You might as well cast a 'REAL' woman as Edna !- Page 2

[artscallion]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 11:54am

I'd say she's played by the man for the same reason that Peter Pan is played by a girl."

I know you aren't being literal when you say they are played that way for "the same reason." But just to expand the topic to cross-gender casting as a larger issue, I think you’re right when you say that. Certain characters hold a certain dynamic about them in the context of the story that is better served by cross-gender casting.

As for Peter Pan:
- The role is too difficult for a child to play well.
- in the audience's minds, at the subconscious level at which they accept the character, it works because only a woman will never grow up to be a man.

So, I agree that Edna is played by a man for the same reason. Again, not literally, but in as far as the same dynamic could not be achieved without cross-gender casting.

If Edna were played by a woman, the character would not seem as grotesque and out of place in the outside world. Only a man can bring out all the things that are seen as the antithesis to the ideal, easily socially accepted woman in her time (tiny, pretty, clean, stylish.) Sure you could find a woman who is not all of thos things. But you can really bring something to it with a 6'2" 400lb man that you can't with a 5'10 250lb woman.

Divine played this best and as I feel Waters intended the role to be played. She was tall, enormously fat, dirty, greasy and sloppy. You kind of knew she smelled like cheese. She needs to be like this to echo and contrast as her generation’s version of what Tracy could have become if she hadn't grown up in the 60s with a loving and accepting father.

[Wildcard]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 12:16pm

The problem with Edna is that it's not a terribly exciting role. She actually doesn't do much. The challenge for the actors comes from having to play her as a woman. It makes her more dimensional and exciting.

[JonathanGroffislove]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 4:25pm

John Waters orginally wrote the role of Edna to be played by a man. and it's to make the character more funny i guess.

[MaxVonMayerling2]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 4:33pm

John Waters wrote the role of Edna originally for famed transsexual Christine Jorgensen. However, when the role of Tracy had to be rewritten, John Waters also rewrote the role of Edna in order to keep his friend and muse Divine in the production
(according to imdb)

Also we have to keep in mind the pictures of Michael Ball are all AFTER his "transformation".
We don't know yet what he'll look in the very beginning.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 4:42pm

Sueleen - I agree whole heartedly and I would like to add that the more apparent the drag aspect is early in the show, the more magical and effective the transformation during Welcome to the 60s (though the only pictures of Michael Ball are post-transformation, so it is hard to tell what he looks like early in the show).

I'm not sure how I would feel about a woman playing the role. I guess it would depend on the actress, the direction, and the performance. I mean, there is a small part of me that would love to see what someone like Roseanne could do with the character of Edna. And I would like to see if it would make the scene where Edna tries to talk Tracy out of the audition more heartbreaking and realistic. It would add a new dynamic to the character, but it could go either way. Regardless, the role was originally written for a man and is a loving tribute to the origins of the character and I think it should stay that way.

[musicalkid]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 4:58pm

apart from the fun and cute joke that it is, I find having Edna played by a man adds another dimension to the "moral" of the story.

the story tells us of social acceptance of people who are different, ie. weight, color etc.

I find that having a male Edna adds the issue of Gender and sexual preference. although Edna is a "real" woman leading "normal" man-woman relationship- inm order for the audience to see this relationship as believable and acceptable, they have to look beyond the fact that edna is played by a man.
in other words, they have to accept a man dressed in women's clothes to make this family and this woman "legitimate".
I find it a beautiful and very fun way to make this point.

hope i got my point through.

[gypsy4]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 4:58pm

it's the joke of the whole show if a real lady played the role the show would be horrible
Updated On: 8/23/07 at 04:58 PM

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 5:45pm

I have always seen Edna as a large Woman from the fifties. I never saw Divine as anything other than a "Woman". I thought that was who he is. So the part could be played well by any good Actor and that is the real point. As long as they are large, good spirited and real! It's the real part I see lacking in many of the Stage renditions of the role.

Having grown up around large Women who were the "salt of the Earth " as well as the whole Sunday Brunch idea put together, I find it offensive too, when the part is made to look too pretty.

I am completely turned off from ads that show Edna as some glamor spoof, trying to be a spokesmodel. Please! You couldn't find a decent dress for a large Woman back then! I lived with it, I know! It's all they talked about!

It is her spirit and character that makes Edna endearing. Tracy could never find the will to challenge the roles given to her if her Mother wasn't Edna. It offends me, when Male Actors can't accept the fact that Edna is fat. Yes, she is. With that, comes all the bad, nasty stereotypes along with it. Lazy, unkept, overfed and undereducated. Little pity and hardly any room for love. Yet Edna defies them all by being responsible, loved and a pretty good Mom. Only Men try to beautify Edna because of their own insecurities. Then they don't shave, wear dirty clothes, don't brush their hair or flush the toilet.

It's life and what I loved most about Edna, was she was someone that I knew. Someone that I liked because she didn't need a fancy dress or great vocabulary to impress me. She had the wisdom of the ages, a great sense of humor and she could cook well! Just more of her to love. She also made sure I knew, no matter what anyone ever said, I was wonderful and no one could ever take that away from me except myself.

Now that is what Edna and Hairspray was to me. I don't like it when Men, who aren't really transsexuals or transvestites take the role and dress it up. It is her heartache, her weight troubles and how she lives with all of this prejudice on a day to day basis that makes Edna a real character to me.

[jo]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:16pm

I think it is only incidental that Michael Ball turns out to be a fairly attractive EDNA. When he was much younger, as the original Marius in Les Mis more than 20 years ago and as Alex in Aspects of Love a little later, Michael used to be described as "cherubic -looking" with those dimples and curls...so it is not suprising that he would turn out to be a fairly good-looking Edna.

More recently, Michael has shown a great flair for comedic roles, although he is more often hailed for his fabulous musical theatre voice. But if you ever saw Patience ( New York City Opera) where he played Bunthorne, The Woman in White as Count Fosco, and the English National Opera's Kismet where he played Hajj, you will be struck by how much he has developed as a character actor and how he can do comedy with a flair. I think this is probably one of the more important factors as to why he got the role. Plus he does have a thrilling voice - a high baritone ( which Marc acknowledges...and for which he promises to suit the vocals to show off this asset) and an ability to ring in the sales at the West End box office.




Updated On: 8/24/07 at 10:16 PM

[Stewpot]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:23pm

And the "waitresses" at Lips and Lucky Chengs should just be real women too. Jeez.

[Midoria]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:31pm

Artscallion, I'm totally your fangirl from now on.

Well, at least of your mind. =)

[chinto1984]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 6:04pm

Of all the Edna's I've seen. They don't look like real women. They look like men in drag. Michael Ball is attractive in drag unlike Bruce Valanch. John Travolta didn't do Edna in drag. They used prostectics instead of doing drag make-up. I don't think John Travolta did the best job as Edna. I think he made some bad character choices. There were moments were he did well as in "You Can't Stop the Beat." He tried to make his voice sound legit instead of doing a character. The movie tried to play to a very wide audience. The producers made the movie more "straight" by not putting Travolta in actual drag and taking out a lot inuendos. The took a lot of queerness out.

[RevolutionaryCostume]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 11:07pm

Harvey Fierstein IS a real woman.

~Jacob.

[BrianIdol]

Posted: 8/24/07 at 11:33pm

chinto1984-

u are absolutely right.....i think it's very sad that Hollywood has to make things more "straight" so it can be accepted. And John Travolta said (when he was on Oprah) that he wanted Edna to be as feminine and beautiful as possible - he obviously missed the whole point of the role.

Posted: 8/25/07 at 5:50am

If an audience completely accepts Edna for who she is, whilst being aware that it is a man playing her. That breaches one of societies biggest steotypes. It would change the dynamic of the character to have Edna played by a women. An audience could feel uncomfortable laughing at a women, rather than with a man playing a woman because we are all in on the same joke.( gawd this is getting confusing)

Although a thin woman in a fatsuit could possibly get away with it because the audience would know that she was not that big really and would then feel free to laugh at her. I think the role would lose more than it would gain under those circumstances.

It will be very interesting to hear what Michael does with Edna's voice.

[WickedBoy2]

Posted: 8/26/07 at 9:03am

No! Edna is a Broadway legend created by a Broadway legend. It will always be remembered for that fact.

[Undeniably Bway]

Posted: 8/26/07 at 9:19am

Edna is a cult film icon re-created on Broadway by a Broadway legend (Harvey).

Updated On: 8/26/07 at 09:19 AM

[Corine2]

Posted: 8/26/07 at 10:44am

Theater Diva,
I love you but that little old lady really needs glasses if she thought Bruce looked like a woman.
That made my day.

PS Travolta playing the role as a woman pleased the movie executives. The film is US friendly in say some of the less open minded conservative states. It has become "BUSH friendly" if you get my drift.
It made over 100 million dollars but I believe the film sells out. But money makes the world go around.
Sad but true.

Updated On: 8/26/07 at 10:44 AM

[WickedBoy2]

Posted: 8/26/07 at 11:19am

mmmm i never thought about what Micheal Ball will look like before Mr Pinkys pool of youth! That will be a picture to see. Harvey looked so funny at in the first scenes. A real iron logged woman.

[Mealz1042]

Posted: 8/26/07 at 7:37pm

I agree with the OP, the whole point of having it be a man is A) a tribute to the movie and B) supposed to be funny, its a certain type of comedy that they're trying to acheive and Harvey was perfect for the role.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 8/26/07 at 7:49pm

I don't understand how the point of Edna being played by a man is lost just because they try so hard to make the guy look like a woman. I mean, all the Ednas I have heard/seen have sounded like men depite the "look."

[BrianIdol]

Posted: 8/26/07 at 9:07pm

millie-dillmount ---

John Travolta is trying to sound like a woman - and he kinda does succeed. That's a fact.