Joel Grey Comes Out Publicly: 'I'm a Gay Man'- Page 4

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 8:25pm

As Emma Goldman said, if I can't have sex I don't want to be part of your sexual revolution.

WHY has there been such a drift since the dawn of assimilationism to remove the SEX from homosexuality? And WHY DOES IT SEEM TO BE WINNING?

[acekatherineplumber2]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 8:52pm

Someone in a Tree2: No, I agree with you. Gender does not (necessarily) equal behavior (of various gender roles). Queerness, to me, is not being simultaneously straight and cisgender. As a queer person, I'm not entirely comfortable with people claiming a sense of queerness because of their performance of feminine ascribed gender roles.
The fact that I identify with a non-binary gender has NOTHING to do with how I present--I act and look very feminine and I was assigned female at birth, but mentally I do not feel like a girl.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 9:13pm

As Emma Goldman said, if I can't have sex I don't want to be part of your sexual revolution.

I believe the full Emma Goldman quotation is "If I can't have sex I don't want to be part of your sexual revolution...but sometimes it's okay just to cuddle, no?"

Updated On: 1/29/15 at 09:13 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 9:18pm

Theoretically I agree, although I see how cuddling can be the gateway drug to asexuality.

Updated On: 1/29/15 at 09:18 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 9:21pm

Just replying the close the html tag.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 9:30pm

"The fact that I identify with a non-binary gender has NOTHING to do with how I present--I act and look very feminine and I was assigned female at birth, but mentally I do not feel like a girl."

How do you know what it feels like… for a girl? How do you know feeling like a girl doesn't feel exactly the way you feel?

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:02pm

Namo, I'm certainly not anti-sex, and I'm not asexual by any stretch (although after 22 years with my husband, God knows we don't bone like we used to). But I do think being gay is a lot more than boning, and lots and lots of folks who for whatever reason don't have sex can still be thoroughly and actively gay.

Similarly one act of gay sex does not make someone gay, just as my college roommate's well-meaning schemes to have me sleep with the pretty coed down the hall sure didn't make me straight.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:03pm

Just wanted to point out that I wrote, "I have qualities some people (to my chagrin) view as 'feminine.'" I don't agree with people who think my love of musical theatre is "feminine." I think gender-assigning things like theater, sports, colors, etc. is stupid.

[acekatherineplumber2]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:16pm

"How do you know what it feels like… for a girl? How do you know feeling like a girl doesn't feel exactly the way you feel?"

Those are very good questions that took me years to answer. I became faintly aware five or six years ago that I was experiencing gender differently from the girls around me. I could not place anything specifically, but I had a constant vague feeling that something was off. At that point, I still thought a person could either be male or female, so I had no idea what to make of my feelings. Also, I was scared and suppressed them/gave them hardly any thought for several years. Roughly two years ago, one of my close friends came out as non-binary and I was intrigued by that, but also frightened at the thought that I might be trans. So for the last two or so years, I've done a lot of research into gender to make sense of things. Most of my friends are girls, so I've talked to them about how they understand their gender and I feel differently. (Also, I've had a few (like three altogether) very brief, but distinct moments, where I did feel like a girl, which was markedly different from how I almost always feel otherwise.) Once I understood that, I looked into specific non-binary genders that other people identify with and experimented with different labels until I found one that felt comfortable and matched my own concept of my gender. There is no way to know anything for sure, and gender can become very complex and personal and is significantly tied to personal comfort and I also do not presume to know everything--I am still learning more about it. But I have given this a lot of thought and I do not take my identity lightly.

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:27pm

^Wow, you've been very kind (and certainly very brave) to share this amount of intimate information on a board more famous for snark and vitriol than a compassionate ear when it comes to personal revelation. Good luck on your quest to discover all the facets of your true identity.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:29pm

"more famous for snark and vitriol than a compassionate ear"

You're not looking in the right places.

[acekatherineplumber2]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:36pm

Someone in a Tree2: I've lurked on these boards for a long time, so I've definitely seen the petty hatred that erupts on here sometimes, but I have quite a thick skin, so even if I were to get rude comments, I have enough confidence in myself that they wouldn't bother me too much at this point. I'd rather be honest than lie to make people like me. Anyway, thank you!

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:37pm

"You're not looking in the right places."

Namo, you're wrong, I always look in the right places -- I faithfully read every post of yours I can find.
Updated On: 1/29/15 at 10:37 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/29/15 at 10:58pm

I love you you crazy bugger.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 7:52am

I met a young man a couple of weeks ago in a bar who told me he wasn't attracted feminine guys and then talked for an hour about the virtues of Katy Perry and OMG Gaga!!! I tried to pick a fight with him about it, but it didn't end up working out the way I planned.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 7:53am

I tried to pick a fight with him about it, but it didn't end up working out the way I planned.

Meaning you went home with him anyway?

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 8:07am

Yeah, but I was ethically conflicted about it for, like, HOURS the next day.

[South Florida]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 8:26am

Heheheheh!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 9:53am

So I guess that means you're not feminine. At least, in the eyes of that Katy Perry/Gaga fan.

Updated On: 1/30/15 at 09:53 AM

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 10:13am

I guess so.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:22am

I met a young man a couple of weeks ago in a bar who told me he wasn't attracted feminine guys and then talked for an hour about the virtues of Katy Perry and OMG Gaga!!!

I love this phenomenon so much. Several years ago there was a poster on this board who took umbrage at me calling him "Girl." I felt that it was strange that someone whose avatar was a picture of him holding a Carol Channing doll while standing next to Carol Channing herself would take offense to that. Also, the boy on this board with a picture of Bernadette Peters wearing a tiara as his avatar who was looking for bars where he could find "real guys", too, so I feel like self-awareness ain't exactly a cornerstone of my gay brethern.

[haterobics]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:27am

I once had this really hot guy be all over me at a club, but he kept saying, "I don't even know why I'm coming on to you so strong, you're not even my type." After the second or third time, he said it, I was like, "I don't know what you want me to tell you... regret sleeping with me tomorrow then?!" But we ended up not hooking up, heh.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:36am

Yeah, it’s all pretty gross. I try so hard not to think in those terms – or, rather, not to make judgments or assumptions based on those terms. It’s hard when you’re brought up in a patriarchal society, like being raised in a racist family.

One thing I told him was, “If you were in a room with my brother-in-law and his friends, like, watching a football, I’ve got news for you – in that group, you’re pretty femme.” He didn’t like that. And I didn’t like saying it. But it addressed the reality of what he seemed to be oblivious to and how he’s just perpetuating that nonsense by not just buying into it, but espousing it, too. I don’t think I changed his mind, though.

Updated On: 1/30/15 at 11:36 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:42am

Sometimes the only thing you can say to these guys is "But you are, Blanche. You ARE."

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/30/15 at 11:44am

I would NEVER say that. But I might tell him my pal, Joey, told me to say it.