Casting without ethnic profiling- Page 2

[hork]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 12:07am

gypsy101 said: (I recently watched The Seven Year Itch and thought that modern editors should cut the opening scene where many white men are dressed and made up to look Native).


Are you really advocating censorship? We'd have to edit a lot of old movies. That's not the answer.

[BeadleDeedle]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 12:30am

Oh boy. Dave19 the self proclaimed "casting director" who only discusses race, Les Mis, and race is working on a production of The Lion King where he's having issues finding black performers to play both the younger and older versions of the leads. What a joke. You're a liar, and even if this somehow were true you'd be in such deep s*** with Disney for posting this that your career as a "casting director" (hahahaaa) would be over. What a JOKE. 

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 1:11am

recent quote from OP: "Unfortunately some people do not have the character to admit it, but yes, there are many roles that can not be played by a black or white actor. It works both ways.

We should celebrate and accept the difference between black and white. Because it is not the same. Just like old and young and tall and short are not the same."

So what changed his mind? why can now any race play any role?

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 3:45am

"If not, we don't have enough kids so we would have to cancel the show."

And... done.

[sparepart973]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 5:41am

theatreguy12 said: "Yet another bubble burst, I fear.  

My former violin teacher is from Poland, and according to her there is a huge amount of intolerance in Europe.  Something she noted firsthand in her travels around Europe as a performer.  

In addition, a black friend of mine has been to soccer games in Europe and has noted certain types of treatment of black players when they enter the field.

I know Americans from the USA love to go on apology tours for our history, and for the racism that, yes, still does exist here even today. No one denies that.

But to think that Europeans are somehow so much further evolved and enlightened in this particular area of discussion is not valid, nor is it true.  So apologizing to them for our sins, while not understanding they have their own similar sins in that same area seems a little out of touch.

Unfortunately we're all human beings. And that's why we are the way we are.  We all carry sin within us. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where we're from.

There are indeed many enlightened Europeans. And yes, enlightened Americans here in the USA,  There are intolerant Europeans.  And there are intolerant Americans here in the USA. There are compassionate Europeans. And there are compassionate Americans here in the USA. There are racist Europeans.  And there are racist residents of the USA.

Why? Because we're human beings.

One thing my teacher also noted was how amazed she was that in her ten years of being here that people get along as well as they do considering the diversity.  And as she notes the diversity is much more varied here than it is in a lot of European countries.

I understand that a lot of people have "heard" how enlightened Europe is, but when you go there you see they are no different than we are.  I've been to Europe myself multiple times, and have visited almost every country.  And yes, there are some very nice people.  And there are also those who are not tolerant or respectful as well.   While the term "ugly American" floats around quite a bit, you sure see how much that rings true for other as well.  You could almost plug in any nationality to that unfortunately.

Because we're human beings.

gypsy101 said: "Dave19 said: "Now, we live by the idea that any race can play any role, so we have thought about casting a lighter Simba, but then we thought, why would we? Especially because they play animals, so race does not matter at all in the first place, and why should we cast on race at all...Now, we live in a country where we believe that letting go of the differences and not focusing on them constantly actually creates unity...Of course we live in a country that focuses much less on racial differences, but I was wondering what Americans on this board think of this situation."

in all the time I've spent on this board, each time you post I have always wondered why your views on race seem so completely tasteless, vulgar and inappropriate. I now see that you are living in some kind of fantasy world where you believe any race can play any race. Having white-skinned children wear makeup that allows them to appear darker is so vile and upsetting that I can't even believe you'd think it to be a viable artistic option. I didn't know before now you're from Europe, exactly what European nation are you from? I've always heard they're supposed to be enlightened over there but you are an example of the complete opposite.

did you ever see movies from the 40's and 50's where white peoples are made up to look like native Americans and Asian? people might not have found it offensive then but it definitely is offensive now (I recently watched The Seven Year Itch and thought that modern editors should cut the opening scene where many white men are dressed and made up to look Native). the fact that they play animals in The Lion King is immaterial to the fact that the show takes place in Africa (I have issue with the actors playing Timon and Pumba being white, but maybe they're supposed to be like outsiders?) Do not paint a white child and make them look black. that is terrible. 

 

"
Europe is not one country, and the attitudes in these societies and countries towards race vary greatly from one part of Europe to another. You certainly cannot compare attitudes in London, who just voted for a Muslim man of Pakistani heritage as its mayor, to attitudes in say, Poland or Germany's or Holland's race and culture politics (and demographic, especially in the latter's) to Romania's. 


 

 

"

 

[Funhouse2]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 7:14am

I'm pretty sure this is about the upcoming Dutch revival which is currently being cast and I honestly find this very hard to believe. I know the child labour laws in The Netherlands are pretty strict but the first Dutch production successfully ran for 2 and a half years back in 2004 and I don't see why casting people of colour should be a problem now when it wasn't back then. The current production of The Bodyguard in Utrecht has also managed to get by without casting white kids to play Fletcher so yeah, there should be plenty of talented black kids who can play young Simba.

Also, let's not pretend there is no racism here in The Netherlands or that people are more enlightened or accepting here than in the US because that's simply not the case. You say there is less focus on racial issues but that doesn't mean those issues don't exist. Suggesting blackface as an option for The Lion King with all the Zwarte Piet/Black Pete controversy going on right now? I don't think Disney would want open that can of worms.

Updated On: 6/11/16 at 07:14 AM

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:05am

SNAFU said: "Simba's make up is a red neck and shoulder yoke creating a mask like shape on the child's face. The face has a few yellow stripes. Perhaps you can even add some contouring of the child's face with the colors off the adult Simba's mask / headpiece. No brown or black face needed, any kid can play the lion cub"

 

Thanks, this is the first helpful comment. 

Yes we will use the same make-up for both young and adult Simba and yes, it includes yellow because they are lions. It is important that young and adult Simba look a bit alike. More yellow make-up and contouring is the solution I think.

 

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:09am

ChiTheaterFan said: "And I find the word "ethnic" to refer to non-whites offensive in and of itself. "

 

I find the word "non-white" offensive. As if white is the standard and a person is just not it.

As if gay people are nothing more than "non-straight".

Stop your ethnic profiling and think in humans.

 

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:15am

gypsy101 said: "

So what changed his mind? why can now any race play any role?

 

"

I am talking about roles here. Nothing changed my mind. I said that there are many roles that can not be played by a white or a black actor. Such as Effie in Dreamgirls because it matters to the story. If the story is not about race, but for example about a green witch or about cats or lions, then yes, any race can play any role. 

 

And people can scream greenface, yellowface for as long as they want but actually they are missing the point, as it has nothing to do with that. Artistry and craftmanship as an actor above ego is what it is about. Especially in this case. Where the race of the actor that plays a young lion does not matter for the story at all. So the only thing that matters to those people is that they would like to see more black actors working. But that is ethnic profiling. Deliberately casting on race, even if it does not matter. Now, we are even following that behaviour, because we are looking for ethnic kids, but please stop hyperventilating when we don't have enough kids and find a white one and use yellow make up too.

Updated On: 6/11/16 at 09:15 AM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:20am

please go away. we don't like you.

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:29am

gypsy101 said: "please go away. we don't like you."



I am not going anywhere.

Have fun with your ethnic profiling and keeping the gap as big as possible. I hope it works out for you.

Updated On: 6/11/16 at 09:29 AM

[Dave13]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:40am

I just want to say please don't confuse me with this POS. 

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:45am

Dave, are you working on a professional production for Disney? If so, consider yourself unemployed in the coming hours, if not days. What a mistake to post this on a public message board!

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 9:49am

how the hell is he allowed to spew whatever racist vitriol he wants but if someone badmouths Patti whatsername they get suspended 

Updated On: 6/11/16 at 09:49 AM

[lambchop2]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 10:20am

In the case that he's not trolling:

People can contact Disney Theatrical here: [e-mail] with screenshots of the messages with their concerns.

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 11:01am

Liza's Headband said: "Dave, are you working on a professional production for Disney? If so, consider yourself unemployed in the coming hours, if not days. What a mistake to post this on a public message board!

 

"

I have news for you: The people at Disney like to treat everyone equally, so they do not think in race or ethnic profiling. They want equality and quality, and that means different ways in different countries. Pulling from different sources. Disney would not like to hire anyone who is as focused on race as you are. Disney is very open about their standards.

 

With that said, I never even mentioned a country, place, or type of production. I didn't even mention Disney. So good luck with your assumptions.

Updated On: 6/11/16 at 11:01 AM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 11:31am

It's not an assumption; it's a fact. THE LION KING is owned by Disney. Unless you're partaking in an illegal, unauthorized production....

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 11:33am

a) you mentioned Disney's standards just now in the first paragraph b) in your original post you referred to the character Simba by name, he is the lead character in Disney's The Lion King. so if it's not Disney then you are dealing with criminals.

[lambchop2]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 11:37am

"I didn't even mention Disney."

The Lion King and Simba are Disney owned properties. So if you're not officially working for Disney, you are working for a bootleg production, which Disney would also like to be made aware of so they can shut it down.

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 11:48am

Still assumptions.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 12:51pm

Time to resurrect this Public Service Announcement , I feel.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 12:54pm

ah yes I forgot about that one!

[Ranger Tom]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 1:23pm

sparepart973 said: "Europe is not one country, and the attitudes in these societies and countries towards race vary greatly from one part of Europe to another. You certainly cannot compare attitudes in London, who just voted for a Muslim man of Pakistani heritage as its mayor, to attitudes in say, Poland or Germany's or Holland's race and culture politics (and demographic, especially in the latter's) to Romania's. "

Simply because a large city votes in a person of color as mayor (or a nation, for that matter), doesn't mean they get special points in the who's-most-racist game.  You also can't compare a city with the country it is in - the demographics of London are very different than the demographics of Cambridge, Ipswich, Manchester, etc.  Just like the demographics in rural Maryland are different than in Baltimore.  And PLEASE, don't us make-up to imply ethnicity - those days are gone and good riddance.  I'm sorry, IMHO there is no issue with white children playing the animals in a Lion King jr.  If Leslie Uggams can play Mama Rose, white kids can play animals in Africa.  

 

"

 

Updated On: 6/11/16 at 01:23 PM

[astromiami]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 1:25pm

Dave19, you really ought to be better at this by now.

 

If you are going to construct elaborate scenarios they need to make sense in order for you to get the response you want.

 

That said, I think this board is slacking if it took so long to spot the impossibility of Dave's story.

[Dave19]

Posted: 6/11/16 at 1:48pm

Ranger Tom said: " I'm sorry, IMHO there is no issue with white children playing the animals in a Lion King jr.  If Leslie Uggams can play Mama Rose, white kids can play animals in Africa. "

 

This.

Anyone who disagrees with this is a pure racist. Even though they don't realize it. That is the sad part.

 

Updated On: 6/11/16 at 01:48 PM