Harry Potter Book Club - Chapter 16 A Very Frosty Christmas- Page 22

[Atrias]

Posted: 4/3/06 at 10:12am

Ah, I love this chapter.

Hermione’s actions at the end of the chapter, causing the birds to attack Ron, have been very controversial. What do you think?

I have to agree with caitie here. Ron was being an insensitive jerk. It was an appalling thing of him to do, especially as they'd just pretty much admitted feelings for each other. He even agreed to go to Slughorn's party with her, she must be feeling completely betrayed. Besides, considering what Hermione is capable of (even I'm starting to feel sorry for Marietta)I'd say that Ron got off pretty easy.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 4/3/06 at 1:32pm

"Hermione’s actions at the end of the chapter, causing the birds to attack Ron, have been very controversial. What do you think?"

I loved it. Hell, if the boy that I had liked for a long time (and it was implied that I was taking to a party) suddenly turned around and started smooching my dippy roommate, I'd be furious too. I only wish "Oppugno" worked in real life...

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 4/3/06 at 7:35pm

What are the moral implications of the actions of each of the trio, Harry fooling Ron, Hermione not threatening to turn them in until after the match, and Ron "using" the Felix Felicis?

Harry fooling Ron & Ron "using Felix Felicis - The only real moral implication on Harry's part is that he mislead Ron. But the fact that he DID trick him instead of actually giving him FF means that, technically, Harry has more moral high ground than Ron, who voluntarily played the game despite thinking that he was cheating.

Hermione not threatening to turn them in until after the game didn't leave much of an impression on me, moral-wise. She seems loyal to her friends and would probably rather guilt them mercilessly and hope they see the error in their ways before she would deliberately get them into trouble.

Hermione’s actions at the end of the chapter, causing the birds to attack Ron, have been very controversial. What do you think?

Awesome. Not mean enough. If I was in her position, I'd probably point the wand at his nether regions and scream "Stupefy" or "Evanesco", but I'm sort of a vindictive bitch like that.

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 4/3/06 at 7:38pm

Notice so far only females have answered.


I want to know that the guys thought!

[pndmnd]

Posted: 4/5/06 at 10:54am

I thought I'd finally hop on and give a quick answer before we end up with another chapter posted! It's been a crazy couple of weeks, but here goes:

What are the moral implications of the actions of each of the trio, Harry fooling Ron, Hermione not threatening to turn them in until after the match, and Ron "using" the Felix Felicis?

I think the fact that Hermione didn't threaten to do anything until AFTER the game (even though she doesn't really care about Quidditch) shows that, when it comes down to it, her friends come first.

Hermione’s actions at the end of the chapter, causing the birds to attack Ron, have been very controversial. What do you think?

I'm with everyone else on this one. I don't think that it's technically the right thing to do, but Ron really did have it coming.

Happy Birthday caitiesus! And, I agree, I want to know what guys think of Hermione's actions!

[Atrias]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:01am

I have a question, actually. What do you think of Harry's little "discovery" about Ginny? I sort of found myself thinking, "I think I've read this in about 20 fanfics somewhere and it was better written in some of them." I don't know, it just seemed a little..amateurish to me. Any thoughts?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:03am

The whole Harry/Ginny love interest thing seems awfully contrived to me. I think the books would be just fine without it.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:09am

Atrias I really have no idea what you mean. I absolutely love the way Harry's feelings for Ginny were revealed. It seemed very similar to the way those feelings crop up for me at least.

I totally disagree, I think the Harry- Ginny thing is well developed.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:10am

But the whole like "ooooh, she's my best friend's sister!!" conflict.... it feels really cliché.

[Atrias]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:14am

I don't really have an objection to the situation, I just don't like the way it was written. It seems that those exact emotions could be conveyed in a more sophisticated way.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:20am

The lack of sophistication seems appropriate for a 16 year old boy.

As is the conflict, it was never a "real" conflict, it was all in his head.

[Atrias]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:25am

I would argue with you, but I'm too tired to say anything remotely intelligent.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:26am

Yeah, I guess that was improper wording, but I still think it's clliché, for him to be concerned about that.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:27am

Good, because I am too tired to reply either.

It is cliche'.

But I think the Harry-Ginny relationship is intregal, and well written. It is also likely to play a major part in the overall theme of the books. Guinevere is important like that.

Updated On: 4/9/06 at 01:27 AM

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:42am

"I actually don't think that what Hermione did was justified. What Ron did was insensitive and most likely purely out of anger toward Hermione and Ginny, but he and Hermione did not have a romantic relationship, she had no claim on him. I don't think that either of their actions are okay."

Maybe not, but then Ron really had no business being so jealous about Krum. People just aren't rational when it comes to love...

And I'm a huge H/G fan, so I think I would have been happy however they got together. Plus, Harry living in fear of Ron's reaction isn't unwarranted; remember how he reacted to seeing Ginny and Dean kiss? Or when he learned she was dating Michael Corner?

[yodamarie78]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:47am

"Maybe not, but then Ron really had no business being so jealous about Krum. People just aren't rational when it comes to love."

How true. But, of course Ron didn't send a flock of birds after her either.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 11:48am

What are the moral implications of the actions of each of the trio, Harry fooling Ron, Hermione not threatening to turn them in until after the match, and Ron "using" the Felix Felicis?

I think Ron is very wrapped up in his own troubles, he is still very willing to racially discriminatory statements, laz attiutude toward cheating, and some general nastiness. To me this shows that Ron is a character who is still developing, he has never had to deal with the things Harry has, and is still quite naive. This willingness to cheat here is a part of that. I don't think Ron is bad in any way, just that he still needs to grow up quite a bit. I actually think Hermione would have turned them in, and as Yoda said was only waiting in a last hope they were not cheating. I don't see anything wrong with Harry's deception of them both.

Hermione’s actions at the end of the chapter, causing the birds to attack Ron, have been very controversial. What do you think?

I agree with Yoda on this one. I don't think the actions are "evil" or "domestic violence" like many on other forums have said, but I do think Hermione's act was far too violent. The idea of causing someone physical harm because you are mad at them is extremely problematic. Ron may have made bad choices, but he did not "deserve" it. I think of it this way, Harry is jealous of Ginny and Dean, would it not have been wrong for him to similarly attack her?

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 1:24pm

I understand penguin and yoda's points on the whole Hermione thing...but still just say "You go girl!"

She had no official "claim" but they had been hinting at it and veen pretty much had a date. And for all the times this crap has happened to me and I COULDN'T do anything about it...I say it was still awesome


Oh and I think that Harry's conflict is a very reasonable and realistic one. As is how he kinda found out he liked Ginny...sometimes it just sorta hits you.

And, if I was a guy, I would be VERY scared to be interested in my best friends little sisters. Olderr brothers can be very very protective of their sisters, even if it is their best friend. Updated On: 4/9/06 at 01:24 PM

[Atrias]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 2:24pm

For Tiff:

You might be in luck. A British tabloid is linking Dan Radcliffe to his 23-year-old make-up artist. Plus, 16 is the legal age of consent in Britain.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 3:14pm

Hi-- jumping back in after a VERY long absence from this thread. I realliy enjoy this chapter.

Anyway, I just wanted to give me two cents on the Hermione thing. Yes, it was vindictive and impulsive and fairly immature of her to sic the birds on Ron.... and GOOD, I say. I had had quite enough of goody-two-shoes Hermione by this point. I absolutely grew to loathe her during Order of the Phoenix for always being right. That kind of perfection isn't realistic, and it makes it so difficult to relate to her as a character. This Hermione, I can relate to. I definitely wouldn't go so far as to liken it to spousal abuse, though. Overall it seemed fairly harmless.

Sometime I'm going to catch up and be able to get back into this discussion! Maybe I'll work on that today.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 4:26pm

For Tiff:

You might be in luck. A British tabloid is linking Dan Radcliffe to his 23-year-old make-up artist. Plus, 16 is the legal age of consent in Britain.


*dashing from room* Pk-KEWWWW!!!!

Cheerio folks, I'm going to London!

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 5:16pm

I'll slap-fight you for him, Tiff!

[Atrias]

Posted: 4/9/06 at 5:19pm

Well, the article also said that he's stated that he's more interested that his new legal status afford him the right to play the lottery.

Posted: 4/9/06 at 6:50pm

haha I used to be in love with Daniel Radcliffe But (off-topic) was anyone else disappointed in the 4th movie? It was and has been my favorite book, and I don't think they followed it very well.

[pndmnd]

Posted: 4/10/06 at 10:41pm

Jumping in on the off-topic part of the conversation:

Order of the Phoneix is actually my favorite book (an opinion that most people don't seem to agree with), but Goblet of Fire was right up towards the top of my ratings, as well. The book was definitely different from the movie, and I completely see where you're coming from with being dissapointed. I think the reason it didn't bother me too much, though, is that I'm kind of used to that. I've read a lot of books that have been made into movies (or read a book and then seen the movie), and they're almost always quite different. I've kind of learned to go into the movie viewing it as a different entity. Then I just watch it seperate from the book(s) and am not dissapointed in what's missing or changed.