Depression is a bitch- Page 5

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/26/07 at 2:56pm

In the era of managed care, it's pretty hard to get prior authorization for the kind of luxurious ongoing talk therapy that made my life a lot better back when I needed it to.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/26/07 at 2:56pm

And what I want you to realize is that I am not trying to add to that stigma. Nothing I have said is in any way, shape, or form a dismissal to people who need medical help.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/26/07 at 2:57pm

i am dismissing all of you therapods! next!

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/26/07 at 3:06pm

And what I want you to realize is that I am not trying to add to that stigma. Nothing I have said is in any way, shape, or form a dismissal to people who need medical help.

I'm sure you aren't, but to stress that medication should be a last resort wasn't exactly the most sound advice. I'm not advocating medicating people willy-nilly, but when someone is need of help, I don't think the best advice is to tell them that they should be wary of medications that are prescribed to treat the problems he's going through.

A little personal note here - I suffered from depression and anxiety for years and years, since adolescence. I was told by family it was all in my head and that I need to buck up and be a man. I was convinced that going on medication was something I didn't want to do, because I was worried about being overmedicated and feeling zombified all the time. I wanted to not be depressed and anxious anymore, but I still wanted to feel like me. It took me until I was in my 30s to seek up and the change in me was like night and day. I wish more than anything I had sought help sooner. A lot sooner.

Just a quick perusal of spiderdj's posts will show that he's been posting about some kind of depression or another for a long time. He's someone who is clearly in need of help - and not the virtual hugs of a message board.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/26/07 at 3:14pm

And just to be clear, I'm not advocating that everyone who suffers a little period of the blues get doped up by their doc. I saw that happen to a roommate and it made him even worse than he was before. He was one of the reasons why I was leery of going on medication myself. I just think to try and spook someone out of considering valid options that can make a difference is reckless, even if the intentions are good.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/26/07 at 3:28pm

I see your point. I can see how my wording would have been problematic. I never once intended to imply that one should man up--I should think all of you would know that I would be the last person to express that kind of sentiment. I will definitely choose better wording for future to make one certain that I don't see medicine as something to be ashamed of--merely careful with.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/26/07 at 3:33pm

And on that we agree. It's not right for everyone, not every kind works for everyone and - perhaps most importantly - just because one goes on medication doesn't mean one automatically has to be in on it for the rest of his life, but it's something that should be conisered as much as anything else.

It's so easy to just be feeling down for a while and then suddenly realize months or years have passed and nothing has gotten any better. And sometimes it takes more than a pep talk to snap out of it. Again, I really hope spider figures out a way to seek help beyond the board.




Updated On: 11/26/07 at 03:33 PM

[feinstein9]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 3:22am

I'm actually really glad you started a thread on this. It's interesting to hear everyone's stories. And look-- everyone has one! It was them, it was their family... so your not alone. I'm sure you know that but it's probably something you needed to be reminded of and that's why you posted here. I'm so glad to hear you *are* getting help. You can learn a lesson from yours truly. About ten years of my life was wrecked by mental illness. And I'm 22. I went misdiagnosed for years, my family didn't understand/believe in mental illness, and I'm still feeling the ramifications of all that today. Finally I have the right diagnosis and the right mix of meds. That took a long time. Your doctor will work with you (if he or she is a good one) until you find your right combo. And something to remember is this: be as honest as possible with your therapist. Part of my problem was that I had so much shame that I couldn't be completely honest with my revolving-door therapists. After being tired of such a mess, I found my own little mantra: neither can live while the other survives. That's what I tell myself. Yeah the Harry Potter thing. Stupid, maybe, but it stuck in my head. I take my medication and I exercise and I eat right, and things, I think, are going to be okay. You can do the same. Just don't let it control your life. I don't know how severe your case is or what it includes, but I found some advice from Judy Collins that really inspired me. They were written in response to her son's suicide, but I feel they apply to depressive states as well.

Truth- There is no guilt in how you feel
Therapy- Express emotion
Trust- Believe you can make it through and believe in the future
Try- Try to stay away from vices
Treat- Take care of your mind, body, and spirit
Treasure- Write about your good memories
Thrive- Be positive, hopeful, and open to love. Rebuild on the basis of hope.

That last one really means something to me, and I hope that anything said here, in my post or the thread in general, gives you some hope and some direction. It's true that some doctors can over-prescribe medications, so if you feel that something is wrong or that your trust has been misplaced, LEAVE and find someone new. There are great doctors out there that can help. My thoughts are with you.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 4:11am

I've kept quiet on this thread because I'm so very tired of fighting with ignorant people, but I'm going to say a few things now.

Jerby, you know I love you and respect you and consider you a friend, but it's more than obvious that -- and, if you remember, this was the topic of our first argument on here a few years ago -- you don't know what you're talking about.

Kringas, thank you for articulating so well everything I wanted to say. I'm really fed up with the fact that due to stigma and ignorance, people who think they may be suffering from depression do not seek treatment when they need it, and as a result continue to suffer for years, some never seeking proper treatment in order to live happy, healthy lives.

Depression is a medical illness just like diabetes, or a broken leg. It needs to be treated properly by a medical professional in order to fully heal, so that the person at hand can remain healthy and continue living the full, rich, day to day life that they deserve.

Please do not try to convince people who think they may be suffering from any illness that the LAST thing they should do is see a doctor who then may suggest talk therapy or medication.

You -- whoever YOU are -- are not a professional in the field, and such professionals exist for a reason.

Your friends, or family, or loved ones may mean well, but chances are they do not know what they are talking about.

DJ, I'm glad that people on this board are pointing you in the right direction. The best thing any of your acquaintances on here can tell you is to go see a professional as soon as possible -- which is what it sounds like you are doing. You always have the support of the people on here, but no one can assist you in healing a medical illness but a doctor.

Updated On: 11/27/07 at 04:11 AM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 7:45am

Listen, I know I have made the kind of ignorant jokes in the past that offended people:

"Somebody needs to take their meds"

"Someone stopped taking their meds"

And you & I and iflit & I talked about how that kind of joking isn't funny despite being said all over pop culture. And I agreed and cut that kind of stuff out of what I considered ok to joke about.

But the ONLY thing I have said in this thread that I take back or feel I learned that I needed to word myself better on was the distinction on saying whether medication should be something someone should be cautious about as opposed to the dangerous wording of "last resort". Otherwise, I do not know how to make myself any clearer than I have that I hold no stigmas, but do feel there has justifiably been much reason to be careful.

I do not appreciate being told I don't know what I am talking about when I, too, have had depression enter my life amongst friends or loved ones. I do not appreciate having my feelings on this subject invalidated just because I don't have clinical depression myself--when others have agreed with me about many of the points you may well be damning me for. I do indeed know a thing or two.

And, I am really getting tired of some people acting like this topic is so taboo and precious it should be off limits unless one agrees absolutely. People have no problem debating the nuances of AIDS or cancer or any number of sensitive issues, but when the topic of depression comes up, people act ridiculously delicate around here.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 7:58am

What is clear is that depression hits people in different ways. It is not something that has one magic cure-all pill that will work for everyone.But treatment should only be done under proper supervision of a professional (most of whom I would venture to say would NEVER prescribe antidepressants without careful screening and most certainly not after your first visit). You can not say, "Oh, don't take THAT drug, it made my Mama CRAZY!" Because you know what? It works for some people or it would not be out there.

So the point is you have to find out what works for YOU. If it is talk therapy, fine. If that fails there are plenty of other options that you AND YOUR DOCTOR should explore TOGETHER!

If you want to be cheered up by cyber friends on a message board, fine, but do NOT take their advice on how to treat SERIOUS DEPRESSION that makes you feel "as bad as you have ever felt in your LIFE."

Everyone here means well, so there is no need for name calling. Just be sensible and use your noggin!

(But very well said, I Wanna Be and Phyllis. And no Jerby, no one thinks you are an idiot, just a bit misguided.)

Peace and HAPPINESS to all.

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:35am

Meds don't help. For me they amplify and create more depressive symptoms. Therapy doesn't help, either. I keep going because it's something at least.

I asked my accountant if therapy was considered a deductible expense. His only response was to laugh and say, "The government doesn't want to know that you've been in THERAPY." I told him to watch his words, to try again and this time, answer professionally. He looked like he couldn't believe I didn't like his "joke."

Yeah, we're living in medieval times when it comes to depression and anxiety disorders. The drugs so often prescribed now will probably be laughed at in the future.

By the way, saw this postcard this week on postsecret.com--how many times have I thought this very thing:

...okay, the image isn't working. Anyway, it's on the website this week--scroll down to the postcard with the two scuba divers. Updated On: 11/27/07 at 08:35 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:06am

You ought to watch your words yourself.

[blueroses]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:16am

Get a new accountant. If you're receiving therapy for a medical condition you can absolutely write it off as long as what you pay out of pocket meets the 7.5% adjusted gross income threshold. Save EVERY medical related receipt--including prescriptions (you can get an end-of-the-year printout from your pharmacy), whatever you pay towards your insurance, everything.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p502/index.html
Updated On: 11/27/07 at 09:16 AM

[Chita1933]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:34am

Identify the triggers that "get you down" and try avoiding them.

It could be eating junk food or sitting in front of the TV or any behavior that might reinforce those feeling of unworthiness.

Sometimes depression is a way of handling fear. Fear of success and of failure. Depression gives us an excuse not to try.

...and yes, depending on how deep the depression is, meds and talk therapy combined.

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:52am

Thanks for the link, blueroses.

>You ought to watch your words yourself.

?

Updated On: 11/27/07 at 09:52 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:56am

"Meds don't help. ... Therapy doesn't help"

That was a stupid and dangerous thing to add to this thread.

Given your story about your accountant--and all the discussion in this thread about jrby's responses, including his most recent and very gracious one--you ought to understand how inappropriate those statements are in a thread in which someone is asking advice.

Unless, of course, you're just another troll, looking to stir up controversy.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 10:01am

You beat me to it, PJ!

[nygrl23]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 10:05am

WHAT?

Are you serious? I said that those things didn't work for me. I posted earlier what does work for me. It's called 'another point of view,' unless you don't like hearing that some people have to struggle to feel better, that a pill doesn't solve their problems.

It's called reality. Or do you work for Lilly/Pfizer and don't want it to get out there that meds don't work for nearly 70% of the people who take them?

So typical and self-righteous that people with zero personal experience with an illness would presume to know what should be put out there about it than someone who's actually dealt with it.

The accountant story, by the way, was to underscore what people were already talking about--the social stigma of the illness. PalJoey and Jane 2, your responses also show the stigma within the stigma--the high incidence of treatment-resistant depression. Updated On: 11/27/07 at 10:05 AM

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 10:37am

"Jane 2, your responses also show the stigma within the stigma--the high incidence of treatment-resistant depression."

Kindly elaborate.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 10:54am

I see.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 10:58am

The hand towel in my guest bath ... "Prozac Schmozac, haven't these people ever heard of a Martini?"
Updated On: 11/27/07 at 10:58 AM

[feinstein9]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 11:47am

Well there is something called treatment-resistant depression, rare as it is, but it wasn't made clear in your first post that that's what the problem is. Broad statements were made because you didn't follow them up with "for me" or any indication that your personal case has been diagnosed as treatment-resistant. I think that's what PJ meant when he said to watch how you say things.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 1:38pm

I know people have different reactions to things, which is why there are anti-depressants that work in a variety of ways. About six or seven years ago I was prescribed Wellbutrin to quit smoking (not for depression). The dosage was lower than what would have been given to me if I was taking it for depression and it really made me batsh*t. As the weeks went on I didn't want to smoke but I really didn't want to live, either. Literally. I'd wake up in the morning pissed off that I hadn't died in my sleep. So, yeah, I know anti-depressants can have the opposite effect. When I was treated for depression years later I was given Zoloft and although there were some minor physical side effects as I was adjusting to it, my mental state continued to improve greatly.

Do you have a source for that 70% figure?

Do you have the numbers for the "high incidences" of treatment resistant depression, because a cursory web glance puts the figure at about 10-30%.

I think there are also people who'd rather cling to their misery than let themselves be helped. I'm not saying that's the case of nygyr23, but for some people their misery is their calling card, their identity.

And let me be clear - It wasn't simply medication that helped me, but the medication helped the clouds lift and then I was able to start fixing the areas of my life that needed to be fixed, things I couldn't do while I was suffering from depression and anxiety that had become almost crippling.

And Jerby, you did come in to this thread with "medication should be a LAST RESORT," so yeah, Foster was right when he said you kind of don't know what you're talking about.
Updated On: 11/27/07 at 01:38 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 1:47pm

This is anecdotal, but nonetheless - When I got into treatment and started talking about it with my friends (or pretty much anyone who would listen, because once I made the decision to get better I really didn't care what sort of stigma was attached to me if I admitted I was taking drugs for a mental illness) virtually every one who had been on some sort of drug for depression at one time or another told me it was really beneficial for them, often a lifesaver. I just don't believe that 70% number.

Interestingly, though, those who were never treated medically for depression (including people who really probably should be) were usually the first to ask, "Well, how long to you have to take the drugs? When do you get to stop?"

Maybe I really am just very lucky, because once I decided to get help it was pretty much smooth sailing from there on out. I made a complete turnaround in my life and I can honestly say that it would not have been possible if I hadn't been under the care of a psychiatrist and taking medication.