Toughest roles to sing- Page 2

[backwoodsbarbie]

Posted: 8/14/10 at 11:30pm

I totally agree that theatre is simple compared to opera, but its singers are (in general) less trained than opera singers. But since we are discussing theatre, I would say Eva from Evita and Mama Rose from Gypsy. And Valjean from Les Mis for men.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/14/10 at 11:35pm

Christine in PHANTOM honestly isn't that vocally demanding. I've known a few women who have done the role in New York and on tour and most feel they could have handled doing the role eight times a week, especially since some of the role is pre-recorded...

And the role might vocally be high by musical theatre standards, but if you ask any operatic soprano about the part, she'll likely roll her eyes. Its really not like singing actual opera - but than again there really aren't very many roles in musical theatre that are actually as difficult on the human voice as the basic roles in opera repertoire.

[BosBroad]

Posted: 8/14/10 at 11:40pm

What about Charity? It's not a tough score to sing on paper, but much is done while dancing (or it's supposed to be).

[backwoodsbarbie]

Posted: 8/14/10 at 11:44pm

Michael Bennett, I agree with you 100%. Aside from the cadenza in Think of Me and the final notes of the title track, Christine's vocal part actually sits quite comfortably for a musical theatre soprano. And most opera singers would scoff at this being called a "difficult soprano role" as the vocal timbre and color are extremely different.

[doombuggy25]

Posted: 8/14/10 at 11:46pm

70% of Christine's material is in her lower and middle registers. And with the exception of "Think of Me", which has ONE high C, all her other crazy high stuff is pre-recorded. I think except for the C in Think of Me she only goes up to the A flat under high C. For a true soprano, that's cake. So funny that Christine has an alternate, when Carlotta who really has some tricky, non recorded stuff doesn't.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/14/10 at 11:51pm

I agree - that precedence was obviously set for Brightman who wasn't a heavily trained singer and who had a rather delicate voice. I'm not sure why the production has continued that practice of double casting the part.

The Broadway role that has given more actresses vocal problems than probably any other is Eliza Doolittle. This has been discussed in other threads, but though her actual songs aren't especially rangy, something about the structure of MY FAIR LADY - the cockney, the singing, the rangy notes in the second act is just brutal on a woman's voice.

Almost all the women who played the role on Broadway and in London for long runs had major vocal problems navigating the part.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:02am

I actually don't think Cunegonde would be that difficult for a high coloratura soprano.

Opera roles are actually easier than MT roles IMO because they call for proper technique and usually roles are written for specific voice parts.

[bluebubbles]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:05am

Which of Christine's songs/parts are pre-recorded? And is it only on Broadway, or do the touring companies do it as well?

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:06am

Opera roles also weren't generally written to be performed 8 times a week,

I think a lot of current musical theatre writers have no idea how to write for the human voice at all...

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:08am

I actually don't think Cunegonde would be that difficult for a high coloratura soprano.

I think Barbara Cook said one of the most difficult things about the part (for her) was how Leonard Bernstein wanted the "Ha-ha-ha" passage of "Glitter and Be Gay" sung. Per wikipedia:

Barbara Cook: It was terrible how nervous I was. I'd been singing stuff like "I'll be loving you always", and here I was singing Cunegonde. You know what else is hard with that thing? Lenny insisted on the "Ha-ha-ha"s really being "Hha-hha-hha"s. No "Ah-ee-ah-ee-ah"s but "Ha-ha-ha-HA-ha-ha"s. And I was never, never able to do it the way he really, really wanted it done. He wanted the ...

Renée Fleming: You mean the aspiration?

Barbara Cook: Oh, that. I did do that. But what he wanted was the syncopation. So it would have to be [speaks, beating time], "Ha-ha-hahahaha. HAhahahaHAhahaha." You try that on for size. That's hard, because you are losing all that air.


Obviously it could be a problem that only Barbara Cook had, but it sounds like it would make for some difficulty singing.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:12am

Yes but remember Barbara Cook wasn't an operatically trained soprano...I'm sure its challenging music for anyone but I think Spork's opinion was that its not especially demanding in comparison to other coloratura parts which require huge lung capacity.

[backwoodsbarbie]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:15am

Aside from "Glitter and Be Gay," Cunegonde's role is not incredibly challenging vocally. And like bluebubbles said, for a properly trained coloratura, even this difficult aria should be manageable.

Michael Bennet--I totally agree with you about contemporary musical theatre writers having no idea how to create scores that actually accommodate the human voice. How often have singers ruined there voices singing R&H or Sondheim scores? Never, at least to my knowledge. Contemporary composers seem to compose for shock value, usually meaning high belting, with little regard for the vocal health of the singer. I'm talking to you Andrew Lloyd Webber for what you did with Eva Peron. The Legally Blonde writers also come to mind and Stephen Schwartz in terms of Elphaba.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:15am

Yes but remember Barbara Cook wasn't an operatically trained soprano...I'm sure its challenging music for anyone but I think Spork's opinion was that its not especially demanding in comparison to other coloratura parts which require huge lung capacity.

Point taken.


I also completely agree with what you said about musical theatre composers not knowing how to write for the human voice. I swear I heard/read Victoria Clark say somewhere that she was speaking to young composers who had no idea what a realistic soprano range was. How can they be writing songs when they don't know what can be done comfortably?

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:36am

I can't speak for all sopranos, but my personal problem with singing MT is most of the "money" notes are in my passagio. Sopranos are strongest in the upper range, and most MT songs (even soprano pieces) are just too low. At least they are nowadays, I should say.

Also, with MT you can't round out vowels as easily and some of the vowels those high notes are written on are just evil.

I definitely agree that most modern MT composers can't write for the human voice. That critique was made of ALW and I definitely agree. The PotO cadenza is crazy, for instance, not because it goes so high but because all of those notes are sustained in a row. It requires incredible stamina.

I know LitP was mentioned but I actually think Clara and Margaret are easy to sing for trained sopranos because Guettel actually writes them as soprano roles and they're not all over the place, like say Glinda in Wicked. Of course, the music itself isn't easy to learn, so maybe that's what people meant by that.

Updated On: 8/15/10 at 12:36 AM

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:46am

I can't speak for all sopranos, but my personal problem with singing MT is most of the "money" notes are in my passagio. Sopranos are strongest in the upper range, and most MT songs (even soprano pieces) are just too low. At least they are nowadays, I should say.

That's almost exactly what Patti LuPone said about Evita: almost the entire role sat in the passagio and it was nearly impossible for her to sing the role the way it needed to be sung. After singing that score incorrectly, I think she's lucky to still have a voice. I'm afraid to hear what today's Elphabas will sound like when they're 60.

[KylieS]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:54am

I was going to say Eliza Doolittle too. I know Julie Andrews was having other problems when she played it (uh, untreated tonsillitis anyone?) but the way she described the vocal demands of that role, particularly "Just You Wait", sounded brutal.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 7:53am

Like others I would have to disagree with the likes of Valjean in Les Miserables, Tony in West Side Story etc, because these roles are written properly, to be sung by proper singers - ergo, no problem. But there are others (mostly modern):

Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar,
Enjolras in Les Misérables,
Miss Hannigan (to a certain extent - doing the whole pretending to be bad thing that so many people who have played that role have done - in that same breath, i'd have to say Thenardier in Les Miserables)
Mrs. Lovett in Sweeney Todd
Norma Desmond in Sundet Boulevard
Joe Gillis in Sunset Boulevard
Sally Bowles in Cabaret
Franki Valli in Jersey Boys
(Obviously) Elphaba and Glinda in Wicked
The Phantom in The Phantom of the Opera and Love Never Dies
Jamie and Cathy in The Last Five Years

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:11pm

"I agree - that precedence was obviously set for Brightman who wasn't a heavily trained singer and who had a rather delicate voice. I'm not sure why the production has continued that practice of double casting the part."

That goes back to Equity, at least for the US productions. There are rules set forth in the contract making it very difficult, next to impossible, to reduce the number of principles in the cast after opening (for chorus it's after the first day of rehearsal).

[Brick]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 12:42pm

Interestingly, Patti LuPone said it was easier for her to sing GYPSY than Mrs Lovett, which she considered a very difficult sing.

[ThankstoPhantom]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 2:20pm

The only Christine vocals that are prerecorded are in the title song. Some dialogue is prerecorded because it is to cover a scene transition (although I wish that wasn't the case).

Updated On: 8/15/10 at 02:20 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 2:23pm

Previous similar thread: https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?boardid=1&boardname=bway&thread=1019984

[theaterkid1015]

Posted: 8/15/10 at 2:52pm

Brick, I think Angela Lansbury said the same thing, re Rose and Mrs. Lovett. I mean, "Worst Pies in London" on its own is sort of insane. That fast patter right into a legato section that's pretty high for an alto. (And, if you look at the original staging, fast patter with flour flying in your mouth) "Wait" has the random E thrown in there.

Considering the acting demands placed on both, I'd say Sweeney and Lovett definitely have to be counted in there.

[GreeceMusicalPerform]

Posted: 10/31/10 at 12:33pm

To sing...
Christine and Carlotta and The Phantom from Phantom of the Opera. Someone else might suggest Piangi, as well, but his part is not very demanding for someone who has been trained as an Opera singer... Carlotta is more demanding, though.
Judas and Jesus from JCS are definitely among the most demanding ones.
Jean Valjean is a little demanding, too- maybe that's why in some productions, there's an alternate.

[wonkit]

Posted: 10/31/10 at 12:58pm

Jonas Nightingale in LEAP OF FAITH.