changes between the original and revised merrily?

[Inigomontoya]

Posted: 9/14/12 at 4:47am

So I just read on another post(bad or odd set designs) about merrily we roll along, and on a side note of one of the poster he talked about changes between the original production and the revised one. especially about making Frank into a character who does not make any real mistakes.
Can anyone please explain the difference in the versions to me, and are they any other changes? I know for example that they cut the last scene of the speech and that the show ends now after "Our time"

Thanks.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 1:16am

Gee, I sure am living up to my username. There are several major differences (and a bunch of minor ones) between the final version of the Broadway show (as far as I know - the bootleg is missing a portion of two scenes) and the current revision. Here's a scene-by-scene rundown.

-The graduation framework is completely gone. In the original version, "Old Frank" just about has a nervous breakdown while giving a desperate commencement speech to a class of valedictorians (including a student who plays Frank throughout the rest of the show), who, annoyed and distressed, swarm the stage to re-enact his life and discover just what the hell happened to him. The title song was originally sung by the valedictorians, which explains why it cuts so abruptly to the next song.

-Speaking of which, the original number that kicked off Frank's doomed party that makes up the next scene was radically changed. I'm opinionated and so I hate it but I can't disagree (with Sondheim himself, natch) that it fits the revision script better. In the new number, That Frank, Frank's friends talk endlessly about him when he's not there, and then lavish him with praise when he is. It's all about mindless sycophancy (Mary calls them "perfect blanks") and there's a sort of cultish vibe.

The original number, Rich & Happy, moves almost in the opposite direction. Here we have a group of friends who are pointedly sycophantic to Frank's face but have their own little beehive that he's partially excluded from. These people are, with some additions and subtractions, The Blob, who Gussie, in Act II, describes as being everybody who knows everybody and so here we have two different versions of the social elite being presented. In the original version they're a group of people (lawyers, agents, tv hosts) who leech off the rich and famous (actors, producers, directors) and bask in the reflected wealth. When talking amongst themselves we get lyrics like:

"So we bought this little condominum..."
"So we found this little Chinese gardener..."

And then it closes with an orgy of celebrity worship ("And on the covers of magazines and in the columns and on the screens...").

Really it comes down to whether you think the Blob would really spend all their time talking about whomever it is they're currently attached to (those "So we" lines are kept for That Frank, only now the lyric goes "I said 'Frank this picture is a watershed'", "I said 'Frank one day you'll run my studio" and the song ends with an orgy of praise - "If you had no idea what charisma meant, and you just can't be jealous he's such a gent, he's the kind of a man could be President, that Frank!") or if they'd simply ride along behind someone while preening at their little secret club. Personally I think it's the latter. The Rich & Happy scene itself went through a couple permutations, originally the number was much, much longer and instead of splashing Iodine in Meg's face Gussie pushed her into the pool, which, in keeping with the high-school concept, was a circle of blue butcher paper (I could swear there's a photo of it somewhere). That got laughs and they didn't re-introduce the iodine until the revision - the frozen Broadway version ends with Mary leaving.

The revision scene keeps going. Before Mary leaves she knocks over the bar and glass goes everywhere. Meg cuts her hand and someone goes to get iodine. Frank and the guy who wrote the script for his latest film have a conversation in which Frank says "Don't write what you know [he touches his forehead], write what you know [he touches his heart]". Then Gussie comes out of the woodwork and they have an ugly fight about Meg and Frank's ambitions and then Gussie attacks Meg with the iodine. There's a lot of clumsy dialogue here and I've heard it argued that Frank is simply an inarticulate character, thus lines like "She is the raft that keeps me from drowning", which I guess I can accept but it comes in conflict with the attempt to make Frank a relatable central character because he comes off like a total boob. It's just not quite there, not quite witty or incisive enough to justify that angle because, of course, we wind up siding with Gussie, which gets everything off on the wrong foot. Frank never seems to have an honest moment in this scene, when an honest moment, particularly in the quiet, intense, and personal argument between him and Gussie, is just what he needs. When everything goes to pieces at the end of the scene we haven't ever had any real glimpse of the Frank that once was, so when the chorus asks "How did you get to be here?", it seems obvious - by being a charismatic asshole. This is partially proven untrue by the rest of the show but it's certainly missing from that scene. Mary almost gets him there at one point but K.T. interrupts them with driveling praise and honestly, if their exchange had gone on two lines more I don't think this would be an issue.

-The TV studio sequence, which includes Like It Was and Franklin Shepard, Inc was originally split over two scenes, the first in the Polo Lounge where Charley tries to apologize to Frank but they wind up in fisticuffs (while I prefer the conglomerated TV studio version of this part I do enjoy the brutal sadness of seeing this exile of Charley play out, it's absolutely heartbreaking). The Polo Lounge scene at one point included Gussie, who flitted in to avoid Joe and sang a frenzied patter song called "Darling!", but this was cut. Much of the material was restored to the dressing room scene in the revision's TV studio sequence, though without the song (understandable - not only was it setting-specific, it was written for a broader, more cartoonish Gussie). The TV interview itself was put through a radical change here, too, which I also appreciate. Originally the interview segment was Charley-only, following an interview with Frank at the piano, and after that the two would come on together, but that never happens because Charley has his breakdown (which Frank watches from his place at the piano - he storms out at some point before the end of the song). Another change - in the original version Charley breaks down of his own accord but in the revision is pushed into it when he finds out Frank has signed a three-picture deal. This is also where we find the Polo Lounge fight. I think this is the most successful major revision change.

-There follows here the scene at Frank's empty apartment after he comes back from his post-divorce yacht trip. I can't speak as to what happens before "Old Friends", as the bootleg video has a mysterious blank spot there, though the very first version of the show had Frank mad at Charley and Mary for not being there for him after the divorce (they wanted to give him space, which turned out to be a mistake, as that space was filled by Gussie). Charley had been in prison over the draft and apparently written a series of influential political essays, while Mary had turned to writing reviews. Charley is horrified to find Frank has purchased a record label (another step on the road to being Incorporated, of course), which leads to Old Friends.Charley and Frank talk about their future and it's revealed that Frank has invited The Blob so as to publicize Charley's prison stint. Charley stays, reluctantly, only to be beaten up by inane questions and washed over by the endless babble (here was another "babble music" segment recalling Rich & Happy and the chatter at Gussie's party - on the audio bootleg this is titled "Radical Chic at Frank's" and it's pretty funny). However, on the video bootleg, while the first half of the scene is lost the second half plays out much like the revision one does - Gussie shows up, there's the joke about the fabric swatches (Gussie proclaims that she's "doing Frank's apartment in shades of anemone" and goes around putting swatches on everyone - "A chair, a chair...a footstool [Joe], and...a sofa [Mary]") and Mary's first drink.

The major change here, mostly in the first half of the scene, is the introduction of Frank Jr., someone we never saw in the original Broadway production and, frankly, I think that's a good thing because I hate his inclusion. It's mawkish, sappy, and untrue in that syrupy sort of mid-80s way, and dollars to donuts I can guarantee you this was another part of the attempt to make Frank likable. It's just such a cheap, obvious ploy. Anywho, the set-up for the scene is that Charley and Mary missed Frank coming off his boat - they didn't know there was a separate exit for first class. Frank gives them presents - Mary gets a copy of her book in Spanish and Charley gets an offer to turn Musical Husbands (their flashy hit show) into a film, which starts a debate that leads to Old Friends. Gussie and Joe arrive and the scene plays out and everyone leaves to go to the Downtown Club, where Frank and Charley had their first collaboration. Charley stays behind for a moment to make sure Frank's coming, which he says he is.

While waiting for his phone call (presumably from Gussie, who I think he was trying to call at the beginning of the scene) he noodles on the piano and launches into "Growing Up", a contemplative bit where he convinces himself that his life choices aren't all that bad, but he ends the song on a wistful note about old friends. But then Gussie shows up. She's sent a taxi home to get her stuff - she's leaving Joe. Frank tries to convince her otherwise, and in fact tries to break it off altogether but she begs him and sings her own Growing Up, in which she seduces him with her own logic ("Life is knowing what you want, darling, not on what you think you should...not on what you want to want, darling, not from force of habit...") and then goes into the bedroom while Frank phones the Downtown Club.

While I do like the dangerous sensuality of Gussie's "Growing Up" reverse reprise (she sings a different version in Act II), and I appreciate the exploration of Frank's inner logic in his piano solo, they both feel a little out of place, particularly Frank's number, which has a strange, glittering vapidity to it. I understand the musical logic - Gussie's song is a slower version of The Blob, and Frank's noodling is based off that, so while he thinks he's being true to himself he's still playing her song (even the "Charlie is a hothead" sequence is based off the electric piano arpeggio that underscores The Blob) - it just feels like the show is trying to do two things at once and it sort of runs afoul. Frank spends several minutes convincing himself that, while he's doing the right thing, he does need to see to his friends, and then is immediately seduced by Gussie, which cancels out Frank's song, which was already Gussie-influenced. It takes the responsibility away from him, so now the answer to the show seems to be "don't sleep with manipulative dragon ladies". We're promised an exploration on the personal mistakes that lead Frank to his downfall but the show keeps cheating with external influences.

-So here comes the courthouse sequence that ends Act I. Beth is (expensively) divorcing Frank, taking him to court to discover whether or not he really slept with Gussie (he did). There's a focus in the original version about "tapes" Beth is going to play and everyone keeps calling Frank "Phone Freak", whereas in the revision Gussie is being subpoenaed to testify in a closed courtroom. Eventually Beth comes out (I think they're on recess) and the revision plays out similar to the original, with the addition of Frank Jr. (Frank and Beth pull at him from both ends and K.T.'s photographer snaps a picture - K.T. later gives up the photos to Frank but says "You owe me"). The other switch is that in the finalized version Frank sings "Not A Day Goes By" when Beth asks him if he slept with Gussie. In the revision, Beth sings it when Frank asks her if she still loves him. This song was actually always written for Beth, but the actress who played her couldn't handle the song so they switched it. It's a desperate plea both ways but it works slightly differently depending on the version - in Frank's hands it's a desperate, sad plea, and though the song was written for Beth it does help to fill him out a bit, making him a little more sympathetic, while in Beth's hands it's an illustration of the damage he's done, which is also heartbreaking. In any case, both quiet moments are shattered by the revelation that Frank did, indeed, sleep with Gussie.

Beth flees, leaving an abysmal Frank all by himself. His friends rush in to comfort him ("Living well is the best revenge..."). There are lyrical differences between the two versions - the revision focuses more on getting him to go somewhere on his own where he won't have to think about anything, which is just a nice way to get him on the yacht. Mary is the only one who provides any actual insight in the babble of less pointed advice phrases ("Feels like an ending, but it's really a beginning"). In the original version Mary's advice is a little tougher ("Burn your bridges now and then, you should burn them every now and then or you'll never grow"), whereas in the new version it's a little plainer but stands out against everyone else, whose only suggestion is to try to forget for a while. In both versions Mary is sort of washed out by Frank's friends but joins in in the end anyways. The original, too, had a dance break, which has never been included in any other version.

-I can't say much about the frozen version of the It's A Hit scene because it's mostly absent from the bootleg but this scene didn't get any major changes, even from the first draft. However, before the scene starts, there's an addition of Gussie's version of Good Thing Going from the Musical Husbands broadway show, which is (purposefully) cheesy as hell. Once again, nearly the only mature talent we get to see of Frank's composing is some version of Good Thing Going.

-Gussie's party, meanwhile, underwent mostly additions (one joke that has persisted throughout- Frank panics about people smoking marijuana and Beth says "Oh! I've smelled that before, in the village! I thought it was autumn."). In fact, it's surprising how little this scene changed between being frozen on Broadway and the revision. "The Blob" is put back in (it was cut in previews) and the scene in the greenhouse is a little rewritten (losing a funny bit about "NOCD - that's 'Not Our Class, Dear'") but now the Trading Hostages bit leads into Gussie's first Growing Up, in which Gussie convinces Frank to do a big fast vehicle for her (Frank thought they'd been invited so Joe could option "Take A Left", the political show they'd been working on for two years - Gussie's response is "Well, you can do this one much quicker").

It's a good song. Once again it dims Frank's own choices but it's early enough in his life that it makes sense for him to be "turned" by an attractive figure. He is, also, immediately subjected to the humiliation of the following scene, in which Gussie has him play Good Thing Going for the The Blob, who adore it so much they demand they play it again, and then lose interest halfway through. Some additional dialogue is thrown in here before Good Thing, mostly explaining why Mary was late ("I had to borrow a dress from the...guy upstairs."). As a side note, I think "Good Thing Going" is one of the best things to happen to the show when it's cast young. In this second act we start to run into issues if the show is cast with seasoned adults because it's so hard to recapture the energy and hope of youth (even Raul Esparza couldn't quite manage it).

-This next scene at the Downtown club has a few shifts put to it. The opening number was originally "Thank You For Coming", another momentary home for the Good Thing Going melody, but by the time it went into previews it was preceded by Bobby & Jackie & Jack (which I hate, but only because it gets stuck in my head so often). Bobby & Jackie is another place where a youthful cast is a boon because, again, it's a youthful song and it plays so well when the actors are in their early 20s. Here we have the addition of Tyler, who tries to sell Joe on the idea of an answering machine (he eventually gets rich off the idea - it's his yacht Frank sails around the world on). In previews on Broadway he showed up in the Polo Lounge to give Frank a demo record, but he was excised before it was frozen. Anyways, Joe turns him down (and tells him to come back with a really good idea, like 3D movies, which is a joke in need of an alternate, given how huge an industry 3D movies are now). Some things get shifted around a bit - Mary no longer takes Beth's parents backstage, Joe is there with Gussie, who loves their music (we also get some background - she worked as his secretary, then he fixed her nose, clothes, and name).

The most important loss here is of "Honey", one of the sweetest songs I think Sondheim ever wrote. It took place backstage, right before the wedding, and was designed to bookend the first Not A Day Goes By (after which they'd go onstage to get married) and besides being sweet it is incredibly honest and, in a show that's all about irony, unironic. It somehow floats above the unpleasantries of the show and exists in its own innocent bubble of optimism, which is why I like it so much, it allows us to see right to the youthful heart of Frank and does a great deal to humanize him. I sincerely wish it had been slipped back in when they revised it. Because it was written in two parts, re-inserting it (presumably after talking to Joe) would require some kind of bridge, which could lend itself to a little romantic dance between Frank and Beth.

"Not A Day Goes By", meanwhile, has been through a couple permutations. Obviously, the first version was Frank singing it to Beth backstage between the two halves of Honey, but with the subtraction of "Honey" it was transferred to Frank during the marriage, where it becomes a duet with the lovesick Mary. In the revision it became a trio, with Beth thrown into the mix.

-I don't think Opening Doors has ever had any changes made to it, ever. There was, however, a really nifty sousa-like march connecting this scene to the next that I totally adore (I've always had the idea to re-insert it and have the cast march, parade, and dance across upstage in silhouette - a march of youth).

-There are a couple dialogue changes made to the Our Time scene, most notably in the very beginning where Frank says he "wasted" two years in the military, which was changed to some reverse exposition about the show they never get around to doing (I take issue with this only because it reduces their entire exchange to a couple silly jokes that don't lead well into Our Time, and because it feels like they just wanted to wrap up another loose end and made a sloppy sacrifice). The scene is mostly taken up with the song, though, which is fortunately beautiful and perfect and all those other good adjectives.

-The final scene, bookending with the first (both of which were cut from the revision) brings us to the 1955 graduation. There are a number of changes here. In the draft and preview, since there was no Old Frank, there's no tie-in to the first scene. At some point down the line, Old Frank was added and along with that came the idea to "save" him at the end. This is something that went through a couple permutations and was never quite finished. The concept was that the scene would open on Young Frank giving his optimistic valedictorian speech, the pauses in his speech filled by Old Frank's faltering 1981 speech, and then Old Frank would stop his speech and sync up with Young Frank, only with different accompanying emotions. Thus we can understand that he is presumably going to be making a few changes in his life. You can hear this on the OBCR (my favorite moment is when Young Frank says "Charles Kringas" and Old Frank pauses before the surname and kind of echoes it out in the pause, laden with sadness). Then Young Frank turns and conducts his group in singing "The Hills Of Tomorrow" (which we hear the tail-end of at the beginning of the show), after which he turns forwards and smiles (as does Old Frank) and the group has their picture taken. The curtain falls.

I take issue with the removal of the bookends not because I'm an obsessive completionist (the last thing I want is a "fully restored" Merrily - I'm not a hoarder) but because they give the show depth. Without them, without Old Frank's realization, the show becomes a relatively flat cautionary tale and while cautionary tales are fun they are also, by their very nature, simplistic. The current Merrily isn't really about Frank in the same way that a Grimm's Fairy Tale usually isn't really about the protagonist, but the addition of the bookend gives Frank an option, and puts the whole show in the context that it requires. Even John Doyle's production tried to fill this hole by having Frank's grown-up son read his notes and journals because there needs to be something outside of Frank's downfall. On that note, my issue also isn't that I want a happy ending. The end of scene one is the plot's conclusion, but it's not much of a conclusion at all. Frank stands, speechless, watching his life crumble (in my xeroxed copy of the script he actually spreads his arms and yells "WHYYYYYY", which is, thankfully, absent from the Kennedy Center production, of which I have a video), the end? There's just a sort of unsatisfying void there and including some kind of closure doesn't make the show any less dramatically invalid (using Frank Jr as a mechanical device for acquiring sympathy, however, does).

I can't believe how long this turned out to be but it was nice to sit down and really think out my issues with the show's revision.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 1:18am

Whoa!

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 1:48am

^Would any of that make more sense if I read it backwards?

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 2:53am

It's not impossible! Haha. It might be a little dense, looking back at it. Some helpful videos (video of the Broadway production is from a bootleg taped post-preview, audio is from an audience tape at the second preview).

First off, here's a full video bootleg of the original show:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6ED29EBC8550381F&feature=mh_lolz

It's an eight-part playlist. The video quality isn't superb, the audio gets pretty crummy somewhere around the middle of Opening Doors, and the better part of two scenes are missing but at this point it's better than nothing.

Clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRGxJfBOhw - Rich And Happy video (the song only)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nfrbduBYMs - That Frank video (from the 2002 Kennedy Center Sondheim Celebration production)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hDDWHvypZw - Darling! audio (Gussie's cut scene in the Polo Lounge)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOjmenBx-EI - Honey audio (I cut out the central bit, which was Not A Day Goes By)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcIEtYzWc6g - Rich & Happy preview audio (the original sequence, which has the same base as the shorter final version but with a number of interesting extra passages added)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jsun1hXCX4 - The "Historical" Transitions audio (the transitions between scenes were originally a sort of carnival of references to then-current events, such as the Cuban missile crisis - "Cuba has missiles, Washington bristles, there go the good cigars!")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m5ViVUfv6k - Now You Know Dance Break video (see? it's pretty good)

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 7:40am

Wow, Charlie, that really was going above and beyond the call of duty! But thank you for the recapitulation. It's been 3 decades since I saw the original and one decade since I saw the revision. I really appreciate the refresher course.

To me, the irony is that while they struggled to make Frank likable, one of my problems with the show is that he isn't unlikeable enough to merit Mary's disappointment or to deserve the despair he seems to feel at the top of the show. Okay, he traded in one wife for another on the way up. And he became a successful producer instead of a composer: I never understood why the writers assumed we would see that as some sort of crime.

Updated On: 9/15/12 at 07:40 AM

[Inigomontoya]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 8:42am

Wow! Charlie thanks for the help! I didn't expect to get such an elaborate answer!

by the way, I was under the impression that there are 2 different bootlegs of the original Merrily, maybe in the second version you could find the missing scenes that you want to see.

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 9:42am

CHARLEY...WOW...that was so amazing from you...THANK YOU SO MUCH!...i have only heard the OBCR and never got to see the show on Broadway as it closed in 1981 before i moved to NYC in 1982...i love the OBCR so much it has become my favorite SONDHEIM score...i have seen a revised version put out by George Furth in the early 2000's before he passed away ...it was done in concert form in los angeles, and it was AWFUL...it among many things did not have the bookends with THE HILLS OF TOMORROW...which for me work better on the audio than the revised beginning and endings in the revisied version...

once again THANK YOU...you have helped me see the musical better fro what it was and what it became and what it coulda shoulda been

the SONDHEIMMANIAC...

[Amalia Balash]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 1:23pm

Thanks so much! The explanation and bootlegs are so helpful.

But I still don't like Frank. I needed to be shown what an amazing talent he was to be worthy of such adulation and I never got it. I love Good Thing Going, but that alone was never enough. So I've always seen Frank as someone who was talented at using people to advance and discarding them when they weren't useful any more. No matter how the show is revised, that's what I'm left with.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 1:34pm

In Finishing the Hat, Stephen Sondheim quoted Herman Mankiewicz (brother of Joseph and co-screenwriter of Citizen Kane), who described the show's central problem aptly back when it was just a Kaufman/Hart play:

"Here's this wealthy playwright who has had repeated successes and earned enormous sums of money, has mistresses as well as a family, an expensive town house, a luxurious beach house and a yacht. The problem is: How did the poor son of a bitch get into this jam?"

He went on to explain that he likes stories about unsympathetic characters because he trusts the author to tell him why they interest that author. And then he and George Furth absolutely failed to tell us why the hell they cared about this guy at all themselves.

That's why it won't work, no matter how much one revises it. We don't know why they care, so we don't care. (Leaving aside for the moment the confusion that reverse chronological order engenders in the unprepared. Having never seen it played in forward chronological order, I can't tell if that would improve our ability to care about the character, but I doubt it, so I won't blindly recommend it as I used to in the past.)

Updated On: 9/15/12 at 01:34 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/15/12 at 4:43pm

Charley, that's an AMAZING post that I've saved.

The main issue as Tunick says in the new liner notes, is that everyone involved seemed to think they were writing a different show than what they wrote. The goal seemed to be to do a youthful musical, even a "Hey, let's put on a show!" Judy and Mickey type show, and that was the excitement for Hal Prince in particular. And yet the show they wrote was pretty bitter, even depressing--and for some reason nobody involved seemed to realize that till it was being performed.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 9/19/12 at 2:13am

Eric:

It definitely was going in a lot of different directions and reminds me a little bit of how Sondheim's first song sketches for A Little Night Music were much darker and Hal had to say "now wait, that's no good" (they were in the direction of Chekhov, apparently). There are also lots of reports of Hal's overweening ego exploding during production, which I'm sure didn't help. There are also a handful of stories about how the show seemed great until the curtain went up on an intensely hostile audience so I can definitely imagine a kind of energetic bubble during production (particularly with all those young, enthusiastic actors around).


g.d.e.l.g.i.:

You're absolutely right. Frank is really hard to care for and the Act I Growing Up doesn't help (particularly with Gussie immediately reversing it). I don't think anything will ever help Frank, which is why I've always preferred the option of putting the focus on Mary and Charley for those first two scenes, really showing where Frank has taken them (which they do in the dressing room scene in the TV studio segment - "You gotta help save me, then, Charley" is such a great line). I don't think playing it in chronological order would help things, and I don't think the reverse timeline is really all that confusing (and pinning its failure on that is to insult the audience).

Amalia:

If Frank's talent at using people was pushed more to the forefront and the authors were more willing to give him an edge in the first couple scenes I think it would be a more interesting play because nasty people are interesting - a nasty Frank, a Frank who lashes out more. And yeah, there's always the issue that we only ever hear two songs from his catalog.

Inigomontoya:

I've heard that too, and I once saw someone on a message-board say that they once uploaded a video of "Honey", but that it was down (unfortunately that board is Finishing The Chat, which is weirdly stingy about allowing in new members, so I've never been able to contact that member). Needless to say if anyone knows whereabouts I can get my mitts on a copy of a preview video I'd go to town putting it up on Youtube because frankly I think it's too important to be squirreled away in the trunks of traders.

GavestonPS:

I agree, partially. Frank's endless avoidance of Take A Left is a mark against him but we sort of have to take Charley at his word when he breaks down on TV. We never see Frank absorbed in phone calls, just as we really don't see Frank abandoning his friends. Things keep happening off-stage like that, so they lose their importance (maybe there should be "Knee Plays" a la Einstein On The Beach that are composed of moments like that, haha). There's just a lot of word-of-mouth.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/19/12 at 3:39am

Charley, Finishing the Chat--prob the forum I spend the most time on (which I'm sure means some on here would never care to join), can be kinda cliquey, with a small group of regular posters after it was made much harder to join due to a massive spamming thing a few years back, but joining should be fine now. Send me a message if you have issues...

I remember seeing Honey online--but that was a few years back...

[newintown]

Posted: 9/19/12 at 11:29am

I think the only thing you left out (and perhaps you didn't) was that Gussie in the original was a vulgar blue-blood socialite, and in all the revisions is a vulgar social climbing actress. I'm not sure why that change was made, except that the writers maybe thought vulgarity makes more sense in an actress than a rich gal.

One of the original cast once posted a home movie on Facebook of Terry Finn running "Darling" with the orchestra in the theatre (without staging, sets, or costume). Interesting to hear the song, but easy to see why it was cut.

I think that characters like Gussie (over the top, funny, vulgar, id-driven) appeal to writers a bit more than they should, because they're so fun and easy; but they can derail the central focus of a show if you give them too much to do.



Updated On: 9/19/12 at 11:29 AM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/19/12 at 1:18pm

I've only seen the easy to find video of the original production--but several stagings of the revised version, and I think in general they just wanted to amp up the role of Gussie--so I guess making her an actress allows her to be more involved--she seems to have significantly more on stage in the revised versions. I agree that it does kinda throw the focus off.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/19/12 at 1:22pm

She had a lot more material when the original went into rehearsals as well, it just kept getting cut.

[Owen22]

Posted: 9/19/12 at 2:05pm

"-The TV studio sequence, which includes Like It Was and Franklin Shepard, Inc was originally split over two scenes, the first in the Polo Lounge where Charley tries to apologize to Frank but they wind up in fisticuffs (while I prefer the conglomerated TV studio version of this part I do enjoy the brutal sadness of seeing this exile of Charley play out, it's absolutely heartbreaking). The Polo Lounge scene at one point included Gussie, who flitted in to avoid Joe and sang a frenzied patter song called "Darling!", but this was cut. Much of the material was restored to the dressing room scene in the revision's TV studio sequence, though without the song (understandable - not only was it setting-specific, it was written for a broader, more cartoonish Gussie). The TV interview itself was put through a radical change here, too, which I also appreciate. Originally the interview segment was Charley-only, following an interview with Frank at the piano, and after that the two would come on together, but that never happens because Charley has his breakdown (which Frank watches from his place at the piano - he storms out at some point before the end of the song). Another change - in the original version Charley breaks down of his own accord but in the revision is pushed into it when he finds out Frank has signed a three-picture deal. This is also where we find the Polo Lounge fight. I think this is the most successful major revision change."

Wow, I completely disagree. This is the change I hate the most and almost ruins the credibility of the show for me. We SO need a moment in time between the TV interview and Rich and Happy (That Frank) scene. Time is needed to digest what has happened to the relationships between the three and that scene is it. I don't believe the fist fight coming there in the studio, Charlie has just had a nervous breakdown, Frank is too flustered. The dressing room/studio scene is too constrained and rushes the emotions. HATE this revision!!!!!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/19/12 at 4:25pm

broadwaybabywannabee, did you see the LA-Reprise staged reading of the revision? It starred Hugh Panaro as Frank and Teri Hatcher as Gussie at the Freud Playhouse at UCLA.

Charley, the problem for me isn't that we don't SEE Frank producing, it's that I don't think producing movies is automatically selling out. Somebody has to do that job and it strikes me as romantic snobbery that the authors present producing as if it were Dr. Faustus selling his soul to the devil. (That is the basic story of MERRILY: Dr. Faustus in reverse.)

But I agree it has nothing to do with going backwards. Done in chronological order, the entire play would just seem even thinner.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 9/20/12 at 1:21pm

Plain and simple: they didn't show us why they care about Frank, so we don't. And you can't fix that no matter how many times you re-write. Putting the focus on Mary and Charley doesn't change anything except affecting how the first two scenes play. The rest of the show is still the same. We're not following them, or at least not them exclusively. We're following Frank, whose foibles some of us only wish we could luck into.

And because they don't show why they think his flaws are flaws (they aren't), or why they care (Sondheim pretty much says in his book that he finds unsympathetic characters interesting, and leaves it at that, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Frank), we don't care. It didn't work with Kaufman and Hart; it didn't work with Sondheim and Furth. Because as much as people carp about "selling out," and artists struggle with the same issue, we want to have more money than God. We want to be able to play and spend as we please. Everybody wants to rule the world, as Tears for Fears would put it. We can't feel sorry for him because a) he's an ass, and b) we envy his achievements.

I'll never understand why Merrily fans (and Sondheim, to a lesser extent) clutch the show like Lillian Hellman clutched her libretto to Candide saying something like, "The trouble with it is that it didn't fail!" It did. And it will. Love it all you like, but it's no better than the other denizens of Not Since CARRIE.

Updated On: 9/20/12 at 01:21 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/20/12 at 5:27pm

"Plain and simple: they didn't show us why they care about Frank, so we don't. And you can't fix that no matter how many times you re-write. Putting the focus on Mary and Charley doesn't change anything except affecting how the first two scenes play. The rest of the show is still the same. We're not following them, or at least not them exclusively. We're following Frank, whose foibles some of us only wish we could luck into. "

That's true, but I think the point people made is if you make it more about the journey of all three characters in general, not so much Frank.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/20/12 at 6:04pm

"Love it all you like, but it's no better than the other denizens of Not Since CARRIE."

Well, at any rate, it certainly has a better score than 2/3rds of the shows in that book... (and one that many audiences find moving and engaging).

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/20/12 at 9:50pm

That's true, but I think the point people made is if you make it more about the journey of all three characters in general, not so much Frank.

True, because I care very much about Mary (especially in the original) and even Charley. Beth not so much, so the added emphasis she seems to get in the revision doesn't move me.

[After Eight]

Posted: 9/20/12 at 11:20pm

"Well, at any rate, it certainly has a better score than 2/3rds of the shows in that book... "

Bull. Yeah, tell us do about the scores to The Student Gypsy, Tenderloin, or The Gay Life, and how inferior they are to this thing.


"(and one that many audiences find moving and engaging)."

Bull. Audiences hated it.

Updated On: 9/21/12 at 11:20 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 9/20/12 at 11:26pm

"But I still don't like Frank."

Very true. But you know what? Charley is an even more insufferable character than Frank, with his in-your-face know-it-all obnoxiousness.

The two of them make this show unsalvageable.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/20/12 at 11:27pm

An awful lot of people, including critics, commented on how much they liked a lot of the score--even if they hated everything else. You can just say that's the cult of Sondheim if you like, but it's not bull.

I actually have heard a lot of the shows in Not Since Carrie--as a teen for a while I made it my mission to try to find as many recordings as I could. Some are great scores--I love Tenderloin (which I never think of as a huge flop), Lolita, My Love, etc. But I stand by my personal opinion that Merrily's score is one of the better ones out of the books--particularly if we're comparing the other shows from the mid 70s to, say, 1990 or so when the book ends (I want an update!).