Serious Discussion-Stress and Psych Disorders- Page 19

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 9:49am

The idea of marriage creating stability in society is not necessarily about the bond between the people. It is the contract of how and when you are going to share resources etc. That is why it has been a legal issue and still needs to be a legal issue. (And also why religious beliefs should have no bearing on the situation.)

The extremely cynical, yet historically accurate view:
For thousands of years the contract was to ensure the woman remained subordinate to the man, that whatever property she or her family had, went to him. To maintain the status of the man as the one who makes the legally binding decisions. It also in most societies was solely at the discretion of the man to end the contract. (In this wholly unequal and marginalizing contract the definition of marriage as "between a man and woman" is necessary for purposes far more despicable than people seem to realize.)

As equality for women comes closer to being a reality the instution has changed so that now the contract issures some basics of equality. (The legal rights that so many gays and lesbians are fighting to have access to, without the current restrictions.) Such as helth care decisions and visittions, the manner in which resources are split, and the custody and care of children.

[beacon1]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 9:50am

I believe that marriage can work and does help society. That the plan of marriage is set up that way.

However, the individuals who commit to it and how they foster their relationship--or don't--make all the difference.

And, ideally, a child in a home with two loving parents gets a wonderful support system from two loving adults who are committed to each other and then, as a unit, are committed to nurturing a child. Parents should put themselves first and then use their united strength to care for their family. Synergy.

Again, that is what is supposed to happen and it is held as a standard to shoot for. Human nature, etc makes it a difficult task many times but I believe firmly in the principle of marriage and how it benefits a family.

Updated On: 1/27/06 at 09:50 AM

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 10:36am

I've had several long term relationships with men in my lifetime, and was engaged once. Thank god I never got married because I found that I'm not suited for it. Why? I have a hard time sharing my life and living space. I'm one of those people who treasures their time alone and very often considers it an intrusion if someone else is around. Maybe this comes with living alone for a long time, but in any case, that's me. I love my life the way it is, and never felt pressured to get marrried. I'm so thankful that I'm a person who was never affected by others' opinions.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 10:42am

I find it interesting and enlightening that beacon's Church finds that a state if singledom to be of equal worth. It's much harsher in the Catholic Church where marriage is considered a sacrament...

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 10:48am

The Church's (Catholic and otherwise) attitude and effect on marriage is another subject that I have utmost contempt for.

Since "Jesus didn't do it" the Reformation Churches hold in it in less esteem, even while allowing it for their pastors.

The history of marriage in the church is another long and tricky story of pain humiliation and inequality.

Updated On: 1/27/06 at 10:48 AM

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 10:49am

which is why beacon's Church's teachings on this is so much more interesting and enlightening.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 10:55am

Which Church are you in Beacon?

In my church there is no real stigma attached to being single. (by the institution, the people are another story) The ceremony of marriage is concidered an important right, though not a sacrament. And while there is some of the overt "be fruitful and multiply" talk, it is often taken very figuratively and used to express our need to create. Create anything, babies, art, an impact, etc.

The thread on 501c3 status reminded me of this additional aspect. Marriage has been used to solidify and control who is in which religious ethnic and social class. To keep the "races from mixing" or "religious identity from being lost."

Updated On: 1/27/06 at 10:55 AM

[beacon1]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 11:33am

Penguin, I'm LDS--a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka Mormons).

And, to clarify. All individuals are of great worth to God. A worth beyond any earthly measure. But, we believe that marriage and family are a crucial part of His Plan for us. So important are those relationships that they can extend into the eternities and not just "until death do you part."

The Plan makes provisions for everyone to have access to these supernal blessings and the growth & joy associated with them. Not only for those who live on the earth right now, but the promises exist for those who have already died and those yet to be born.

But as a daughter of God, I am no less loved by Heavenly Father than my married friends are. He expects us to abide by the same standards and for us all to be of service to our fellowmen acccording to our talents and circumstances.

Am I confusing folks?

Updated On: 1/27/06 at 11:33 AM

[NYadgal]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 11:35am

Not at all, beacon.

Thank you for sharing all of this with us.

I appreciate the fact that this thread allows us all to have such important discussions in a supportive atmosphere. Thank you.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 11:36am

Thank you for sharing beacon, I find that fascinating.

[beacon1]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:01pm

bump.

Where's Mister Singer??? He named the topic, today!!!

[beacon1]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:02pm

bump.

Where's Mister Singer??? He named the topic, today!!!

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:14pm

Beacon, that's beautifully put.

I've been through a number of chruches in my lifetime - Christian Reformed, Reformed, American Baptist, United Methodist, and now nondenominational. Yes, my family moved a LOT. The neat thing is, though, it let me have a grounding of common beliefs in the Christian faith and not take any one church's spin-off of the Bible any too seriously.

I've always been taught that marriage is a beautiful thing which allows families to flourish. However, I've never been taught that marriage was the ideal. I'm lucky in that my parents have never been the kind to pressure me to marry or have a boyfriend, but have always wanted to see that first and foremost, I was happy. My take on the issue of the church's (meaning universal Christian church as a whole, not any one building or denomination) position on marriage vs. singlehood is that if you're glorifying God, that's all that matters, and that one should be in a state where that's allowed to take place. If that means raising a family of kind and compassionate children, great. If that means marrying, being childless, and having the kind of home where people feel they can drop in any time for advice, that's great too. If that means being Cat Lady 'til you're 82 and taking in wounded strays, that's also fantastic. So, really, I guess that's pretty similar to what Beacon was saying.

Personally, I don't know if I'll ever marry, and I really don't care at the moment. I'm happy being a single gal now, and while I would love to marry and have babies I can see that if I never do, there will be freedoms and opportunities that I will enjoy that other folks, because of marital obligations, would never get to experience.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:18pm

And, it's wonderful that young women (and older women) feel that way, because societal pressures in the past didn't allow them the same freedom of choice, without being labeled an 'old maid' or being considered somewhat of an outcast.

Nor were they as able to support themselves financially.

It's interesting that most of the people participating in this discussion are women. (most. not all.)

Updated On: 1/27/06 at 01:18 PM

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:19pm

Well, then, Addy - round up the men!

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:21pm

I would like to hear a straight male perspective.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:22pm

(they're too busy posting on the cinematic castration thread... )

back to the topic at hand...

you both have written beautiful posts. I hope many people on here are at least reading them.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:23pm

or any perspective, SOMMS.

It's not just a straight issue. The history of an institution...

Updated On: 1/27/06 at 01:23 PM

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:24pm

agreed, Addy. but they are the only males who can participate in the institution. just saying.

[beacon1]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:29pm

Costume Mistress, thanks for sharing that. I hope the chance for marriage and a family comes, too. But if it doesn't in this life...there are other ways I can be happy and help others.

And, though, ideally moms can be in the home while the kids are growing up, the LDS Church acknowledges that circumstances may dictate otherwise. It also stresses the importance of higher education and/or skills/trades-training for both men and women. You never know when you may need to contribute to the family's income.

And stay-at-home Moms are encouraged to stretch their minds, take classes, and pursue activities that continue their learning and foster their talents/skills.

I do wish marriage and family were looked on more favorably. I know bright, talented, wonderful women who are at home with their children. They are well-spoken, well-informed and extremely clever (with infants & toddlers around your feet you can't afford to be a slouch!) I admire these women's dedication to caring for those who need them in order to survive and to be prepared for adulthood.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:32pm

and, yet, when a thread about supporting gay-marriage is started everyone participates. It's interesting that the historical perspective doesn't hold the same interest for the board at large. Just sayin...

Family issues, as tied to the issue of marriage are also undergoing much change, to be more inclusive of different options. It really is one of the most important topics that everyone in the 'village' should be discussing.

[beacon1]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:34pm

Good points, Addy!

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:35pm

"And stay-at-home Moms are encouraged to stretch their minds, take classes, and pursue activities that continue their learning and foster their talents/skills."

At one point I was considering dropping out of college to marry, and I'll never forget what my dad told me - "Educate a man, and you educate an individual. Educate a woman, and you educate a family." It stuck with me... and I'm still here!

[beacon1]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:39pm

CostumeMistress I LOVE that. That is the perfect variation on "teach a man to fish."

Your father is a very wise man.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/27/06 at 1:41pm

I will never forget how sad I felt after my 20th high school reunion. Most of my friends in high school were female--I was a varsity cheerleader, in theater and yearbook, so it just kind of happened. They ALL went to college. All were very bright and articulate--two doctors, three lawyers, a CPA, and a CEO among them. But, by the twentieth reunion, all but one were stay at home moms. Ablsolutely nothing wrong with that decision, it just made me sad to think about the potential possibilities and differences made if they had remained in the workforce.