Wicked- Why the Hatred?

[nodaybutTODAY3]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:16pm

Okay before I ask my question, I just want to say one thing: I am totally aware that I am going to get eaten alive for asking this. That being said, I'm going to ask it anyway.

I have been looking through various threads on this board and I see that a really large percentage of you absolutely hate Wicked. I am honestly just wondering why. I completely respect your opinions, but no one really posts legitimate, fact-based reasons for disliking the show. I would like to know actual DETAILS about why some of you are so insistent upon hating and bashing Wicked. I happen to love the show. I am not, however, a 13-year-old teeny bopper. I love theatre and all kinds of musicals on Broadway. But I think that Wicked is a great, entertaining show. Maybe it doesn't have the best plot ever, but so what? It has great music, wonderful sets, and an outstandingly talented cast.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. If some of you Wicked haters can just post and say SPECIFICALLY WHY you hate Wicked, that would be nice. Thank you.

[Matt_G]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:18pm

Hmmm. We haven't had a WICKED fight in weeks now. Why would you want to start one now?

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:21pm

I thought we've moved onto Brooklyn at this point...

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:25pm

Oh...boy...If you've read the previous threads, isn't it kinda obvious? (Not to be mean - welcome to the boards! - but this could get ugly.)

To answer your question, I think most people don't hate Wicked with a passion, or at least didn't originally hate it. But after the boards got bombarded with people who only talked about Wicked and started the same topic in 10 different threads about whether Idina and Kristen hate each other, the Wicked-ness started to get old. Fast.

It's just a problem of oversaturation and extremely psychotic and over-zealous Wicked fans who make legit fans look bad. I think people hate the hype more than the show itself, but as with everything else that's overrated, the more you hear about how great it is, the less and less you start to think so.

Does that help?

Updated On: 10/1/04 at 12:25 PM

[stokesrocks]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:25pm

Noday,
I'm with you. Wicked is one of the best I've seen. Idina is a master and the score is wonderful. The show is pure entertainment and that is the most important. I go to Broadway to have fun and be entertained. I hardly ever sit there and pick apart shows. I respect the performers too much for that.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:29pm

The problem, NDBT3, is that the show has been running for almost a year and many of us who felt the show was almost a complete failure have detailed why several times. I personally wrote an epic post right after seeing it last November 1 that went point by point and discussed why I thought the show was the worst kind of failure possible: a show with such enormous potential that ended up being such a dramaturgical disaster (where were the critical thinkers on that creative team?) with diametrically opposed stand out performances by the two leads and two good songs.

Then, a few more times throughout the year I have been lumped in by new posters much like yourself complaining about Wicked haters. Well, many times I went point by point again explaining why I dislike the show, and everytime people have said, "Oh, wow, you've really thought about this, it isn't just a knee-jerk thing."

But really, I can't do it again. So, enjoy Wicked and explore other shows and along the way you won't be able to help but pick up by osmosis what good playwrighting can be.

[Jo Jo Mandingo]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:29pm

Sweetie, it IS a great show. A unique, fresh, innovative, creative, entertaining, stylish, plot-driven, tuneful, memorable and admirable show. Amateur composers the world over would give their Left Nut to write anything half as worthy. Try it. TRY to write a show. TRY to write clever, meaningful lyrics. TRY writing memorable tunes ... before you dare condescend to a master at the peak of his form.

I think the Bashing is the same phenomenon coined by the hip-hop community: "Haters". The Haters hate. Jealousy? Envy? Low Self-Esteem? Because it's "cool" to hate something popular, succesful, "main-stream". If it's not off-off B'way, underground, avant-guard, "insider-clique", it's not worthy of their consideration. It's pathetic.

Wicked's success will outlive every sad disparagement bandied about by this bitter, laughable group. Trust me, k?

hugs and kisses,

the Jo Jo.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:30pm

mamma mia.. here we go again.....

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:35pm

*apparently there are spoilers in here, but if you've been reading the "Wicked" threads you probably know this stuff anyway. But I digress...*

What the hell, I'll bite.
I dislike "Wicked" for a lot of reasons. Firstly, I must point out that I have never seen it live, only listened to the CD and read the book, so my opinions may not be as valid as someone who has seen it.
I've never been a huge Stephen Schwartz fan, and this effort didn't endear me to him. I thought the songs sounded very similar; they all blend together for me. I thought the lyrics were also...well, less than inspired (search the boards for the "Nessa-confessa" argument).
But my biggest complaint is that the musical has almost no similarity with the novel. I'm not in love with the book, but they changed way too many things for my taste. The ones that really drive me crazy are adding the Galinda/Fiyero romance, because it's nonexistant in the novel, making Boq the Tin Man and Fiyero the Scarecrow (for a little while, Elphaba thinks that Fiyero might be a scarecrow she sees on her way to Dorothy, but eventually realizes that he's really dead) and Elphaba's little escape at the end. In the book she dies, and I think it's so much more powerful to the story. It makes her story that much sadder, and I feel it cheapens the story to have her escape to do who knows what.
So there you have it. Those are my reasons for why I don't like "Wicked."

Updated On: 10/1/04 at 12:35 PM

[nodaybutTODAY3]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:42pm

Jo Jo- I totally agree with you about the popularity thing. I think a lot of people on this board don't like Wicked (or pretend not to like it) because it's popular. But you know what? There's a reason that it's popular.

But I don't think that there is anything wrong with liking something popular- as long as that isn't the sole reason you like it.

[stokesrocks]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:43pm

I agree Noday...

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:44pm

Type-a-Tiff and Finding Namo, I couldn't have said it better myself. I haven't seen the show myself, but because of the extensive posts about Idina and how great she is, made me NOT want to see it. I will see it after she leaves.

[nodaybutTODAY3]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:53pm

Dottie- See, I don't get that argument. The extensive posts about Idina are completely true. People post about Idina so much because she is just that good. Not to add to your annoyance at the Idina loving posters, but she truly is amazing. I think that waiting for her to leave just because a lot of people post about her is foolish. Trust me, you are missing out on something incredible. Updated On: 10/1/04 at 12:53 PM

[Jo Jo Mandingo]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:55pm

One of the reason's I'm so impressed with the stage musical is how vastly IMPROVED it is over the book, which, though impressive, I found rambling, disorganized, disjointed and frustrative. McGuire seemed to take pleasure at missing connections, dropping threads that go nowhere, introducing characters only to drop them ... and worst of all, amost ALL the action occurs BETWEEN chapters .... very odd.

I marvel at how the authors of the stage musical where able to coalesce the plot, tighten it, make ingenious and meaningful connections (like the scarecrow, the tin man, etc.) and to have things generally make more sense (e.g. on stage, Nessa's ruby slipper's allow a crippled girl in a wheel chair to walk. In the book, she is ARMLESS (wtf?) and they help her to Balance. Bizarre.)

Do you dislike Sound of Music because it really doesn't accurately portray the Von Trapp family and their real-lif experiences? Camelot because it left out so much from the 1200-page novel "The Once and Future King"? My Fair Lady because it takes such liberties with Pygmalian? Surely when a musical embarrassingly butchers it's source material (Carrie, La Cage,) it deserves derision ... but when it improves upon it, it deserves special creduit.

the Joester

[Actinggbugg474]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 12:56pm

I'm a Wicked fan, but I can understand arguements from both sides of the spectrum. I also feel the need to point this out once again. This lyric is not "Nessa, I've got something to confessa reason why .. " as you can see that makes no sense. The ACTUAL lyric is "Nessa, I've got something to confess, a
reason why .." and Rose, I would appreciate it if you could place something to the effect of ****SPOILER***** in your post since you divulged ALL of Wicked's secrets. THANKS!

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:10pm

Noday - No offense taken. I saw Idina in Rent and have the recording as well, and I just don't care for her voice. I didn't particularly enjoy her performance on the Tony's either. I actually like Shoshana Bean and I'm hoping to see it this month while Idina is away.

Thanks for the feedback though.

[nodaybutTODAY3]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:14pm

Yeah the Tony's weren't exactly her best performance. Haha but yeah I've heard Shoshana is great too so hopefully you'll like her. I think Idina was awesome in Rent, but if you didn't like her that's your perogative. I just wanted to make sure you weren't just ASSUMING you wouldn't like her because a lot of people on the boards do like her. But I completely respect your opinion. Updated On: 10/1/04 at 01:14 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:14pm

If you're going to base Idina on her performance on the Tony's, than you are OUT OF YOUR MIND.

The woman is INCREDIBLE live, she sounds even better live than on the Cast Recording. I just couldn't believe how good she was live, she didn't miss one note, everything was perfectly in tune. and she was just amazing, totally deserved the Tony.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:18pm

It's less a question whether Idina is good or bad. It's the overcaffeinated "OH MY GOD! SHE'S THE BEST THING EVER!"

Um.... no. She was great when I saw her. But not the best thing ever.

Then, there's the infighting withing the Wicked-ites as to whether Idina or Eden Espinosa were better. That latter faction has gone onto to overhype "Brooklyn" in the same manner.

Lastly, there's the faction within the Wicked-ites who continue to disparage Avenue Q's win of the Tony.

It happened. Get over it.

In conclusion, I have no hatred of Wicked itself. I liked much of the production when I saw it. Just not enough to want to see it again because of the flaws in the book and less than memorable music. I couldn't give two hoots as to whether Kristin was better than Idina, or whether Idina was better than Eden, etc. But I do hope it continues to do well.

[TGIF]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:19pm

Ok, dont want to get in the mix of all of this BUT... I must say this...

"One of the reason's I'm so impressed with the stage musical is how vastly IMPROVED it is over the book, which, though impressive, I found rambling, disorganized, disjointed and frustrative. McGuire seemed to take pleasure at missing connections, dropping threads that go nowhere, introducing characters only to drop them ... and worst of all, amost ALL the action occurs BETWEEN chapters .... very odd.

I marvel at how the authors of the stage musical where able to coalesce the plot, tighten it, make ingenious and meaningful connections (like the scarecrow, the tin man, etc.) and to have things generally make more sense (e.g. on stage, Nessa's ruby slipper's allow a crippled girl in a wheel chair to walk. In the book, she is ARMLESS (wtf?) and they help her to Balance. Bizarre.)"

IMHO, The book has so much more to offer than the the musical. Yes, Nessa is armless what is wrong with that. If anything, it adds to the plot, having to depend on Elphaba more, and more reasons for how she is in the end of the novel. I won't keep going on, but I disagree completely with saying the show is an improvement to the book.

[Jo Jo Mandingo]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:24pm

O.K., I'm Wicked bored (up here in Boston, we say Wicked alot, it's wicked cold, the Sox are Wicked hot right now, etc.)

I'm over it. Last word from me ... teh show's phenomenal success is it's truest justification. period. if it were a bad show, it would have closed long, long ago.

Now, I'm losing my mind over the POTO Movie thread. Patrick Wilson????? OMG, I'm swooning (did y'all see him in HBO's Angels? Naked on the Beach??) Minnie Driver, Miranda Richardson .... omg, omg, omg, omg, omg

Prissy, get my smelling salts .....

Aunt Pitty Pat (aka Jo Jo)

[badkarma719]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:25pm

I like the music, there are points of it that I hate
shes a terror shes a tartar

I cannot stand the script its horrible

but at this point people have moved on from Wicked


Moved on from Brooklyn



And are now bashing bare a pop opera

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:31pm

Actingbugg474: Yes, I know it's not spelled "confessa" but it is how it's pronounced.

Joester: The change I'm most willing to overlook is making Nessa unable to walk instead of armless. I mean, how many armless actresses are there? And like I said earlier, they changed too many thing FOR MY TASTE. It's a matter of opinion, and that's just mine.

TGIF: I'm with you, dear.

[wickedfan2]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:55pm

Well I'm one of those who LOVED it... The songs are fun, the music itself is wonderful to listen to, the costumes were beautiful, the singing with both Eden and Idina were fantastic and the story....well.. I NEVER READ THE BOOK so I thought it was very clever. The story made me laugh, made me cry and I enjoyed myself totally. Ive seen it 3 times and am going again Jan 9 for Idina's last performance.

Perhaps because I went in not knowing anything about the book OR the play...I came out saying..WHOA.. that was great.. I only went because my friend, my boss and my sister all said... GO SEE WICKED... its soooooo much fun... so I did... and I DID..

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/1/04 at 1:57pm

What's still tickles me is that those that dislike WICKED have gone out of their way to be specific in their critiques of the show, and yet the 'lovers' just boil it down to 'you're jealous' or 'you try writing a show'.

Well...I don't write shows. I star in them. And I'm extremely familiar with Schwartz's work. I had great hopes for this show because of his earlier efforts...in particular, his glorious, character-driven score to THE BAKER'S WIFE. Nothing in WICKED, I felt, matched the kind of storytelling. I don't necessarily agree with Namo that it was a collosal failure, I do believe it was a big disappointment.

But it doesn't matter. I'm just a hater who doesn't really know anything about musicals and am just jealous.

Yeah...that's it.