Favorite Stephen Sondheim Musical...- Page 2

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/13/19 at 6:37pm

benfox2 said: "Of the (limited) Sondheim I've listened to, Sunday is my absolute favorite. Company and Merrily are some of my favorite scores. I'm still taking my time to get through all of his scores and trying not to rush it.

As for the all the people praising Follies, do you have a recommended version to watch? I have the 2017 NT Live version on my computer, but have repeatedly failed to get past the first half hour. On paper I should absolutely adore it, but in action I continue to get bored. Should I just force myself to power through and keep watching? Or is there an alternate pro shot/ concert that might interest me more? Thanks for any suggestions .

Unfortunately, the original production was never made available to the public in any form (there may be something at the Lincoln Center Library).  There is not even a clip from the Tonys that year, because a number was not performed on the program.  The second best  production I have seen was at the Papermill Playhouse, and I am not aware of that having been made available, and I would have not expected it to be).  So, I think the answer is that there is none, but I hope I am wrong.  

I have to admit that I doubt that I would even watch a taping of the last revival because I really disliked the production.  (It is the only production of Follies I have ever seen in which I thought the male leads were better than the female leads (and I have always been a BP fan).

While I did not love the National Theatre version, I did like it quite a bit.  My main reason for reservations is that I did not like a number of the performances, although I did like Imelda Staunton (hated her Gypsy, so I am not a Staunton bigot).  Really disliked Janie Dee (Phyllis) and Tracey Bennett (Carlotta); and none off the supporting characters made any impression at all.  I liked some of the staging choices that the director made quite a bit, however.

Finally, I fear that -- if you can't even get through the first 30 minutes -- there is a good chance that you may be among the group of people who do not like Follies.  It really was pretty good.

 

 

[binau]

Posted: 12/13/19 at 7:23pm

Not sure how you can like Staunton but not Bernadette. Staunton basically did Bernadette’s performance without having the vocals. Awful. Bernadette’s “In Buddy’s Eyes” is among the best work she has ever done. I admit Staunton might have pulled off Losing My Mind a little. Though the staging for Loveland was awful.

[benfox2]

Posted: 12/13/19 at 8:06pm

Jarethan said: "benfox2 said: "Of the (limited) Sondheim I've listened to, Sunday is my absolute favorite. Company and Merrily are some of my favorite scores. I'm still taking my time to get through all of his scores and trying not to rush it.

As for the all the people praising Follies, do you have a recommended version to watch? I have the 2017 NT Live version on my computer, but have repeatedly failed to get past the first half hour. On paper I should absolutely adore it, but in action I continue to get bored. Should I just force myself to power through and keep watching? Or is there an alternate pro shot/ concert that might interest me more? Thanks for any suggestions .

Unfortunately, the original production was never made available to the public in any form (there may be something at the Lincoln Center Library). There is not even a clip from the Tonys that year, because a numberwas not performed on the program. The second best production I have seen was at the Papermill Playhouse, and I am not aware of that having been made available, and I would have not expected it to be). So, I think the answer is that there is none, but I hope I am wrong.

I have to admit that I doubt that I would even watch a taping of the last revival because I really disliked the production. (It is the only production of Follies I have ever seen in which I thought the male leadswere better than the female leads (and I have always been a BP fan).

While I did not love the National Theatre version, I did like it quite a bit. My main reason for reservations is that I did not like a number of theperformances, although I did like Imelda Staunton (hated her Gypsy, so I am not a Staunton bigot). Really disliked Janie Dee (Phyllis) and Tracey Bennett (Carlotta); and none off the supporting characters made any impression at all. I liked some of the staging choices that the directormade quite a bit, however.

Finally, I fear that -- if you can't even get through the first 30 minutes -- there is a good chance that you may be among the group of people who do not like Follies. It really was pretty good.
 

 

"

Thanks for the reply. Those are all interesting points, and I fear you might be correct. On paper it is something I should love(Sondheim, heart wrenching, good acting), but I may have to resign myself to the fact that it’s not for me. Tonight I think I will give it one last college try, so we can hope that I warm to it.

[binau]

Posted: 12/13/19 at 8:17pm

Listen to the 2011 recording. The cast are perfect. The National Theatre cast are for the most part boring and tuneless.

[JBC3]

Posted: 12/13/19 at 9:43pm

qolbinau said: "Not sure how you can like Staunton but not Bernadette. Staunton basically did Bernadette’s performance without having the vocals. Awful. Bernadette’s “In Buddy’s Eyes” is among the best work she has ever done. I admit Staunton might have pulled off Losing My Mind a little. Though the staging for Loveland was awful."

I adore BP and saw her twice in DC and twice in NYC, but her "In Buddy Eyes" always sounded like a tremendous strain on her range and control. Painful. Updated On: 12/13/19 at 09:43 PM

[tomwsjr]

Posted: 12/13/19 at 10:16pm

Sunday in the Park with George 💕

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/13/19 at 11:53pm

benfox2 said: "Of the (limited) Sondheim I've listened to, Sunday is my absolute favorite. Company and Merrily are some of my favorite scores. I'm still taking my time to get through all of his scores and trying not to rush it.

As for the all the people praising Follies, do you have a recommended version to watch? I have the 2017 NT Live version on my computer, but have repeatedly failed to get past the first half hour. On paper I should absolutely adore it, but in action I continue to get bored. Should I just force myself to power through and keep watching? Or is there an alternate pro shot/ concert that might interest me more? Thanks for any suggestions :)"

I think you should soldier on through the NT version. I haven't seen all the bootlegs of the original Broadway production, but the recent WE revival is the best of the filmed versions, IMO. FOLLIES always takes a bit to "get going", just like the party it dramatizes. You know how parties are: if you get there early (as the show does), it takes awhile to really get going.

But be warned: if you are waiting for a lot of plot, you aren't going to get it. It's more an "onion peel" show: discarding layers of subterfuge to reveal deeper and deeper truths. It doesn't march forward as do most, plot-heavy musicals.

I don't agree with Jarethan that any of the "peeling" is boring, but he isn't alone in his opinion. Not to worry, however, the book scenes are juxtaposed with brilliant pastiches of 20th century musical theater. Those alone are worth your time.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 12:01am

qolbinau said: "Listen to the 2011 recording. The cast are perfect. The National Theatre cast are for the most part boring and tuneless. "

I agree. The National Theatre recording is pretty much  unlistenable. 
The lowered “Too Many Mornings” in which Staunton still struggled with is an embarrassment. 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 12:06am

Jarethan said: "

Interesting observation re the real issue being financing....

 

 

"

I did mean money for the amazing set and costumes, but I was thinking even more of the staff costs. Who today (or even in 1971) would hire half-a-dozen super-tall showgirls, who don't even sing or dance, just to walk silently through scenes? More recent revivals use chorus members as "ghosts", but doing so doesn't really compare.

I know you get bored with Ben and Sally, but I thought Prince's staging of "Too Many Mornings" was one of the highlights of his career. And Ron Raines and Victoria Clark, though parking and barking, elevated that song to near-operatic heights. It was the first time I felt the intermission was justified.

I agree with your entire post, however. It is certainly true that part of the original experience for me was the exploding of my 17-year-old mind at what musical theater could accomplish! Now that I know that, I obviously can't be amazed to the same degree again. (BTW, I also saw one of the final performances of the original on my next trip to NYC. Still loved the show, but you are right the experience couldn't compete.)

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 12:28am

qolbinau said: "Not sure how you can like Staunton but not Bernadette. Staunton basically did Bernadette’s performance without having the vocals. Awful. Bernadette’s “In Buddy’s Eyes” is among the best work she has ever done. I admit Staunton might have pulled off Losing My Mind a little. Though the staging for Loveland was awful."

I have loved BP since I saw her in George M, over 50 years ago.  I just did not feel that she was good the two times I saw this.  She was too over wrought from the beginning, but  more importantly I was uncomfortable with her singing.  Both nights, she strained to hit many notes.  Ironically, she did Losing My Mind very well, just not a lot of the other songs.  

I thought that she was great in On the Town (I still vividly remember her rendition of I Can Cook Too), Mack and Mabel, Song and Dance, A Little Night Music, Sunday in the Park, Into the Woods (which I strongly disliked), and Gypsy.  I thought her Rose's Turn was one of the two best I have ever seen or heard.  I thought she was very enjoyable in Annie Get Your Gun, The Goodbye Girl, though probably miscast in both.  I did not enjoy her performance in Follies (and I seem to recall that a lot of other people felt the same way).

Re Imelda Staunton, to me she was the absolute standout in the cast, which isn't saying a lot admittedly. I did not have such high expectations for her singing and was pleasantly surprised.  I thought her acting  was solid and, if her Sally was little too overwrought a little too early, it was not as bad as BP.  Sorry.

 

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 12:35am

The only reason Staunton was able to pull off "Losing My Mind" is because she approaches every role in a musical like she is doing just that.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 12:39am

qolbinau said: "Listen to the 2011 recording. The cast are perfect. The National Theatre cast are for the most part boring and tuneless."

Flawed as it was, I think the original cast recording was far superior to the 2011 version (I could not even get through it all), but the the Papermill recording is actually the best.  I wish the Encores version had been recorded

 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 12:43am

GavestonPS said: "Jarethan said: "

Interesting observation re the real issue being financing....

 

 

"

I did mean money for the amazing set and costumes, but I was thinking even more of the staff costs. Who today (or even in 1971) would hire half-a-dozen super-tall showgirls, who don't even sing or dance, just to walk silently through scenes? More recent revivals use chorus members as "ghosts", but doing so doesn't really compare.

I did always think that Hal Princes's Follies was somewhat a kindred cousin to Garth Drabinsky's Ragtime.  The lavishness of those productions was focused on presumably more than the budget / operating costs.

 

[sabrelady]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 12:59am

my favorite Sondheim shows:usually I flip back and forth btween "Sunday" and "Into the Woods".

BUT if I am feeling bitter and cynical and want to kill someone why yes then I do turn to "Sweeney" Lovely music and wicked deeds. Ahhhh!

The more he bleeds, the more he lives
He never forgets and he never forgives

Updated On: 12/14/19 at 12:59 AM

[binau]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 6:31am

Jarethan said: "qolbinau said: "Not sure how you can like Staunton but not Bernadette. Staunton basically did Bernadette’s performance without having the vocals. Awful. Bernadette’s “In Buddy’s Eyes” is among the best work she has ever done. I admit Staunton might have pulled off Losing My Mind a little. Though the staging for Loveland was awful."

I have loved BP since I saw her in George M, over 50 years ago. I just did not feel that she was good the two times I saw this. She was too over wrought from the beginning, but more importantly I was uncomfortable with her singing. Both nights, she strained to hit many notes. Ironically, she did Losing My Mind very well, just not a lot of the other songs.

I thought that she was great in On the Town (I still vividly remember her rendition of I Can Cook Too),Mack and Mabel, Song and Dance, A Little Night Music, Sunday in the Park,Into the Woods (which I strongly disliked), and Gypsy. I thought her Rose's Turn was one of the two best I have ever seen or heard. I thought she was very enjoyable in Annie Get Your Gun, The Goodbye Girl, though probably miscast in both. I did not enjoy her performance in Follies (and I seem to recall that a lot of other people felt the same way).

Re Imelda Staunton, to me she was the absolute standout in the cast, which isn't saying a lot admittedly. I did not have such high expectations for her singing and was pleasantly surprised. I thought her acting was solid and, if her Sally was little too overwrought a little too early, it was not as bad as BP. Sorry.

 

"

I admit I only saw Bernadette do the role when she was fresh so perhaps her vocals were better at the beginning and of course we have the recording but it just baffles me to see how there could be any comparison. Just listen to Staunton’s ‘In Buddy’s Eyes’ and then Bernadette’s right after. Or especially her Too Many Mornings (listen to Bernadette’s WRONGGGGG note). It is clear that Bernadette, while an aged voice, is a lyrical soprano singer with the timbre of a genuine singer. Staunton gets by, just. But there is nothing particular interesting about her voice. And as soon as Staunton walked on stage with her face all anxious and contorted I knew exactly the interpretation she was going to give. Somehow when Bernadette walked on overwhelmed it was overwrought but when Staunton does it, it’s genius acting hehe. 

Updated On: 12/14/19 at 06:31 AM

[Miserent]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 9:06am

Sweeney Todd has to be my number one. The OBC recording is probably the best recorded cast album of any show that I’ve ever heard, and the book is excellent. The only other ones I’m super familiar with are Into The Woods, Sunday in the Park With George, and Company. I’ve never seen a production of Company live and I am so excited for the revival opening in March.

[AADA81]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 7:28pm

1.  Sweeney Todd (also favorite all-time musical)

2.  Follies

3.  Pacific Overtures

4.  A Little Night Music

5.  Sunday in the Park with George

I saw the original production in 1979 and it remains the most exciting piece of theater I've ever seen.

[jagman1062]

Posted: 12/14/19 at 7:44pm

For me, it's Follies hands down.  Even in mediocre productions, i can find the brilliance of the show, and many of my favorite Sondheim songs are in that show (e.g., Too Many Mornings, Losing My Mind, Could I Leave You).  I always found the premise fascinating.  Having been in junior high when the show opened on Broadway, my parents didn't take me to see it as it had adult themes, and after years of hearing people who saw the show wax poetically about it, I truly wish I was able to see the original production.  After Follies, my next favorites are Company and Into the Woods.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 12/16/19 at 11:02am

I’m sure that I would have become a big Sondheim fan if my formative years had come during when he was ruling Broadway. But those years occurred during Rodgers and Hammerstein and Lerner and Loewe.
 

I remember clearly the night my father brought home with him the OBC album for Company. Mom was a big Broadway fan and this score had won the Tony. We were used to hearing musicals kick off with “Oh What a Beautiful Morning” and when we put Company on the old Hi Fi we heard “Bobby Baby Bobby Bubbie.” Sondheim seemed to write a lot of chanting songs. After two plays it went to the back of the cabinet forever.
 

I believe that if you took away “Send In The Clowns,” the songs on West Side Story and Gypsy have been covered about five times more than all other Sondheim songs combined. But my question is why? I have read where Sondheim was analyzing some Kern songs in depth at the piano. He talked about the way Kern composed and searched for the perfect chord. All, I think, with admiration.

So could Sondheim have written popular ballads if he wanted to, but he was just a lot more Lennon than McCartney?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/16/19 at 6:40pm

Blue Eyes, I am 65 and Stephen Sondheim is two years older than my PARENTS!

I'm sure he could have written pop/rock hits if he chose to do so, but he really is the generation before that turn in pop culture.

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 5:57am

It's pretty easy to list the order of the first three faves

1. Follies

2. Company

3. Sweeney Todd

After this, it gets tough. I'm going to go with

4. A Little Night Music

5. Merrily

6. Sunday in the Park with George

7. Pacific Overtures

8. Into the Woods

But Merrily and Sunday could probably switch places, and Into the Woods is a good distance behind Pacific Overtures in terms of quality, but not in terms of car listenability. Not sure Anyone Can Whistile fits this list, as it isn't a show most of us have a chance of seeing in performance. But if we're ranking scores, it would follow Sweeney. 

Updated On: 12/17/19 at 05:57 AM

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 10:19am

I just remembered that I had made that post. It drew the usual reaction to my off topic posts. I'm 68 and I was born three days after The King and I opened on Broadway. I don't think that everyone's favorite Bolshevik, Leon Trotsky, is quoted much anymore, but this quote just hit me between the eyes:

"“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”

My comment was not clear. I wasn't asking if Sondheim could have written top 40 hits in the 60s to compete with the Beatles and the Four Seasons for number one hit. I just used the Beatles as an example of the spectrum of music from "Imagine" to "Michelle."

I am specifically asking if Sondheim could have written, if he desired to, a ballad so universally covered by all vocalists as "All The Things You Are?" This song, many would argue, contains the loveliest melody in the American Songbook, although Kern competes with himself via "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" and "Just The Way You Look Tonight."

When theater historians look back at post 1960 musicals and sees so much domination by Sondheim, I think that people are going to notice the lack of standards from those musicals, and the lack of covers by many artists, and ask my very question.

It's not an easy question to answer and it's hard for those answering to be objective.

[musikman]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 2:00pm

OlBlueEyes said: "I just remembered that I had made that post. It drew the usual reaction to my off topic posts. I'm 68 and I was born three days after The King and I opened on Broadway. I don't think that everyone's favorite Bolshevik, Leon Trotsky, is quoted much anymore, but this quote just hit me between the eyes:

"“Old age is the most unexpected of all things that can happen to a man.”

My comment was not clear. I wasn't asking if Sondheim could have written top 40 hits in the 60s to compete with the Beatles and the Four Seasons for number one hit. I just used the Beatles as an example of the spectrum of music from "Imagine" to "Michelle."

I am specifically asking if Sondheim could have written, if he desired to, a ballad so universally covered by all vocalists as "All The Things You Are?" This song, many would argue, contains the loveliest melody in the American Songbook, although Kern competes with himself via "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" and "Just The Way You Look Tonight."

When theater historians look back at post 1960 musicals and sees so much domination by Sondheim, I think that people are going to notice the lack of standards from thosemusicals, and the lack of covers by many artists, and ask my very question.

It's not an easy question to answer and it's hard for those answering to be objective."

Isn’t it a relatively easy question to answer, though? “Pop” songs during the early part of the 20th century, especially before rock n’ roll, came directly from vaudeville and broadway shows.  That’s why so many Rodgers and Hart songs became popular standards.
 

By the time the 60s rolled around, it’s rare to find any songs from broadway that entered into the general popular lexicon. Most came from ready-for-the-radio shows like Promises, Promises ( I’ll never fall in love again), or Hair (Aquarius), but of course there are exceptions like Hello Dolly (Louis Armstrong’s version), or People. Sondheim’s prime years came after this. It’s amazing that send in the clowns even became a hit song outside of broadway. Sure, Webber (whose music is definitely more radio hit ready) has had a few, but even those have been pretty rare.

Updated On: 12/17/19 at 02:00 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 3:56pm

I agree, Musikman.

I think Sondheim absolutely wanted to create standards; he was reportedly very pleased that "Send in the Clowns" quickly became one. But he was also wedded to the idea that songs should be tailored to the dramatic moment and not left so vague as to work perfectly out of context. David Merrick was so upset that "Small World" contained the line "Funny, I'm a woman with children" and cried out "Now no man can cover it!" That sort of thing drove Sondheim nuts. 

And I think that's the real reason more of his songs didn't become at least hits on the Adult Contemporary charts. It isn't about the melodic nature of the songs (I don't think his work is any less melodic than Bernstein's in West Side Story, and once the movie company put big bucks into pushing those songs, a "score you can't hum" was suddenly recognized as a national treasure). It's about tailoring the score to the show.

Updated On: 12/17/19 at 03:56 PM

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/17/19 at 4:53pm

qolbinau said: "Jarethan said: "qolbinau said: "Not sure how you can like Staunton but not Bernadette. Staunton basically did Bernadette’s performance without having the vocals. Awful. Bernadette’s “In Buddy’s Eyes” is among the best work she has ever done. I admit Staunton might have pulled off Losing My Mind a little. Though the staging for Loveland was awful."

I have loved BP since I saw her in George M, over 50 years ago. I just did not feel that she was good the two times I saw this. She was too over wrought from the beginning, but more importantly I was uncomfortable with her singing. Both nights, she strained to hit many notes. Ironically, she did Losing My Mind very well, just not a lot of the other songs.

I thought that she was great in On the Town (I still vividly remember her rendition of I Can Cook Too),Mack and Mabel, Song and Dance, A Little Night Music, Sunday in the Park,Into the Woods (which I strongly disliked), and Gypsy. I thought her Rose's Turn was one of the two best I have ever seen or heard. I thought she was very enjoyable in Annie Get Your Gun, The Goodbye Girl, though probably miscast in both. I did not enjoy her performance in Follies (and I seem to recall that a lot of other people felt the same way).

Re Imelda Staunton, to me she was the absolute standout in the cast, which isn't saying a lot admittedly. I did not have such high expectations for her singing and was pleasantly surprised. I thought her acting was solid and, if her Sally was little too overwrought a little too early, it was not as bad as BP. Sorry.

 

"

I admit I only saw Bernadette do the role when she was fresh so perhaps her vocals were better at the beginning and of course wehave the recording but it just baffles me to see how there could be any comparison. Just listen to Staunton’s ‘In Buddy’s Eyes’ and then Bernadette’s right after. Or especially her Too Many Mornings (listen to Bernadette’s WRONGGGGG note). It is clear that Bernadette, while an aged voice, is a lyrical soprano singer with the timbre of a genuinesinger. Staunton gets by, just.But there is nothing particular interesting about her voice. And as soon as Staunton walked on stage with her face all anxious and contorted I knew exactly the interpretation she was going to give. Somehow when Bernadette walked on overwhelmed it was overwrought but when Staunton does it, it’s genius acting hehe."

I suspect part of the issue is that I really felt BP was straining to hit notes and it made me uncomfortable; also, compared to most of her other performances, IMO it was generally inferior.  With Staunton, who I have really only known as a dramatic actress, my expectations were different, and I was pleasantly surprised.  I personally thought her Losing My Mind was very effective...I did not feel that way with BP.  
 

Given her age, perhaps BP has more off-nights with difficult songs than ideal.  I actually saw her twice at the Kennedy Center, so there was no issue re ragged later in the run.  On the other hand, 15or so years ago, I feared what I was going to get when I saw her in Gypsy, based on the press.  Well the night I saw her, she was in great voice and IMO her Rose’s Turn was one of the two best I have ever heard or seen. 

Finally, I think she should focus on vehicles — assuming she does much more Broadway, which I hope will occur — that use her chest voice rather than her throat voice.