Phantom Closing?- Page 53

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 4/22/23 at 11:27am

I can’t believe Ben Crawford posted that stuff on Reddit. I mean, I can because his feelings are understandable. But to say those things publicly? I hope he didn’t further damage his career with those posts. At least he deleted them. Geez.

[Listener]

Posted: 4/22/23 at 2:16pm

Were they supposed to let him finish the show, though? With poor vocals and weird acting choices?

I get him feeling tossed out after 3 years...that's fair if he was fired/asked not to return...but it was also clear he couldn't end the show according to everyone's expectations.

[TBFL]

Posted: 4/22/23 at 4:43pm

Phantom4ever said: "TBFL, please don't talk about Harold Prince if you don't know what you're talking about. You said regarding Harold Prince:

He'd moved on. He'd done his work, was continuining to get paid for it, job done.

Harold Prince was well known for checking up on Phantom Broadway every few months, attending performances, giving notes to the actors, rehearsing them, and getting new leads ready. It was not a "job done" until his death.



"

I spoke to a friend at RUG and he said Hal hadn't been to the London production in years.

Interesting piece about the differences between NYC and London

https://thetheatretimes.com/the-house-where-phantom-lived-part-ii-her-majestys-theatre-london/

Updated On: 4/22/23 at 04:43 PM

[MSecaur]

Posted: 4/22/23 at 4:58pm

Just finished a fascinating two-part oral history of Phantom on Broadway and in London from The Theatre Times. Lots of great stories about the Majestic in Part I.

https://thetheatretimes.com/the-house-where-phantom-lived-part-i-the-majestic-theatre-new-york/

In Part II, James Paterson, an Original London Cast member of Phantom and long-time resident director at Her Majesty's, gives a lot of great insight, including his thoughts on Love Never Dies and the desecration of Maria's designs:

"...like taking Van Gogh’s Sunflowers and deciding to make the petals purple!"

"The original show of Phantom in Production and Design is an iconic piece of Art and it should not be interfered with! Make new ones if you must, but leave the original be!"

https://thetheatretimes.com/the-house-where-phantom-lived-part-ii-her-majestys-theatre-london/

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 4/22/23 at 6:03pm

Thanks for the links to those oral histories above. Fascinating and a great tribute to the show. (And in total contrast to the Reddit stuff of the last few days, which it puts absolutely to shame.)

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 4/22/23 at 6:51pm

TBFL said: "
I spoke to a friend at RUG and he said Hal hadn't been to the London production in years.

Then your friend is misinformed (which wouldn't be surprising, since RUG is frequently clueless). Hal had definitely visited the London production as late as 2017. He may have visited in 2018 but I don't know if he had been in London that year. Is your friend at RUG aware Hal died in 2019? A bit of a big ask to expect Hal to visit after that.

Since I was weirdly accused here of apparently 'making up' that there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic, I note a few ex-cast/crew have now taken to social media to say the same thing. Here, one actor says "people have been angry that now that the show is making so much money they are still closing it", and here, a member of the crew says "I felt better as Cameron Mackintosh stood on stage and teased a revival as 100s were losing their jobs".  I don't know either of these individuals personally, but their experience seems to fit in with what was told to me by others whose names I won't state here for obvious reasons. It's up to posters here whether they agree with these members of the production as to whether the sentiment was warranted, but the sentiment was there.

MCSecaur said: Just finished a fascinating two-part oral history of Phantom on Broadway and in London from The Theatre Times. 

It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour.

Updated On: 4/22/23 at 06:51 PM

[Penna2]

Posted: 4/22/23 at 7:42pm

The Scorpion said: "TBFL said: "

Since I was weirdly accused here of apparently 'making up' that there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic, I note a few ex-cast/crew have now taken to social media to say the same thing. Here, one actor says "people have been angry that now that the show is making so much money they are still closing it", and here, a member of the crew says "I felt better as Cameron Mackintosh stood on stage and teased a revival as 100s were losing their jobs". I don't know either of these individuals personally, but their experience seems to fit in with what was told to me by others whose names I won't state here for obvious reasons. It's up to posters here whether they agree with these members of the production as to whether the sentiment was warranted, but the sentiment was there.

I read the young woman's post and what she seemed not to understand (along with some posters here) was the show was losing money (and had been 3 months into the reopening) and it was only the announcement that it was closing did the money start coming in again. 

There seems to be some idea by those complaining about the show closing that there is some obligation to keep it open because people are going to be unemployed. When you work in show business that's the name of the game - looking for the next job because the one you have carries a time stamp of some sort. No job is guaranteed, particularly in theater, and those who worked for this show were particularly fortunate to have such a high level of job security.

From where I sit, I've never seen such a sense of immature entitlement, particularly from Ben. He'll be lucky to get hired again by anyone. So happy Laird got to close the show. 

 

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 6:59am

Penna2 said: "

There seems to be some idea by those complaining about the show closing that there is some obligation to keep it open because people are going to be unemployed. When you work in show business that's the name of the game - looking for the next job because the one you have carries a time stamp of some sort. No job is guaranteed, particularly in theater, and those who worked for this show were particularly fortunate to have such a high level of job security."

I think those involved, including the girl you mention, know shows close when they lose money. It's the teasing of the scaled-down revival so incredibly soon without leaving time for the dust to settle that has got everyone's backs up, since it simply suggests that they are going through the motions of what happened in London in 2020. And, as the composer and co-producer has said, that isn't necessary.

As she says in her Instagram post, it's 'bittersweet'. Or even 'sorry grateful', I guess.

But I agree with you about Ben Crawford. The posts were bizarre and I have no idea why he thought they were a good idea.

 

[MCfan2]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 11:27am

If I were an actor hoping to find another job, I would definitely not put it out there that I had played with my phone where audience members could see me during the show. I don't fault him for discreetly eating something to cool down if the heat was as intense up there as he describes. But playing with his phone ... there's no reason for that. 

[Danny1984]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 11:32am

The Scorpion said: "TBFL said: "
I spoke to a friend at RUG and he said Hal hadn't been to the London production in years.

Then your friend is misinformed (which wouldn't be surprising, since RUG is frequently clueless). Hal had definitely visited the London production as late as 2017. He may have visited in 2018 but I don't know if he had been in London that year. Is your friend at RUG aware Hal died in 2019? A bit of a big ask to expect Hal to visit after that.

Since I was weirdly accused here of apparently 'making up' that there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic, I note a few ex-cast/crew have now taken to social media to say the same thing. Here, one actor says "people have been angry that now that the show is making so much money they are still closing it", and here, a member of the crew says "I felt better as Cameron Mackintosh stood on stage and teased a revival as 100s were losing their jobs". I don't know either of these individuals personally, but their experience seems to fit in with what was told to me by others whose names I won't state here for obvious reasons. It's up to posters here whether they agree with these members of the production as to whether the sentiment was warranted, but the sentiment was there.

MCSecaur said:Just finished a fascinating two-part oral history of Phantom on Broadway and in London fromThe Theatre Times.

It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour."

 


No, sorry. You didn't say "there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic," you said "there is, or was, a lot of anger backstage the Majestic that that community was torn apart for no good reason other than for Cameron Mackintosh and Really Useful to open the show and hire newbies to do their jobs."

This has a completely different implication re the atmosphere backstage AND implies CM/RUG closing the show for no good reason. 

The atmosphere was fine. When ANY show closes, a percent of those involved in it will be unhappy, vent a bit online and will question if it needs to happen - that's human nature for a theatrical ecosystem. Your two quotes, outside of a scientific survey mean nothing. There are probably over 200 cast, crew, FOH, backstage, creatives etc etc involved/connected with the Broadway show. So all you've done is show 1% odd might have been unhappy. Big deal. 

I maintain your sweeping statement is completely incorrect. In fact all your posts just sound like you have a personal grudge against ALW and CM and you (mis)interpret everything in a not particularly convincing attempt to convince others to feel the same way.

Updated On: 4/23/23 at 11:32 AM

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 11:54am

Danny1984 said: 


No, sorry. You didn't say "there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic,"you said "there is, or was, a lot of anger backstage the Majestic that that community was torn apart for no good reason other than for Cameron Mackintosh and Really Useful to open the show and hire newbies to do their jobs." [...]
I maintain your sweeping statement is completely incorrect. In fact all your posts just sound like you have a personal grudge against ALW and CM and you (mis)interpret everything in a not particularly convincing attempt to convince others to feel the same way."

I think it's fair to say I should have said 'some' instead of 'a lot', but you didn't highlight the fact that I did say 'was', not just 'is'...anger always subsides (nor did you seem to acknowledge that there was at least some external basis for what I was saying; I don't just invent things). I will remember next to time to conduct a scientific survey for the purposes of a Broadway message board, as you have suggested. If quibbling over these words makes you happy, I'm totally okay with you maintaining whatever it is you want to maintain and it affects me in no way if you wish to disregard everything I said. 

 

Updated On: 4/23/23 at 11:54 AM

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 12:32pm

We should all be lucky to have defenders as loyal and relentless as Cameron Mackintosh has in this thread.

Who knew a billionaire producer needed people to get so angry and carry water on his behalf on a message board?

[Penna2]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 2:16pm

MemorableUserName said: "We should all be lucky to have defenders as loyal and relentless as Cameron Mackintosh has in this thread.

Who knew a billionaire producer needed people to get so angry and carry water on his behalf on a message board?"

Without Cameron MacIntosh there would have been no Phantom of the Opera (Les Mis, Cats...). That's what some of us are objecting to - that he's some sort of monster for not wanting to continue paying out money on a losing proposition. That they are likely going to reopen with a scaled down model is good business practice (or so it seems in the UK where it has been extended to March 2024) and people should be happy there will be those jobs again. Maybe not as many, but I suspect those backstage members who were recently let go will be the first considered for the new show when and if - it reopens and they are available. 

Back to my earlier statement - there is a real sense of entitlement surrounding those who benefitted from the billionaire's investment, as though by seeing the show and enjoying it (several times for many) or working on the show, getting paid an agreed upon salary believe they are supposed to be gifted in some other way. Bad Daddy won't let me have another cotton candy or ride on the Ferris Wheel. He can afford it.

Even Ben had the class to say he "loved" Cameron. Cameron gave him the job. Cameron, directly or indirectly gave all these people jobs. He has also produced other shows that gave people jobs and audiences hours of entertainment and pleasure. 

So, yeah, I have his back. 

[Danny1984]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 3:39pm

Penna2 said: "MemorableUserName said: "We should all be lucky to have defenders as loyal and relentless as Cameron Mackintosh has in this thread.

Who knew a billionaire producer needed people to get so angry and carry water on his behalf on a message board?"

Without Cameron MacIntosh there would have been no Phantom of the Opera (Les Mis, Cats...). That's what some of us are objecting to - that he's some sort of monster for not wanting to continue paying out money on a losing proposition. That they are likely going to reopen with a scaled down model is good business practice (or so it seems in the UK where it has been extended to March 2024) and people should be happy there will be those jobs again. Maybe not as many, but I suspect those backstage members who were recently let go will be the first considered for the new show when and if - it reopens and they are available.

Back to my earlier statement - there is a real sense of entitlement surrounding those who benefitted from the billionaire's investment, as though by seeing the show and enjoying it (several times for many) or working on the show, getting paid an agreed upon salary believe they are supposed to be gifted in some other way. Bad Daddy won't let me have another cotton candy or ride on the Ferris Wheel. He can afford it.

Even Ben had the class to say he "loved" Cameron. Cameron gave him the job. Cameron, directly or indirectly gave all these people jobs. He has also produced other shows that gave people jobs and audiences hours of entertainment and pleasure.

So, yeah, I have his back."

 

I totally agree with all of this.

 

Updated On: 4/23/23 at 03:39 PM

[JasonC3]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 4:43pm

Someone should start a pool for how long this thread remains in the top 50/on the first page here.

[TBFL]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 5:33pm

The Scorpion said: "TBFL said: "
I spoke to a friend at RUG and he said Hal hadn't been to the London production in years.

Then your friend is misinformed (which wouldn't be surprising, since RUG is frequently clueless). Hal had definitely visited the London production as late as 2017. He may have visited in 2018 but I don't know if he had been in London that year. Is your friend at RUG aware Hal died in 2019? A bit of a big ask to expect Hal to visit after that.

Since I was weirdly accused here of apparently 'making up' that there was at least some anger backstage at the Majestic, I note a few ex-cast/crew have now taken to social media to say the same thing. Here, one actor says "people have been angry that now that the show is making so much money they are still closing it", and here, a member of the crew says "I felt better as Cameron Mackintosh stood on stage and teased a revival as 100s were losing their jobs". I don't know either of these individuals personally, but their experience seems to fit in with what was told to me by others whose names I won't state here for obvious reasons. It's up to posters here whether they agree with these members of the production as to whether the sentiment was warranted, but the sentiment was there.

It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour."

So you're calling my friend misinformed, and yet you don't know for sure when Hal Prince was at the London production? You also stated that HP often popped in to give notes to casts etc and that I knew zilch when HP hadn't been in for years. And yet he HADN'T been in for years. Even by your reckoning, 2017  until his death in 2019 was at least 2 years without seeing the London production.

You seem very quick to correct people and make claims, you know what really happened, You know how HP would feel, you know better than the RUG....when as demonstrated above, you don't have any knowledge otherwise.

The actor you quoted above has been in the show since 2001. They allowed him to go off and do his own things, take a year off and come back again, and yet isn't aware it's only making money because it's closing?

The Instagram girl had already left the show and wasn't working on it when it closed. Why would she and 'the majority of former crew' be invited? Does she have any idea the number of former crew there have been? The majority of former cast weren't invited either.. If she really were such good friends with everyone, i'm surprised no-one took her as their plus 1 or guest....  She pointed out all the reasons why the show was closing. It costs too much, its out of date, the theatre is falling apart. and is bitter that it's receiving a complete overhaul now the show is closed... *eyeroll*

These people seem oblivious to the fact that people losing their job happenes in every show, in every job in the world. What makes the Phantom cast and crew extra special?

you also wrote "It's a shame both the interviewer and interviewee were unaware of the extent of what happened in London post-COVID, but it's clear James Paterson wouldn't have time for it. He is on the money re both LND and that 2012 tour."

How do you know they were unaware? It wasn't discussed or mentioned. Maybe he doesn't have a problem with because it isn't all that different. And no, I don't need to hear again all the aggrievances you have against the new productions, thanks.

 

[Penna2]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 6:01pm

JasonC3 said: "Someone should start a pool for how long this thread remains in the top 50/on the first page here."

Phantom does bring out the passion in people! I doubt Gaston Leroux ever thought his newspaper serials, later a book published in 1910 would create such an enduring and, yes, beloved character. 

The thread might last until the new one entitled Phantom Opening? is started.

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 4/23/23 at 6:35pm

TBFL said:

So you're calling my friend misinformed, and yet you don't know for sure when Hal Prince was at the London production? You also stated that HP often popped in to give notes to casts etc and that I knew zilch when HP hadn't been in for years. And yet he HADN'T been in for years. Even by your reckoning, 2017 until his death in 2019 was at least 2 years without seeing the London production.

Hal died in the summer of 2019. He was at the London show in late 2017. That is not 2 years. (He may well have been there in 2018, but I don't know). Saying Hal hadn't been at the show for 'years' sounds like he hadn't visited Her Majesty's in quite some time. 

The actor you quoted above has been in the show since 2001. They allowed him to go off and do his own things, take a year off and come back again, and yet isn't aware it's only making money because it's closing?

The Instagram girl had already left the show and wasn't working on it when it closed. Why would she and 'the majority of former crew' be invited? Does she have any idea the number of former crew there have been? The majority of former cast weren't invited either.. If she really were such good friends with everyone, i'm surprised no-one took her as their plus 1 or guest.... She pointed out all the reasons why the show was closing. It costs too much, its out of date, the theatre is falling apart. and is bitter that it's receiving a complete overhaul now the show is closed... *eyeroll*

These people seem oblivious to the fact that people losing their job happenes in every show, in every job in the world. What makes the Phantom cast and crew extra special?

I don't understand why you are conflating them with me. All I did was point out that these are people who were in the show and this is how they have said they feel. You have made it abundantly, condescendingly, and aggressively clear that you find their sentiments entirely unwarranted and stupid. I understand that, but I am not here to defend how they feel. They are not me. You should ask them.

How do you know they were unaware? It wasn't discussed or mentioned. Maybe he doesn't have a problem with because it isn't all that different. And no, I don't need to hear again all the aggrievances you have against the new productions, thanks.

It was, right at the beginning. The interviewer asks, Jim P says he doesn't know, and so forth.

I am not sure what set off your attitude here but I am rather bored with it. If you desperately feel the need to rip this post apart as well, then feel free; I think I am done.

MemorableUserName said:

Who knew a billionaire producer needed people to get so angry and carry water on his behalf on a message board?

Right? 

Updated On: 4/23/23 at 06:35 PM

[Lot666]

Posted: 4/24/23 at 10:04am

TBFL said: "Have you even seen the new London production? It's hardly downsized. It's had a few set pieces removed and some added and the orchestra cut in half. Unless you're an uber Phan and moan when they dust the set, then you really wouldnt notice any difference."

One needn't be "an uber Phan" to hear a near 50% orchestra reduction in favor of synthesizers.

Updated On: 4/24/23 at 10:04 AM

[Lot666]

Posted: 4/24/23 at 10:06am

Luminaire2 said: "Load out footage starting to appear from today:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMY7Ubk5A/

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMY7Ub51h/"

I'd really like to know where these items are going.

[Dylan Smith4]

Posted: 4/24/23 at 10:15am

Most likely storage. When I walked by the Majestic on Saturday, pretty much the only things left from what I could see were the glossy stage floor, the red curtain, the proscenium, and Ruthie II (the Chandelier). I hope Ruthie II goes into the Museum of Broadway. It needs a home where people can see the most iconic set piece of this show!

[Penna2]

Posted: 4/24/23 at 10:18am

Lot666 said: "TBFL said: "Have you even seen the new London production? It's hardly downsized. It's had a few set pieces removed and some added and the orchestra cut in half. Unless you're an uber Phan and moan when they dust the set, then you really wouldnt notice any difference."

One needn't be "an uber Phan" to hear a near 50% orchestra reduction in favor of synthesizers."

Then maybe instead of buying souvenirs, you can contribute to the salary of a musician. 

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 4/24/23 at 10:30am

Penna2 said: "Lot666 said: "TBFL said: "Have you even seen the new London production? It's hardly downsized. It's had a few set pieces removed and some added and the orchestra cut in half. Unless you're an uber Phan and moan when they dust the set, then you really wouldnt notice any difference."

One needn't be "an uber Phan" to hear a near 50% orchestra reduction in favor of synthesizers."

Then maybe instead of buying souvenirs, you can contribute to the salary of a musician."

Buying a souvenir DOES contribute to the salary of a musician. 

And we are comparing the changes in London to dusting the set? Yikes this thread really has jumped the shark. I'm not surprised though. The same thing happened on the British theater message boards where the pro-Cameron people just relentlessly supported him and the phans kind of eventually let it go and now everybody over there seems to be walking around going "It's the original 1986 Brilliant Original! They just dusted it!"  

Anyway, I have been watching the load out videos obsessively and one in particular really got my attention. I couldn't help but notice that they took out all the major and even minor set pieces but left Ruthie II and the proscenium. And in the latest video I saw, they started to take off the black coverings  BEHIND the proscenium but left the proscenium in place. I am sure there is some dull reason for this, but it sure makes my conspiracy theory antennas go up. 

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 4/24/23 at 11:31am

Eh, there always has to be someone defending our corporate overlords and justifying why they just HAD to cut jobs (while simultaneously collecting large bonuses and raising prices), no matter what industry is being discussed. They're best left ignored.

We're all just so lucky that Cameron Mackintosh kept the show running as long as he did, out of pure benevolence, even though it was such a massive money-losing bomb that it nearly drove him to bankruptcy. Such a kind, generous soul, that Cam.

[imeldasturn]

Posted: 4/24/23 at 11:41am

You need to have hearing issues not to notice the difference between 14 and 28 musicians. None of the London changes is an improvement and the orchestra sounds thin. It also used to be the only harp in the West End and it was sad to hear it go.