Is it possible to like Hamilton if you hate rap?- Page 3

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 9:16am

"Far be it for me to judge another's taste in music but if this is you view on all rap music, you unfortunately have a very narrow view"

You just judged another's taste in music.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 9:34am

[jnb9872]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 11:02am

Please post examples of the other genres which FOCUS on partying and objectifying women. 

Sure, if you'll post examples of other genres of music that you define primarily by subject matter rather than form and composition. 

I have just as little interest in misogynistic songs or artists, but it doesn't mean I write rap off as a genre. Just misogynistic rap. 

My only qualm is not judging others' tastes here, but rather judging entire forms of art without independent exploration. Especially when it would hinder anyone from checking out a Broadway musical for fear of this misunderstood word "rap" as opposed to, you know, the subject matter or artistic merit of the show in question. It's not like the rap songs in HAMILTON are FOCUSED on partying and objectifying women and the story somehow is conveyed despite all the misogyny inbred in rap as a genre. 

[Kad]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 11:16am

"P.S.  From the clips I have seen, do we really think this is a show that is going to age well, as innovative as it seems to many right now?  Will Angelica and the ladies all going "Werk!" really not seem embarrassing in 30 years time, the way the "groovy" language in 60s shows like "Applause" or "Your Own Thing" do today?  Every era, sadly and mistakenly, thinks it is the ultimate in cool."

Songs like "You're the Top" still are sung despite being packed with references that stopped being topical a few years they were written. Hair is still popular and produced despite being a time capsule from the 60s

If people connect to the material, the material will be ageless.

 

[brdway411]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 11:21am

I loved In the Heights. Saw it many times. Hamilton got old for me after the first 20 or 30 minutes. I found it exhausting to listen to. 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 12:12pm

If you look hard enough, you'll see all popular genres of music have songs that objectify women and celebrate materialism. Rock is certainly guilty of this (most sub genres of rock have songs that are not much different in content to some of the less serious rap songs) and even some show tunes have lyrics that are pretty misogynistic or just fluffy songs about going to a party and showing off what they received/achieved. I think the more in-tuned music is to youth and pop culture, the more likely you'll find such things because this country measures success by the accumulation of wealth, material goods, and power (in a patriarchal society many still see the ability to gather hot women as a sign of power and success). Anyway, it's not surprising that a genre that was been the art for those from real poverty, they'd rap about materialistic things because people fantasize about things they don't have and think that's the image of success. 

Rap and hip hop have been around for more than 30 years and it has very real diversity and levels of sophistication. It's not fair to judge a whole genre by the worst songs (to you) if you don't do the same for every other genre of music. I mean some of the most successful Broadway musicals have some of the most lazy rhymes and content I've heard, but I get just as angry when someone dismisses the whole musical theatre genre (whatever that means since I find it dependent on the composer and the story and setting of the show) because of a few examples that they didn't like.

Updated On: 8/8/15 at 12:12 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 1:06pm

Jane, I don't see anyone judging anyone else's taste. What I see is someone questioning the stated basis of that taste. 

Let me give you an analogy that should be less loaded than discussing the relative merits of rap and hip hop. 

A person from another continent comes to the New York but never leaves Newark. They go home and describe New York to the family and friends. 

Would you agree their opinion deserves to to questioned?

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 1:13pm

Um, jnb, where did I ever say that subject matter is primarily the way I judge music? I love how people put words in others' mouths.

for your information, I PRIMARILY judge music based on 1. Rhythm  2. Melody and almost not at all on subject matter. Except when the subject matter is so objectionable and when there is no melody and when I don't like the rhythm.

Now I'm through arguing over taste and opinion. I have mine, you have yours.

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 1:20pm

Hogan, that person used the word narrow view to judge others opinions on rap. Please stop being so judgmental because I and others do not like rap and you do. It's not personal. you're still pretty.

i am allowed to not like rap, even hate it without having to go through all of this. Why don't you just respect others opinions.

 

Nice day outside!??

Updated On: 8/8/15 at 01:20 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 2:14pm

Jane,

I read "narrow" to mean based on a myopic view of the subject (which is fair comment) rather than anything related to your tastes. By the way, I do not generally like rap/hip hop, although I do not have a kneejerk aversion. And more to the point, you are equating the music in Hamilton with what you don't like about hip hop, and except for maybe 20 seconds of Hercules Mulligan, which serves a very trenchant purpose, there is very little of the subset of hip hop you are zeroing in on. That absolutely doesn't mean you have to like one note of the music in Hamilton, but it behooves you to at least know what you are talking about.

And yes it is quite lovely out here. Come gets some fresh air!

[jnb9872]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 4:28pm

Um, jnb, where did I ever say that subject matter is primarily the way I judge music? I love how people put words in others' mouths.

The point of my question there was to illustrate how your request was based on a faulty premise: it's similar to the old, "when did you stop beating your wife?" example. I would not suggest that you primarily judge music that way, but your question presupposed a definition of the genre that I would encourage you to expand beyond. So I simply attempted to mirror the faulty logic to expose it. Apologies for allowing you to feel slighted; Hogan did a better job summarizing the logic in his analogy there.

As it happens, ironically, "putting words into others' mouths" is precisely what you do to the entire field of rappers when you characterize the FOCUS of their work with such an unvarying assessment.

Furthermore, I don't believe (as Hogan also rightly pointed out) in judging others' tastes or opinions. Dramamama and you are both correct that everyone is entitled to their own. However, what I've strived to do here is appeal to a sense of fairness in judgment and suggest that, perhaps what you've heard is a limited sample of the field. Perhaps it's always worth considering that form isn't indicative of worth: it's what an artist does with a form that's worth judgment. A person very well may hate ballet their whole lives, or at least until they see one that suddenly clicks for them. Likewise, abstract art or fine dining or slam poetry or interpretive dance or Greek tragedy... 

And to the OP and the point of this thread: form should not scare anyone away from content. A person who hates rap should not be afraid of any musical they otherwise might be interested in. Nor should content scare anyone away from form. A person who hates what rap songs they've heard should not be afraid of the rest of the genre, since they may write off an artist who's material may inspire if only they'd thought to be open to it.

Updated On: 8/8/15 at 04:28 PM

[Lilly7]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 6:06pm

You just judged another's taste in music.

There’s a difference between judging people’s tastes in music and saying they don’t have the full picture of a genre. If the poster decided to listen to all types of rap songs and still came to the conclusion that they didn’t like the genre, that’s fine, not everyone is going to like the same thing. But it’s a shame when someone says they don’t like a type of music based on a couple songs they've heard, just like it would be a shame if someone said they dislike all musical theater based off of one show.

Also just wanted to point out that Rock and Country music are probably the worst offenders of having misogynist and sexist lyrics by far. Even the Beatles, probably one of the most revered musical groups in history, had misogynist lyrics. Run for Your Life, anyone? In no way am I condoning songs that have sexist lyrics in them just pointing out a double standard that often occurs.

 

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 6:48pm

" You can't tell me that lines like

"Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge, I'm trying not to lose my head. It's like a jungle. Sometimes it makes me wonder, how I keep from going under." or

"I never sleep 'cause sleep is the cousin of death"

are not clever or art. "

 

Yes, I can.

[Comden Green]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 8:09pm

"I loved In the Heights. Saw it many times. Hamilton got old for me after the first 20 or 30 minutes. I found it exhausting to listen to. "

 

^^^this is my fear. I think my best strategy is to wait for the cd and learn the lyrics.   that way my poor brain won't have to work so hard when I see the show.   

[Comden Green]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 8:59pm

Oh, and I am reading the source material.

(Yeah, it's a fancy way of saying that I am reading the book but I just like saying "source material")

[uncageg]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 9:03pm

I don't hate rap but I don't listen to it much. I own a few cd's that have popular rap songs on them. 

I will probably see HAMILTON but with Lin's understudy. His rapping kind of gets on my nerves after a while and I think it is mostly  his voice. Also not a fan of his acting.  JMO