First time for "Carousel"- Page 2

[Impossible2]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 1:27pm

Charley Kringas Inc said: "I agree on the weird cuts in the second act, particularly losing Geraniums in the Winder (put it back and cut the endless Blow High dance break, tia). As for what the show's "about", there are a lot of ways that it's purposefully conflicted and cloudy. Carrie and Julie are, in a sense, opposites, and their relationships are contrasted to illustrate two sides of love and how Carrie's "acceptable" marriage has just as many hurtful undertones as Julie's more conventionally abusive one. Carrie gets saddled with way more kids than she wants and has to put up with Enoch's self-absorption and hypocrisy.

Something I've heard people say regarding Carousel is that it was written when slapping a woman wasn't regarded as abusive, which is really dumb because the show itself regards it as a huge offense. When Louise says it "felt like a kiss", what does she mean? Carousel frames Billy's aggression as misguided passion - he's angry, panicked, and terrifiedbecausehe wants things to go well, but he doesn't have the ability to make it happen. Even with literal heavenly intervention he screws up, but the act that saves him is to convince his daughter that she's not "alone", which is something that would've saved him (consider what he says during the bench scene - "I don't need you or anyone to help me. I got it figgered out for myself. We ain't important.".

Billy's arc is all about attaining empathy, and his salvation is being able to pass it on, which is why Carousel is so interesting in terms of the current atmosphere of recognizing abuse from men, both personal and systemic. Carousel does not condone his actions, and part of its dark appeal is the way that it presents the situation without bald, friendly answers - you're supposed to go home and think aboutempathy, frustration, alienation, and so on. If it's unsettling that Louise says his slap felt like a kiss, that's good, because it is unsettling. She feels his intent, not his action, and that's an intense, ambiguous concept."

Well if that is what it's about this production completely fails on every level to get that across.

At a stretch I guess I can see the paralelles between Julie 'bad' relationship and Carrie's 'perfect but not so perfect' relationship, which I kind of thought was what they were trying to get across by failed miserably, but the rest of it was totally lost.

Or maybe I was just so bored by the endless dancing and ugly scenery my mind shut down completely and I just didn't care what was going on.

 

[FranklinDickson2018]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 2:45pm

"I'll watch Amar Ramasar dance all day long - he is captivating."

The above quote was fascinating and perhaps indicates what is so wrong headed about this production.  Granted Mr. Ramasar is a great and charismatic performer.   But the character of Jigger doesn't warrant this attention! This is not why the character was written. Not even close. 

This is not how he was created by R & H. Jigger is a "type" not a brilliant dancer.  He is a cynical criminal, a bad influence and his main reason he is in the musical play, is his part in the drama, getting Billy to participate in the robbery and then cheating him out of all his future winnings. A study in tragic irony.  (Oh I forgot this scene was cut!) 

I don't want to see a Carousel where the character emphasis is so shifted.  Should we give a brilliant ballet dancer a chance to dance!? Sure.  But in a show that realistically can allow for it, not shoe-horning it in to the story, at the expense of the real plot developments that are now excised.

Wonder what the Tonys will bring on all of this. Hope that Tony voters will see this.  Very interesting that they had to petition to allow for Ms. Fleming to be nominated (if she is) for best featured actress.  They put her, undeservedly, in  top "above the title" billing, which was really unfair to the Carrie. But then to get her to be nominated in the category that she is really in -- they had to petition.  Very interesting. 

 

[pacificnorthwest]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 8:58pm

So I saw it. Last night. And what a mess. Which isn't my normal reaction to big musicals. I usually find myself swept away, or at least enjoying a show overall, regardless of comments and reviews.

My thoughts can't compare to the educated dissection that many of you have offered. And I'm pretty tired at the moment (heading home via Amtrak). Certainly there were some exceptional moments, some beautiful dancing and innovative choreography and I thought Joshua Henry was superb. But the parts didn't make up for the whole. I couldn't fully appreciate the good because overall it felt so disjointed, even shallow. 

From the beginning, I didn't feel any connection between Julie and Billy. I know musicals are magic -- they're not about the details -- but going from a first kiss to being married for three months felt like it skipped too much. We didn't see him hit her, but we heard how he spoke to her from the start and it made me cringe. For me, there was no romance, no passion between them. It was just weird. I didn't see it as the fault of the actors. It was the bizarre storytelling. 

This post itself is fairly shallow, I know. I have many more thoughts, but I'm beat. Just wanted to briefly share that I think these boards were pretty spot-on in their overriding assessment.

 

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 9:52pm

FranklinDickson2018 said: ""I'll watch Amar Ramasar dance all day long - he is captivating."

The above quote was fascinating and perhaps indicates what is so wrong headed about this production. Granted Mr. Ramasar is a great and charismatic performer. But the character of Jigger doesn't warrant this attention! This is not why the character was written. Not even close."

So interesting! Thanks for your analysis. To be fair, I go to NYC Ballet fairly regularly, so I was already a fan of Ramasar coming in and was looking forward to this departure of a performance for him. He was going to stand out to me no matter what.

But now I feel like I want to see what Carousel fans consider a great production of the show. Does the 1956 movie do it justice? Is there a better way to see it? (To be blunt I’m fine with seeking out a bootleg for this - if a show’s already closed I’m not taking any money from them...)

@pacificnorthwest, sounds like we had a similar experience! What you said is exactly what I felt - usually this kind of show sweeps me away and I find myself with a tear in my eye. But this time it was just WTF WTF WTF. Some phenomenal parts, and I’m still glad I saw it, but the parts didn’t make up for the whole.

 

[laurabenantilover]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 10:11pm

Okay so I went into Carousel completely blind, knowing absolutely nothing about it (I purely came because of a friend recommendation and because Lindsay Mendez). Keep in mind I saw it in previews.

What I loved: JOSHUA HENRY. YES YES YES YES YES. I really do think that (after seeing all of the musicals this year) he deserves the Tony. He delivered an incredible performance. I also think that Lindsay Mendez was fantastic, and is very deserving of at least a featured actress nom. All of her jokes landed, and her take on the character was flawless. I also thought that the choreography was fantastic, and that the most of the technical elements were very well done. The ensemble was flawless.

 

What I didn't love: JESSIE MUELLER. What happened? She just seemed so... disconnected. Her performance was incredibly eclectic, and didn't seem to fit with the rest of the show. Also, her chemistry with Joshua Henry was basically nonexistant (though that's on both of them). I also thought overall that the production was hard to follow. It seemed like their were a lot of really amazing sections, but they were not pieced together well. I could take or leave Renee Fleming... and tbh in my opinion the casting of Renee Fleming was unnecessary. You already have a star-vehicle like Jessie Mueller, a fairly well-known show, and she just doesn't act the role. She has a beautiful voice, but that's it.

 

Also side note... is there a reprise of "June Is Bustin' Out All Over"? It said so in the playbill but at the performance I went to the curtain dropped after "Soliloquy". 

 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 4/28/18 at 11:58pm

Ramasar gave the worst acting performance that I have ever seen on the Broadway stage.

[BwayinVan]

Posted: 4/29/18 at 12:23am

I too went into this totally blind. Saw it tonight having bought tickets months ago because of Mueller (who I would see in anything), Henry and Mendez. Full disclosure, I’m not a big R&H fan or a fan of that genre in general but figured I’d give it a go. I really wanted to love it but in the end just liked it. Yes the dancing was amazing but I felt that the actual story was a secondary thought. I didn’t find myself getting invested in any of the characters or the plot and constantly wanted more of the scenes where characters actual connected with eachother. Now being a newbie I don’t know if that was a direction choice or just the text.

In terms of the performers I thought Josh Henry was great. He really is a man’s man and with that booming voice had a presence. As I said before I was see Jessie Mueller inanything and I found it a new experience to see her sing some traditional musical theatre after seeing her as Carole and Jenna. It had me thinking though...can’t the poor girl be in a happy marriage just once (this includes her episode of Blue Bloods). I do think in some ways her talent was wasted in this role but she is doing the best with what she has been given. Is it tony worthy? Not for the award but maybe a nomination.

This was my first time seeing Lindsay Mendez and I thought she was great. As was mentioned already her jokes landed with perfect timing and she stole the scene every time.

In terms of the actual play I’d be interested to see a version without parts being cut. To me it felt a bit disjointed and like the scene were filler between all the dance.

Would I see it again...probably not but I am glad I went.

[Browneyes142]

Posted: 4/29/18 at 2:55pm

I found Dolly's storyline to be just as weird.

Are we really supposed to cheer on a sociopathiccon artist who manipulates people's emotions for money and social status andthink it's'cute'? Funny we don't seem to be doing the same for Donald Trump!

Let's see how cute it is when you flash forward 6 months and go back and visit Horace after she'sspent all his money, he's lost his business andshe's moved onto the next sucker.

So cute..."

This was my view before I saw it .I knew the music and that was fun enough, I knew the basic plotline. It wasn't high on my list of shows to see . I couldn't pass up an opportunity to see Bernadette Peters in person. Watching changed my opinion completely. I got a much more tender view of Dolly, she also just seems like she's just world weary and ready to settle down again. With Horace, who also mellowed, she won't have to hustle anymore to make a living.

 

Now back to this show, I have always enjoyed the music and was excited about the revival until I read the full plot .It turned my stomach and I have no desire to see it now even though I would love to see it for the artistic value (dancing and singing).

 

[Impossible2]

Posted: 4/29/18 at 4:35pm

Browneyes142 said: "I found Dolly's storyline to be just as weird.

Are we really supposed to cheer on a sociopathiccon artist who manipulates people's emotions for money and social status andthink it's'cute'? Funny we don't seem to be doing the same for Donald Trump!

Let's see how cute it is when you flash forward 6 months and go back and visit Horace after she'sspent all his money, he's lost his business andshe's moved onto the next sucker.

So cute..."

This was my view before I saw it .I knew the music and that was fun enough, I knew the basic plotline. It wasn't high on my list of shows to see . I couldn't pass up an opportunity to see Bernadette Peters in person. Watching changed my opinion completely. I got a much more tender view of Dolly, she also just seems like she's just world weary and ready to settle down again. With Horace, who also mellowed, she won't have to hustle anymore to make a living.



Now back to this show, I have always enjoyed the music and was excited about the revival until I read the full plot .It turned my stomach and I have no desire to see it now even though I would love to see it for the artistic value (dancing and singing).

"

So you fell for her manipulations too?

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 4/29/18 at 5:39pm

Reading some of these most recent posts, I’m glad I was born a Baby Boomer.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 4/29/18 at 7:32pm

MichelleCraig said: "Reading some of these most recent posts, I’m glad I was born a Baby Boomer."

On behalf of those who followed, may I say thanks for the legacy you have left us x

[wish i were here2]

Posted: 4/29/18 at 9:23pm

Just came back from seeing it today. I've never seen the show live, but I knew the basic plot and some of the songs. But, during the ENTIRE show I kept thinking "I wonder what Bart Sher would've done..."

There were some directorial choices, which were CHOICES LOL:

1. The carousel, it was very meta. I looked past the fact that there were no horses and the ensemble was just dancing, but the entire time I kept thinking "Why are Julie and Billy on the side.....and....not....in....the.....carousel...." I went with my friends who didn't see the show and they were like "If they didn't say it was a carousel it looked like a people were just dancing under like a covered patio."

2. Julie's reaction to Billy's death. It was very apathetic till the very end. I was like "Okay......." 

3. Not really directorial, but the costumes and sets. A lot of the costumes seemed too colorful and ill fitting. The sets, what there were at least, were interesting. 

There's probably more things that confused me, but these are the things I can think of, off the top of my head. All in all it was an interesting experience, still processing everything.

Updated On: 4/29/18 at 09:23 PM

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 4/30/18 at 12:10am

Carousel a period piece? Maybe, or maybe it is that eternal story of a couple so wrong for each other who give in to their physical attraction and suffer the consequences. Rhett and Scarlett. Stanley and Stella. Claudius and Gertrude. Othello and Desdemona? Not sure why Desdemona fell for Othello. But it was fatal.

Seriously, a modern director might throw out the whole heavenly ending and find another way to redeem Billy. It would offend some purists, but almost that much violence is done to the 2nd Act of Show Boat in every new production. In that act Magnolia must get pregnant and have a girl, Ravenol must leave Magnolia not knowing she is pregnant, and Julie must run into Ravenol, get drunk and sing "Bill." Everything else is up for grabs. 

Carousel is a classic because of its score. There are four wondrous pieces of music that stand on their own and are still performed and recorded everywhere. "The Carousel Waltz," "If I  Loved You," (the Bench Scene), "Soliloquy" and "You'll Never Walk Alone." Sinatra called "Soliloquy" one of the finest pieces of music ever written and often performed it in concert and on TV specials.

The rest of the score isn't far behind, although the songs are tied more closely to the context of the show.

Is Carmen among the most performed operas in the world year after year because of its libretto?

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 4/30/18 at 4:17pm

Hearing all the responses here makes me sad because it shows they clearly missed the connection on this production. I think it was the NYT review that said it was a “sexy” Carousel and that what drew Julie and Billy together was an erotic attraction too powerful to ignore, which, imho, is not really the point of the show at all. It’s a difficult show in some respects because Julie is a mysterious character in many ways that aren’t communicated outside of the script’s directions, and Billy needs to have a certain ambiguity to him as well - much like how Company wavers if the Joanne can’t communicate her loneliness and demonstratably ensnare Bobby in the club scene, the audience has to be led through Carousel’s conflicts by the two leads to be able to really savor its messages.