a highlight of the show. I actually do prefer the Rigby take on it).
They didn't. I know you meant it satirically but these are Indians as reinterpretated by Broadway from what early 20th century Brits imagined and mythologized Inidans to be. But I know you know all that. The same way the pirates are.
That said, I do get why it's problematic, and I think it's a bit too glib to just say changes are to make it PC (and it's not really any more offensive than What makes the Red Man Red from Disney, particularly since, in the original, Jerome Robbins went out of his way it seems to make it clear this was a child's view of Indians from cowboys and indians type games--down to the sneakers and blonde hair).
When I was 10 and first saw the Martin Peter Pan I admit I didn't really like it at all, and I did find Ugh a Wugh in terrible taste, lol. Now, twenty years later, it kinda doesn't bother me and I do enjoy a lot of the Robbins staging.
(That said the Robbins staging of Ugh a Wugh as seen in the original kinescope of the live tv airing he directed--not the psuedo recreation done a few years later that's easily seen--is pretty blah, it's definitely not a highlight of the show. I actually do prefer the Rigby take on it).
Updated On: 9/24/11 at 11:21 PM
#34
Posted: 5/23/13 at 10:43pm
On my trip to New York this past week my family visited an old college friend of my mom's. Her husband saw Mary Martin play the role when he was a little boy. He later found the VHS performance and was so glad to have it. His wife, who is a history teacher, never understood what was so politically disrespectful about the "Indians" song or "Ugg-a-Wugg". She learned about this late her life as well.
#35
Posted: 5/31/13 at 4:07pm
Besides the PC thing, I believe the goal was to go closer to the original Barrie play/story/etc, and make the show a bit more realistic as opposed to the pastel/dayglo world of the original production.
I saw the Rigby tour when it was in St. Louis last, plus having Rigby on vhs, and the show honestly took a more serious approach than the Martin version. Now, I love the show, no matter what form. That being said, I find the Rigby version the more realistic of the two, and buy into her being a boy more than I ever did with Martin. Plus, one of the most important things about the relationship between Peter and Tiger Lily is that she holds feelings for him in some form, shown in the scene after Ugg-a-Wugg, when he and Wendy are discussing how he sees her.
I saw the Rigby tour when it was in St. Louis last, plus having Rigby on vhs, and the show honestly took a more serious approach than the Martin version. Now, I love the show, no matter what form. That being said, I find the Rigby version the more realistic of the two, and buy into her being a boy more than I ever did with Martin. Plus, one of the most important things about the relationship between Peter and Tiger Lily is that she holds feelings for him in some form, shown in the scene after Ugg-a-Wugg, when he and Wendy are discussing how he sees her.
#36
Posted: 5/31/13 at 10:17pm
Would this issue be any less troubling if the Indians were Chinese and had a song where they all hop around, buck-toothed, chanting "ching-chong ah-so meatball"?
#37
Posted: 6/1/13 at 7:18am
Better yet, let's change them to African natives, chanting "Yassa, massa, ah sho loves me some fried chicken and watermelon!"
#38
Posted: 6/2/13 at 11:53pm
wait back up
eennie meenie miney mo is racist?
to whom? Tigers?
Explain.
eennie meenie miney mo is racist?
to whom? Tigers?
Explain.
#40
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:04am
#41
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:12am
Now google is racist?
Is no one safe?
Is no one safe?
#42
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:12am
In my production of Peter Pan, Cardinal Hook (not captain) is attempting to bed Peter with the help of his priests. Peter and he Altar Boys bravely resist and I replace Ugga Wugga with this speech:
"You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations. Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our bracelets by the road sides, you will play golf, and enjoy hot hors d'oeuvres. My people will have pain and degradation. Your people will have stick shifts. The gods of my tribe have spoken. They have said, "Do not trust Cardinal Cook."
And for all these reasons I have decided to scalp you and burn Neverland to the ground.
"You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations. Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our bracelets by the road sides, you will play golf, and enjoy hot hors d'oeuvres. My people will have pain and degradation. Your people will have stick shifts. The gods of my tribe have spoken. They have said, "Do not trust Cardinal Cook."
And for all these reasons I have decided to scalp you and burn Neverland to the ground.
Updated On: 6/3/13 at 12:12 AM
#44
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:15am
Unfortunately growing up in the early 60's, it wasn't a tiger we caught by the toe. As un PC as it is, that Sandy Duncan clip from the Macy's Day Parade in the 70's is wonderful!
Those Blocked: SueStorm. N2N Nate. Good riddence to stupid! Rad-Z, shill begone!
#45
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:21am
I hate to sink to your level but
F*CK you back Phyllis Rogers Stone
and your politically correct twat.
F*CK you back Phyllis Rogers Stone
and your politically correct twat.
#46
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:23am
Also, you're welcome. Since I answered your question. 
#47
Posted: 6/3/13 at 12:39am
Even as a small child in a fairly progressive 60's household I was bewildered by Eeny Meeny Miny Mo and Little Black Sambo. Since the tigers turned into butter and Sambo's mother made him pancakes for dinner I asked my mom if she was Aunt Jemima.
#48
Posted: 6/3/13 at 1:07am
Joe,
I grew up with a Sambo's Resturaunt in my home town. Complete with mosaics on every wall depicting Sambos many adventures with his tiger, Tamers.
Great pancakes.
I grew up with a Sambo's Resturaunt in my home town. Complete with mosaics on every wall depicting Sambos many adventures with his tiger, Tamers.
Great pancakes.
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>>
“I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>>
-whatever2
Updated On: 6/3/13 at 01:07 AM
#49
Posted: 6/3/13 at 4:15am
More political correctness run amok. The PC thought police won't be happy until every piece of art is vanilla and gentle. Sickening.
This is a charming number that children love. Shame on those who denigrate it.
This is a charming number that children love. Shame on those who denigrate it.
#50
Posted: 6/3/13 at 4:42am
lovebwy,
I have to offer a counterpoint, because I don't feel that this is a matter of PC or un-PC.
Robbins' concept for the show / adaption / production was a children's fantasia.. child-like interpretations of playful pirates and indians, et al. He also helpsnto shoehorn in "Mysterious Lady" which was a take off of a Barrie moment, but drastically reconceived to show off Martin's soprano and create a duet for Martin and Richard.
I think the changes to "Ugg-a-Wugg", and to much of the rest of the show in it's revisions, have been on a steady tack to return the musical to the roots of Barrie and what he created, and the tone he crafted, which I find far more interesting.
To be sure, the changes need to continue... "Ugg-a-Wugg" is somply the greatest OBVIOUS change (aside from the cutting - thank GAWD - of "Mysterious Lady").
I have to offer a counterpoint, because I don't feel that this is a matter of PC or un-PC.
Robbins' concept for the show / adaption / production was a children's fantasia.. child-like interpretations of playful pirates and indians, et al. He also helpsnto shoehorn in "Mysterious Lady" which was a take off of a Barrie moment, but drastically reconceived to show off Martin's soprano and create a duet for Martin and Richard.
I think the changes to "Ugg-a-Wugg", and to much of the rest of the show in it's revisions, have been on a steady tack to return the musical to the roots of Barrie and what he created, and the tone he crafted, which I find far more interesting.
To be sure, the changes need to continue... "Ugg-a-Wugg" is somply the greatest OBVIOUS change (aside from the cutting - thank GAWD - of "Mysterious Lady").
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