Steven Spielberg, keep ben Platt away from the west side story remake- Page 4

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 1:18pm

haterobics said: "This thread is becoming quite a lot for Spielberg to parse. Can someone sum it up in a nice bulleted list for him? There is no use having this power in casting if we're not going to take it seriously."

Don't worry, I've been texting Steve the highlights.

[greenifyme2]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 1:31pm

The title of this thread makes me laugh every time I scroll by it.
And I love Ben but this video was bad. Just, no.

[Elegance101]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 1:34pm

This movie was announced with an open casting call for Tony, Maria, Anita, and Bernardo. Anyone could email their info to submit. So while that was probably a gimmick (though I could see them finding Maria that way), there is at least a slight interest in newcomers. However, I would also be shocked if it’s not Ansel Elgort and I wouldn’t be mad. Baby Driver did pretty well and it’s no secret that many girls are in love with him.

[darquegk]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 1:40pm

I have heard that Beymer asked Mark Frost and David Lynch to write him as a promiscuous Lothario in "Twin Peaks," specifically to get rid of what he perceived as a stink of effeminacy on his career post-"West Side Story." I don't know if Beymer or Lynch ever confirmed that, but I've heard it discussed online.

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 2:08pm

lovebwy said: "MCfan2 said: "Aw, poor Beymer! I think he's rather charming in the film. It's not the greatest performance ever, but it's not THAT bad."

Go watch it. He's completely out of his element. He's just not Tony at all. Watch his walk during the Maria scene. Sorry, but I see what he means with the "fruit" comment.

Frankly, I don't think Wood was that great either. It shows you how great the movie is that it overcame two weak leads. What makes it great are Rita Moreno, Russ Tamblyn, and George Chakaris. And the Robbins dancing scenes, and of course, the music.





"

 Funny you say that, I actually just rewatched this yesterday because it happened to be on TV. And I agree with you 100%. 

[haterobics]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 2:22pm

darquegk said: "I've heard it discussed online."

Then it's true.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 7:17pm

BroadwayConcierge said: "Also, if they want to go for an experienced unknown, they should cast Austin Colby, who was an earth-shattering Tony at Signature Theatre in D.C. two years ago.

 

"

I NEED to see this kind of casting in a musical movie. It's time for quality, respect to the artform and real acting through real singing. On screen.

 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 7:23pm

VintageSnarker said: "I should clarify that I mean lipsynching to someone else's voice. I do think Deborah Kerr pulls it off in The King and I for whatever reason."

Ah thanks. I think it is a great solution in many cases. But of course better to take real singers for the roles.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 7:36pm

Peter2 said: "But his habit of turning everything he sings into a kind of speech-song to me seems fundamentally misguided (something to grow out of, maybe) and ultimately a distracting mannerism.

In a song like "Maria," Tony can basically just stand there, throw his full voice into the melody, and let the music do the acting for him."

I think you hit the nail on its head here.

Many people nowadays completely fail to understand this. They do not realize what makes acting through song truthful. It's not speech-song and toning it down. It's the opposite. The notes and music do the acting too. No need for distraction.

Especially in movies they fail to get it right. The 10th and 25th anniversary concerts of les Mis are more filmic and realistically acted than the actual film. Isn't that weird?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4NNlEPraKo

 

 

Updated On: 3/20/18 at 07:36 PM

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 8:09pm

I'll never understand the "wE nEeD REAAAALLL tAlEnT tHaT cAn SiNg In MoViE mUsIcAlSsdnajfhaewruj" people.  Because that's never been the case.  First, it was dubbing.  Now it's meh singing.  

I don't think some of you understand that film is a different artform.  And movie musicals have ALWAYS been done with actors and the singing has been compensated because theatre actors are rarely brilliant film actors.  It's a different genre AND A DIFFERENT MARKET.

Please be aware that most people don't like musicals.  To make them go to a musical film, they have to have a "reason" and that reason is often the casting.

You can rail against the way it's done (and has always been done) but you're beating your fist into steel:  you'll never beat it and you'll just bloody up your fist uselessly.

And you can tell me I'm wrong but I'm factually not and history will continue to show that.  

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 8:15pm

I don't know how many times I've spoken to non-musical fans who actually prefer the non-trained singer version of songs over legit voices. I think it's because they, and many of the general audiences, aren't used to hearing legit sopranos, tenors, baritones, and have a hard time understanding the lyrics. Also, some times people think legit sounding voices takes them out of the story because the actors' voices become singing voices as opposed to that of the "character" and prefer a movie actor renditions because they felt it was more in-character. Plus on film, it's actually probably better to lower the keys a bit because we require more realism in film, even in some of more fantastical stories, than we do in theatre where audiences are able to suspend disbelief a lot more. And it's a much more intimate medium and that doesn't require so much singing out to convey the same emotion that a look or a close-up can do.  Of course, there are always exceptions and sometimes those who sing full-out and the way the score was written can work on film and some times dumbed-down versions of songs don't work anyway.

Updated On: 3/16/18 at 08:15 PM

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 3/16/18 at 8:25pm

And that "acting through a song" clip is insulting opinion presented as a fact.

 

[lovebwy]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 1:50am

I think what's amazing about Ben's performance here is that he's acting it beautifuly and singing it beautifuly. To me, his voice is angelic, and his version of Maria is the best I ever heard. Maybe o e or two small pitchy moments, but other than that, amazing.

People are ignoring my posts on this for some reason. Help me out here!

Could it be that not ever having seen him perform before, I'm reading acting the part, where others are seeing his typical annoying mannerisms? Or is there just a general backlash (which I've seen at times with Patti) that I'm unaware Of?

All I can tell you guys is going in cold not knowing the first thing about him I was blown the eff away.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 2:10am

I'm happy that you're happy. I have nothing else constructive to say.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 2:47am

lovebwy said: "I think what's amazing about Ben's performance here is that he's acting it beautifuly and singing it beautifuly. To me, his voice is angelic, and his version of Maria is the best I ever heard. Maybe o e or two small pitchy moments, but other than that, amazing.

People are ignoring my posts on this for some reason. Help me out here!

Could it be that not ever having seen him perform before, I'm reading acting the part, where others are seeing his typical annoying mannerisms? Or is there just a general backlash (which I've seen at times with Patti) that I'm unaware Of?

All I can tell you guys is going in cold not knowing the first thing about him I was blown the eff away."

i agree with you, i think he’s very talented and has a terrific voice.

 

also, someone mentioned the masses not liking movie musicals... i’ve always assumed this had to do with deeply instilled homophobia and sexism, and viewing musicals as unmanly.

[bk]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 3:57am

lovebwy said: "I think what's amazing about Ben's performance here is that he's acting it beautifuly and singing it beautifuly. To me, his voice is angelic, and his version of Maria is the best I ever heard. Maybe o e or two small pitchy moments, but other than that, amazing.

People are ignoring my posts on this for some reason. Help me out here!

Could it be that not ever having seen him perform before, I'm reading acting the part, where others are seeing his typical annoying mannerisms? Or is there just a general backlash (which I've seen at times with Patti) that I'm unaware Of?

All I can tell you guys is going in cold not knowing the first thing about him I was blown the eff away."

I'll help you out: I have no idea what in his version of this song gets to you - what is moving you to tears for God's sake.  I and a few others just don't see it - doesn't matter if you know him or not, it's a kind of stinky rendition of the song with schmacting and too much vibrato (WAY too much vibrato).  But your tastes are your own and if this is the kind of thing that moves you then that's fine.  

But you're continual dissing of Mr. Beymer and Ms. Wood is kind of nauseating.  Once was enough.  I happen to like Beymer in the film, but I'd been a fan of his since he was a child actor - and then in Diary of Anne Frank and Blake Edwards' High Time.  He knew film and he knew that technique and sorry I've never had a problem with his performance.  The dubber matched him perfectly.  He can say whatever he said years later - everyone does that to one extent or another.  But to diss Wood's performance is fascinating - I think she's terrific and is one of the reason the film works so brilliantly - you care about her and her acting is heartfelt, endearing, and natural.  I cannot see any other young actress of that era doing what she does in the final scenes of the film.  But that's what makes horse racing, I suppose.

 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 4:19am

lovebwy,

People aren't really responding to your posts because there's not really much to say. You really enjoyed that performance and it moved you to tears. Anybody who disliked the performance or disagrees with you are being nice by respecting your opinion and does not want ruin the experience that seems really important to you. We all have things that move us. For example, I think Beymer works for how the movie wanted to portray Tony by playing up the romanticism of his character rather than the former gang leader part. Your dislike of it is valid as is me watching his walk that you criticized so deeply about 10 times since you mentioned it here because I seriously enjoyed it that much among other WSS clips on YouTube...including the beautiful book scene during "One Hand, One Heart" which I felt was Beymer and Wood's best scene and the film's most heartfelt and most tragic scene in hindsight.

[John Adams]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 4:29am

Is this the video of Ben Platt that everyone is referring to, or is there a different vid? (EDIT - I see from the story on BWW that it is)

 

 

 

 

If this is the one, I LOVE his interpretation of the song! I particularly like how he whispers, and plays with the name, "Maria" like he's testing it, exploring it and trying the name from different angles. Although a previous poster chided him for closing his eyes, I thought it was a very natural and uninfluenced reaction that "just happened" because he was trying to focus so hard on the sound of the name, his eyes just instinctively closed so that his sense of hearing could better dominate.

He shows reason for Tony to repeat the name over and over again. He brings that "single word" and Sondheim's lyric to the fore rather than Bernstein's music.

One thing I didn't like was how he clipped the end of the phrase, "say it soft and it's almost like praying". That was so very, very Evan and NOT Tony. ...and then he did it again, exactly the same way. That tells me it was not organic, or 'in the moment' but planned. Why plan for Tony to sound neurotic?

I agree about Platt's vibrato in this song. Normally, I love his vibrato. I think it's too much (overpowering) in this song, though. I think he could compensate for that by exploring where to effectively use straight tones in his musical phrasing. Just a thought, Ben!

Few elements aside, I love his interpretation of "Maria" -- but I don't think he's right to play Tony. If he could tone down the 'neuroses' and amp up the 'confident' and 'charismatic' leader qualities, I could see it.

Still... with a few exceptions, I applaud his choice to glorify Sondheim's lyrics over Bernstein's melody. Most singers try to make Bernstein's melody sound like its never been heard before (and there's nothing wrong about that). Platt however, seems to really get the gist of the lyrics and make that one name - "Maria" - the object to be savored.

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 04:29 AM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 6:19am

Sondheimite said: "I'll never understand the "wE nEeD REAAAALLL tAlEnT tHaT cAn SiNg In MoViE mUsIcAlSsdnajfhaewruj" people. Because that's never been the case. First, it was dubbing. Now it'smeh singing.

I don't think some of you understand that film is a different artform. And movie musicals have ALWAYS been done with actors and the singing has been compensated because theatre actors are rarely brilliant film actors. It's a different genre AND A DIFFERENT MARKET.

Please be aware that most people don't like musicals. To make them go to a musical film, they have to have a "reason" and that reason is often the casting.

You can rail against the way it's done (and has always been done) but you're beating your fist into steel: you'll never beat it and you'll just bloody up your fist uselessly.

And you can tell me I'm wrong but I'm factually not and history will continue to show that."

I think your post is disconnected from reality.

First, it definitely has not always been done like you describe. Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music for example. Olivia Newton John in Grease for example. Barbra Streisand in Funny Girl for example. Also in animated films, Lea Salonga in Aladdin for example. All this natural, real singing has always worked extremely well, in fact, it's the only musicalfilms that stand the test of time.

I also think you have a lack of understanding how people watch singing and music. Nobody ever complained about Olivia Newton John's natural singing and acting. On screen. People listen to music all day. The can handle it and they want it. This clip is the perfect example, and the Les Miserable clips in particular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4NNlEPraKo

What music on film does not need is a disconnect and forcing audiences to switch between 2 languages (speech and song), sometimes multiple times in 1 line, especially in dialogue. As you can see in the Les Mis clips above. THAT is what makes people hate musicals, because it does not feel natural. Natural singing feels natural. Constant switching makes it feel theatrical and like posing.

The Les Mis film clips are sung in a way too theatrical way. Forced, posed, and unnatural switches. The concert clips are more filmic and feel natural. In this clip. On screen. It does not need the extra sauce and distraction.

If people like you, and general audiences would understand this a bit more, they would learn that they actually do not dislike movie musicals, if it would have been sung naturally.

It is a cause and result situation.

We need to educate audiences about what is quality and what works, and not bow for insecurity and cast people who make sure everybody will never want to see another musical film after that. Which is a shame because they are misled.

What you really don't understand is something else than what you think you don't understand.

 

 

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 06:19 AM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 6:26am

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2 said: "I don't know how many times I've spoken to non-musical fans who actually prefer the non-trained singer version of songs over legit voices.

Also, some times people think legit sounding voices takes them out of the story

And it's a much more intimate medium and that doesn't require so much singing out to convey the same emotion that a look or a close-up can do.Of course, there are always exceptions and sometimes those who sing full-out and the way the score was written can work on film and some times dumbed-down versions of songs don't work anyway."

I think they don't know any better. It is the distraction from natural singing that takes them out of the story.

Hugh Jackman sings 10 times louder, theatrical, unnatural and forced than any Valjean I have seen. Watch the clip. You really think moviegoers appreciate that more because he bleats one word and sings theatrically in the next? That is not the solution to a natural performance. The solution lies in natural singing. And therefore acting. The music does a lot of the acting. That is the essence of this artform.

Film is a different medium than stage indeed. It's even more nuanced, so it's extra important that every little singing detail feels naturally sung. Acting in spite of song is extra painful on film.

 

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 06:26 AM

[Dave28282]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 6:29am

bk said: "I'll help you out: I have no idea what in his version of this song gets to you - what is moving you 
"

It must be the fact that he looks so uncomfortable that he is breaking down in tears at any moment. They did this trick in the Les Mis film too and it seems to work with some people.

[Peter2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 11:48am

I think the Kerr/Nixon collaborations are great role models for lip-syncing on film. Kerr has that gorgeous dancer’s épaulement that exactly captures the raised expressivity of Nixon’s trained voice. The way she holds her head up and almost seems to rise up onto her toes in ‘Hello, Young Lovers” and the title song of “An Affair to Remember”—it gives me an exquisite thrill every time. What do you think are other great examples of the lip-singing art?

Updated On: 3/17/18 at 11:48 AM

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 11:55am

Dave28282 said: "
We need to educate audiences about what is quality and what works, and not bow for insecurity and cast people who make sure everybody will never want to see another musical film after that. Which is a shame because they are misled.

What you really don't understand is something else than what you think you don't understand.""

Who is this "we"?  Do you produce big budget musical films?  It is the job of those films, in the literal since, to entertain and make money.  Really just to make money.  That's the bottom line.  I'm also looking for some facts behind this statement:  Mamma Mia had horrible singing in it's film.  It made a boat load of money and is getting a second film.  Where are the audience members, in droves, who "never want to see another musical film"?  You are taking your opinion and spreading it as though it is universal fact.  Have your opinion, lord knows you've been b!tching about the Les Miserables film for so long that long time posters are numb to it and tune you out.  But your opinion does NOT reflect that of the general public.  It never has, it never will. 

[The Other One]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 11:57am

"What do you think are other great examples of the lip-singing art?"

Dorothy Dandridge in Carmen Jones.  Marilyn Horne did the singing, but it's all in synch to the character.

[Peter2]

Posted: 3/17/18 at 12:23pm

The Other One said: ""What do you think are other great examples of the lip-singing art?"

Dorothy Dandridge in Carmen Jones. Marilyn Horne did the singing, but it's all in synch to the character."

 

Oh, yes! And interestingly, I have seen Horne do master classes on multiple occasions, and she often criticizes young singers for “going out of your voice.” Performers do it to sound expressive, I think, but it usually comes off as amateurish. Lean INTO the music, not away from it, and give the notes full value!