Depression is a bitch- Page 6

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 1:48pm

But that one thing had been cleared up. And the rest of my feelings and opinions on the matter had been dismissed.

Regardless, I don't wish to continue this discussion online. The personal feelings in the matter seem to be so high that it would be better served as a rt dialogue to avoid any confusion.

I have gotten to know WBAF in real life and think he's a terrific guy. And ultimately, I care more about respecting a friend's feelings than continuing a heated discussion. So, I am going to bow out of this thread. But I leave learning a little more, and I hope that ultimately good things come out of this thread for people. Most of the time, I think that's what is so thrilling and wonderful about these discussions--the chance to bounce ideas off all kinds of people and to learn.

Updated On: 11/27/07 at 01:48 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 1:51pm

Listen, I take Zoloft, but I take not a lot. I have highs and lows. I think if I wasn't on antidepressants, if I didn't need antidepressants, I'd probably be anti-antidepressants, 'cause it seems to be in my character to be like, "You know, it kills your highs and lows! And they're trying to drug us! And blah blah blah." I'd probably find some sort of conspiracy in it. But it saved my life, and I feel like I'm just able to be myself without completely unreasonable downward spirals that come from no actual thing in my life except that I'm convinced that I won't live. - Sarah Silverman


Sarah Silverman Q&A Updated On: 11/27/07 at 01:51 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 2:04pm

And plus Sarah's not fat and ugly. Ha ha ha! She just says stuff like that because it's what we're all thinking! Ha ha ha!

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 2:54pm

I'm still wondering how any of my posts suggested treatment resistant depression.

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 2:57pm

>Meds don't help. _For me_ they amplify and create more depressive symptoms.

Quoting my own post, underscore added in this one.

I was not speaking generally about medication. There was more to that post that described the super painful side effects I went through on meds, but I decided to keep it short and sweet, that the meds didn't work, that I've used other venues as said in the first post a few pages back. Sorry if that wasn't clear, I just kept the result sentence in there without going into gory details.

Here's one source, with a relevant section quoted below:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/02/22/MNG6N55RUJ1.DTL&type=printable

"Antidepressants are often criticized for being prescribed too widely, for being ineffective or for causing intolerable side effects in some patients.

A 2002 study that raised questions about the possible overuse of antidepressants found that most people being treated for depression would not meet the relatively narrow entry requirements of clinical trials to study those drugs."

The 70% figure (closer to 68%) comes from a friend of mine who works in the pharmaceutical industry--the companies know that the drugs help only minority of the people who try them, but the companies market them as if the reverse were true.

>I see.

Sorry, Jane2. I had to leave my computer to do laundry. So sorry I wasn't available to answer you in the 17-minute window between your two posts. Elaborate on what? Treatment-resistant depression (I'm just gonna call it TRD from now on) itself, or how your agreeing with PalJoey in his invalidation of my personal experience highlighted how many people are in denial of the possibility that meds don't work for everyone?

Meds are great when they work. I know people for whom they work. They don't work for me at all. I've tried. When depression lifts, it's great. Believe me, I didn't accept depression as a real illness until only a few years ago. I thought I was just predisposed to sadness, as are quite a few family members. But part of healing is accepting that you're sick. I'm not a fan of misery, Phyllis. I work pretty hard to be as healthy and as balanced as I can. It can be an uphill battle, and no, not something I ever discuss openly.

TRD is a grey area--sometimes only partial or marginal response to meds is counted in efficacy stats. My GP isn't a fan of the overmedicating going on, either, and in his experience, most of his patients suffering from depression reap little to no benefit from meds. He and I have had this discussion several times.

Now, I know one person who says that Prozac saved her life. I know another who said it nearly made him take his. In both cases, they credit and blame the drug completely. Is it just that one factor? The drug companies certainly hope so, at least in the first person's case.

I wish depression were as simple to resolve for some people as taking medication. I wish it were for me. It is for some, and they're lucky. That usually means that their depression stems from a single cause that the med was made to fix.

Eh, well, so much for keeping things short.
Updated On: 11/27/07 at 02:57 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:09pm

I don't automatically believe any study done about percentages of anything, not just about the success of prescribed depression medications. If you look hard enough, you will find dissenting opinions on every single point of any single study.

I don't want to argue any more either. After over 40 years of dealing with my sister's illness, I know an awful lot about it. It's hard to have a discussion with people who haven't had the experience. This is not meant as an insult to anyone here.

As far as my experience with depression meds, as I said, I don't take them but I've met an awful lot of people who have and still do and I've never known them not to work at all.

If you've had that experience, nygrl, I take your word for it. My problem with you posting it here, is that this was originally about Spidey, and I thought it may scare him by reading what you said about meds and therapy not working.

p.s. you're excused for not replying in 17 minutes. Now you've replied a few hours later-thanks.

Updated On: 11/27/07 at 03:09 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:09pm

How do Beta blockers work? I was curious about beta blockers. I've heard that they can really help ease anxiety. Can a GP prescribe them? Do you need a physical before you can get a prescription?

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:18pm

Gee, what a passive aggressive little stunt that was, Sueleen. That was taken from the thread about dealing with audition nerves. And another poster kindly answered my question, no muss, no fuss.

Unless you have something you'd like to add.

And Jane2, my intention was very much not to argue. But Paljoey drew some incredibly incorrect conclusions and said that my contribution was stupid and trollish. Wow.

I wish you and yours the best. Updated On: 11/27/07 at 03:18 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:20pm

nygrl23 -- y'oughta ask your doctor to prescribe you some Chill Pills.

Or maybe your accountant can score some.

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:25pm

Guess you'd be the authority on that.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:41pm

See, I didn't blame the drug company for the reaction I had to Wellbutrin. I didn't blame anyone. If anything, it was my fault technically because my brain didn't take to it like it should have. Why would anyone blame the drug company? They didn't prescribe it or force your friend to take anything.

And that article doesn't really state much in the way of how often they are over prescribed or how often things don't work. Also, it seems to be lumping the other reasons these medications are prescribed (sleep apnea, smoking, etc), without really noting one way or if those reasons for prescription are contributing to the over prescription of depression medication. My insurance only covers anti-depressants when they are for depression. When I was given Wellbutrin for smoking I had to pay for that out of pocket. I really don't understand the point of the article at all, or it's relevance to this discussion, especially since it really seems to be skewed towards the insurance companies.

The 70% figure (closer to 68%) comes from a friend of mine who works in the pharmaceutical industry--the companies know that the drugs help only minority of the people who try them, but the companies market them as if the reverse were true.

Oh, lord. Where do I even begin? First of all, is the figure 69%? If 70% is now "closer to 68%" would that be 69? And wouldn't the points be negligible anyway? Can you please point me to a figure that says nearly two thirds of people taking medication for depression and anxiety are getting no benefit from it?

Have you seen a psychiatrist, nygurl, or are you just going to your GP for your mental problems? Also, if you're not willing to discuss your issues openly, how are you sure the failure of the care isn't on your end?

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:59pm

I have a dear dear friend who used to take Zoloft.. but now takes 5-HTP.

From what I can see, it really has helped.

Do some research on it. Good Luck.

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 4:38pm

"Have you seen a psychiatrist, nygurl, or are you just going to your GP for your mental problems? Also, if you're not willing to discuss your issues openly, how are you sure the failure of the care isn't on your end?"

Already said I have a therapist. I talk stuff over with my GP, too.

By "openly" I meant in general conversation. I do talk to medical professionals about it.

"Failure" of care my fault? That's rich. That's like the docs who insisted that it was my fault the meds weren't working. "You have to BELIEVE in them!" Some dude with an MD told me that. Oh, is that all. Might as well take a sugar pill.

I think the drug companies are at fault. I think they want people to believe that their concoctions are far more effective than they actually are. After being told how much drugs had improved over the years, I gave them another chance and took several different meds (including Wellbutrin) over the course of a couple of years. Not only did they fail to work, the side effects were even worse.

I hope things get better for you, Spidey. Sorry about the heated exchange.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 4:50pm

Already said I have a therapist. I talk stuff over with my GP, too.

Perhaps that's been the problem with your treatment all along. You really owe it to yourself to see a qualified psychopharmacologist.

A therapist cannot prescribe drugs and a GP does not have the time or the training to be as well-informed as a psychopharmacologist, who is both an MD and a psychiatrist.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 4:56pm

Um...all psychiatrists are MDs (or DOs).

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 4:56pm

I misread you earlier. I thought you said they credit and blame drug company not blame the drug completely. My bad.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 5:05pm

That's my point, Colleen.

nygrl23 is talking about with a therapist, not a psychiatrist.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 5:40pm

Yes, it's true that meds don't work for some, and not all meds will work the same way for everyone. But to make a blanket statement that they don't work at all is a blatant lie. Therapy didn't work for me, but I would never presume to say that it doesn't help at all.

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 6:24pm

Have seen 2 psychiatrists (referred by other docs) for the sole purpose of trying out meds. Neither of them was in network, as the ones I went to who were covered by my HMO were not too great.

Talk therapy was supposed to be involved, but I couldn't afford the seemingly universal $250 per hour (and up) fee. So I went for the less expensive "med checks", involving basically going to the office in person and picking up a prescription. Each visit was $75. Just for picking up a sheet of paper.

The meds they prescribed were fairly newly issued and touted to be highly effective. Did lots of research on my own. None of them worked, in fact, one of them made me pretty sick. I called the doctors to let them know about the "progress."

In each case, the doctors said, "Keep taking the medication even if you can't tolerate it." I told them I couldn't. "You just have to get used to it." "Doctor, I just told you I spent most of yesterday throwing up and missed two days of work. How do you propose I get used to it?" They just said, "Keep taking them and call me in a week."

I tried to stay on them, but couldn't. When I phoned one of them a week later, I got his voicemail. I left a message that I was stopping the medication--it was too expensive and it was making me even sicker.

He never returned my call. I called again, he answered, he said, "If you self-discontinue your medication, there's nothing I can do to help you." I let him know just how much he sucked at his job.

Pretty similar thing happened with the other one.

So yeah, I talk to a therapist. Social worker, her fees are affordable and her approach is more holistic, which seems to jibe with me more. But therapy doesn't really help me. I'm trying, that's all I can say. I'm also awfully tired.

Rose, I didn't make a blanket statement if you're referring to anything I've posted. I don't know how else to clarify. Perhaps I should put it into song, given what board this is. Call it 'Prozac, the Musical' and try to find a word that rhymes with 'monoamine.' (thorazine?)

Updated On: 11/27/07 at 06:24 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 10:56pm

I don't know how else to clarify.

The best way to clarify is read what you've written before you press "Post Message."

Then ask yourself, "Could anyone take that the wrong way?"

If your answer is no, press "Post Message."

If your answer is "yes," rewrite and repeat.

If your answer is "Who gives a F*CK?" please post elsewhere.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 11:13pm

I agree with terminating any psychiatrist who would use a phrase like "self-discontinue." Those side effects you described were horrible. Maybe you were going to have a baby!

Updated On: 11/27/07 at 11:13 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 11:24pm

Namo...I wish I knew how to self-discontinue you.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 11:25pm

I hate when a movie ends with To be Self-Discontinued.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 11:27pm

finis.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 11:42pm

See, nygrl, I was just confused because you so vehemently dismissed medication for your depression and determined from a couple of really horrible experiences that medication for you was a terrible and literally sickening thing, yet here you are on another thread asking for advice on how to get mood altering drugs, even without a Doctor's consultation. So you can see how I might have been confused by your inconsistent attitude and behavior.

You obviously had some really bad doctors who should have been reported to the "bad Dr. Board."
As I said earlier, since it seems you did not read the entire thread before you started posting, you can not expect to be cured your first time at bat. Or your second. It might take YEARS to find a medication that works for you. And yes, there may come a time when you AND YOUR DOCOTOR decide that the side effects are not worth the benifits.
My point that I have been trying to make in this thread is that NO ONE on a FREAKING MESSAGE BOARD can make those choices for you.

Not passive/aggressive, just kind of over it all.