The Debates- Page 2

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 12:18pm

I don’t believe that all Trump supporters deserve to be exterminated. I try to remind myself that many (most?) of his voters are just plain stupid. That’s not their fault… right? They have little capacity to withstand the torrent of lies and propaganda. These people actually believe that FoxNews is “news”. Sad.

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 12:29pm

As I said, he sticks to his themes which has resonance.  When he talks about the world heading into ww3, when he talks about the cost of food and gas, when he talks about crime and illegal immigration, yeah those are issues that moderates and independents and most Americans agree with him on.  He’s better as an insurgent candidate running against the machine than when he was president running for reelection.  He only has to flip Georgia and PA to win the presidency, this is going to be a very close election.  And as far as the cuckoo quality of trumps comments, well, the cake is already baked on that one. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 12:31pm

Sutton Foster? Aw, thanks but nope. Although, she wouldn't agree with your horrible views on our US politics. And telling someone to block you is so cute when you can do the same without any issue.

And anyone saying "you can vote anywhere" missed the part where Binau stated they "won't be voting" because obviously they are not a US citizen.

Are we really confident that either machine can lead us in these times? I’m not

Us? You don't live in America, you don't vote in America so perhaps focusing on whomever leads your Country is something you should focus more on. 

 

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 12:35pm

James885 said: "The fact that there are still a somewhat significant amount ofundecided voters at this juncture is mind boggling,even before his incoherent performance last night.

Maybe it's our collective short-term memory at work here, or the fact that many of the mainstream outlets like the New York Times and The Washington Post seem bent on 'normalizing' him,but the simple fact of the matter is that Trump pushed to ignore the will of the voters and he lead an attempt to overthrow the government. Even worse, he's the only president to not onlybe impeached twice, but also indicted and convicted. That alone should give voters pause - especially voters in the swing states whose votes he tried to throw out in 2020.

To try and frame this race as a 'both sides have their issues' argument is a grave mistake. Only one side is actively planningto take more of Americans' rights away, staff the federal government with loyalists,take direct control of the justice department, and push a nationwideconservative ideology in schools.

To me, the choice is very clear."

James, where have you been all this time? ;) What an incredible, brilliant, intelligent statement on this election. I agree with everything you said and look forward to more of your posts. 

 

[MysteriousLady]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 12:43pm

binau said: "Sutton Foster you are literally lying now or confused. When did I ever say there was no racism in the UK? That is actually ridiculous and very frustrating for you to say. There is racism in all countries in the world. I have no idea what you are referring to - but if you are disingenuously suggesting that a discussion on a particular topic about the nature of racism in the UK, or actions intended to address racism in the UK, is the same thing as saying there is no racism in the UK then you’re being ridiculous. I don’t believe that even you are that stupid and I think you are better than that. And as I have always said, and is clear from my posts and anyone that reads them, I always engage in good faith in all discussions. If you don’t want to read what I say I’d rather you ignore me or block me than be a disingenuous rude person. It is a waste of your time and my time."

I think binau has a right to opine regardless of where he lives; it is true that US politics has an influence on the whole world. I disagree that this is about the lesser of two evils because I don't consider Harris evil in any way. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 12:51pm

How many immigrants have Republicans stopped from becoming American? The American Dream (supposedly) is open to everyone. Everyone across the globe can comment as they see fit.

Especially when the US has such a profound impact on societies everywhere. Even last night Kamala said that Putin will go after Poland next. Sutton, do you deny Polish people an opinion on this election? How about the other members of NATO, y’know, the organization that Trump wants to sink?

Speaking of sinking… do you allow the residents of pacific islands an opinion on American climate policy?

[binau]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 12:58pm

Sutton Ross said: "Sutton Foster? Aw, thanks but nope. Although, she wouldn't agree with your horrible views on our US politics. And telling someone to block you is so cute when you can do the same without any issue.

And anyone saying "you can vote anywhere" missed the part where Binau stated they "won't be voting" because obviously they are not a US citizen.

Are we really confident that either machine can lead us in these times? I’m not

Us? You don't live in America, you don't vote in America so perhaps focusing on whomever leads your Country is something you should focus more on.



"

The reason I’m suggesting to block me is because you seem to have an issue with my posts. If you actually don’t and enjoy these absurd circus of a discussion then I’m happy to carry on and to address all your points:

1. The fact you’d waste time trying to make fun of the obvious typo I made calling you ‘Sutton Foster’ reflects your immaturity 

2. To be clear what my overall position is on US politics since you seem to either knowingly or unknowingly lie about what I say and I don’t believe you may even be capable of understanding: my views are that if you dig deep on any political spectrum you will find complexity, truth, misinformation, bad ideas and good ideas everywhere. I don’t believe that anyone who thinks they have all the easy answers has actually done any real research or knows much about anything - and I think it’s very dangerous for anyone to be in an ideological echo chamber without actually trying to understand deeply what and why people believe what they do. You can call that horrible, I describe it as at least thoughtful. If you are looking for someone to simply reinforce or reaffirm your beliefs I won’t do that in all circumstances because I am not an ideologue as you clearly are. 
 

3. You should make an effort to read my apparent ‘word vomit’ (which by the way I personally take as code for someone who is too lazy or stupid to read because I know I can write and I know I make logical sense, even if you don’t agree with it). As I have said, stop being so naive that the impact of the US and US president does not have long reaching world economic, security/safety and cultural effects. If it was so easy to pretend that the US is its own bubble that doesn’t concern anyone else then why don’t you stop exporting your culture, stop getting involved in foreign wars, stop exporting your goods and services, and stop importing goods and services from other countries. And while we’re at it too stop travelling overseas and cancel all of your passports. We live in a globalised world and the US is the most influential and most important part of that. Don’t pretend that your vote has no impact on us. Don’t pretend that your culture has no impact on us. Don’t pretend that your economy has no impact on us. 
 

Im not wasting my time with this simply ‘because’. It actually matters to everyone. You have a ****ing powerful responsibility and you better use it wisely. AND ironically I’d probably agree that DOES involve voting for Harris and the Democratic Party. The irony of the whole thing. But apparently exposing this machine and its leaders to ANY criticism apparently makes my views ‘horrible’ and deplorable. Grow up you’re an adult I assume. 
 

Updated On: 9/11/24 at 12:58 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 1:04pm

binau, just out of curiosity, are the last two letters if your username a clue to your location? I seem to remember a qu at the start at one time…Queensland?

Obviously you have no obligation to answer this.

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 1:14pm

I remember being thrilled after Hillary’s debate performances against Trump. And it all went to sh*t on Election Day.  I just hope people don’t think it’s over.  This election is far from over.  God knows what sort of October surprises we might get.  And it seems like we might get another debate. 

[James885]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 1:31pm

Sutton Ross said:

"James, where have you been all this time? ;)What an incredible, brilliant, intelligent statement on this election. I agree with everything you said and look forward to more of your posts."

Thanks Sutton :) 

And to be clear, I don't mean to imply that we can't or shouldn't scrutinize the Harris / Walz ticket and their policies. My issue is more with the fact that in an abnormal election like this where one candidate is a wannabe-fascist who has been crystal clear about his intentions to be a dictator 'on day 1', we should try and remember what someone in the posts above said about there not ever being a perfect candidate - we don't have to agree with every single one of Harris's stances and positions in order to recognize the existential threat that Trump and Co. poses. 

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 1:36pm

You should make an effort to read my apparent ‘word vomit’ (which by the way I personally take as code for someone who is too lazy or stupid to read because I know I can write and I know I make logical sense

Nah, the lazy, stupid person doesn't proofread their own rambling statements, gets people's names wrong, and misquotes me. I never called you deplorable so perhaps improving your reading comprehension is something you should be working on and not obsessing over our elections? 

And someone who makes fun of black out nights regarding a production of Slave Play in London is a giant racist. Your ignorance was called out over and over again yet you seemed to have learn nothing. Mocking the white gaze instead of doing research into it and the history of it makes you the problem. My favorite response to your hateful comments?

You: It feels ugly to be using people's race in an insult, and I'm pretty sure in a couple decades we will look back on these times and be shocked at how we spoke to each other, and use it as an example of how not to create a healthy functioning diverse inclusive society.I realise you're probably not actually looking to change anyone's mind and you're just enjoying speaking like that anonymously over the internet, but if you do you really do need to respond to the actual points.

ErikJ: Except black people don't have a centuries long history of oppressing white people. So it's really apples and oranges. It's also amazing seeing people complain they are excluded from a night or two of a show they have absolutely no interest in seeing. 

You also called black out nights a "publicity stunt". Disgusting. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 1:57pm

And to be clear, I don't mean to imply that we can't or shouldn't scrutinize the Harris / Walz ticket and their policies.

James, I completely agree. I'm not one of those people who thinks the left can do no wrong. Kamala Harris did a horrible job at the border and because of that we have people here with no plan, no skills, and are deeply hated. It's crazy to me that these people get $500 debit cards yet our unhoused citizens get nothing. Our citizens struggling should always come first. Joey Robinette finally corrected his wrong months ago but it was far too late. 

But, people telling 45 to focus on policy are being ignored. He just personally attacks her. That's his entire strategy. The craziest part of the debate for me was when he called abortions "executions" and the left kill babies after they are born. When Linsey Davis (so much better than Dana) stated that there is "no state where it is legal to kill a baby after birth", I cannot believe she kept a straight face. Unreal.

Harris/Walz 2024

[binau]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 2:59pm

Sutton, you are a nasty piece of work. Thank you for actually showing my quote because it’s clear now what you are doing. I don’t believe anyone who is not an ideologue would read that and draw the conclusion that it makes the claim racism does not exist in the UK. 

Additionally, you talk about ignorance but this is where I think you and that person are clearly showing their ignorance. It might be hard for you to understand this but race relations are not the same between people outside and inside the US. You are essentially applying your own US-centric framework and ideas about white people and black people in a context to which - except for recent US culture influence - is completely different. The so called ‘black out nights’ was literally front page news briefly in the UK and condemned by the prime minister, who - and I don’t want to play this game if I have to - was a person of colour.
 

This is not some obscure and radical view - it is in fact your view on this issue that is extreme and radical in this context even if you can’t see it because it’s normalised within your own culture. In the UK, it is shocking and provocative to explicitly try and segregate ourselves based on race. It’s just not something that is considered normal, proper or appropriate - and in fact is seen to cause division and further take us apart when we are trying to bring us closer together. 
 

I think you SHOULD get a passport, leave the States and open your mind. The world is not the US. The world is not what you think it is. 

Updated On: 9/11/24 at 02:59 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 3:36pm

Surely someone could have thought of a phrase less inflammatory and divisive as ‘free from the white gaze’. I’m quite sure the audience gaze will be on what is on stage and not other audience members.

I assume it's a combination of more publicity for this one due to cast involved, the use of 'white gaze' which I would say is pretty race-baity and also I want to emphasise that the UK is not the US. People don't seem to always understand that many of the US concepts and issues around race (for example) do not necessarily apply or resonate well when exported to the rest of the world.

All racist crap you have said. And someone responded with this to put you in your place:

Perhaps when black audiences are invited to a play and white audiences angrily complain they're being "banned or excluded" when every fact says otherwise, that would suggest to some black audiences that they're being told they aren't welcome.

To another poster's comment., when I lived in London years ago, I found it one of the most racist places I've ever been. There's a different sensibility in Europe, and made me appreciate, however flawed, the sensitivity America has to the racism in our country. In England, what I experienced was basically no real understanding of the attitude toward black people and felt no hesitation to insult or undermine them. It was astonishing.

The problem is you. Oh, and Here We Are was garbage and Bernadette Peters will never be in another musical again since her voice has been poor for over a decade now. *GASP*

Now I'm done dealing with you, having to interact with ignorant people like you is exhausting. Enjoy not voting in our election and being racist wherever you are, Kisses.

[binau]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 3:46pm

It's all very bizarre - a random anecdote from someone who lived in London 'years ago' as if that's the authority of the country now, random stupid insults about Bernadette Peters and "Here We Are". I actually find it hilarious that she is taking a quote I said about the provocative and disingenuous nature of "the white gaze" and screaming fire racism. I don't believe you know what the term racism means Sutton based on your posts. I genuinely think you are using the word to mean something else. 

It's very rare that I come across someone so genuinely stubborn, so disingenuous, so nasty who seems to get off on trying to put people down, refusing to listen, refusing try and understand their perspectives, calling people so many names and seeming so hypocritical in the process of doing so based on the content of their own posts and language ability. 

Sutton, I genuinely hope for your own mental health that you are ok as a person and your behaviour is intentionally exaggerated for comedic effect or something.....are you ok? Why are you on a discussion board if you seem incapable of actually having a discussion?

 

Updated On: 9/11/24 at 03:46 PM

[Pauly3]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 3:54pm

The derangement demonstrated is wow-like:

MysteriousLady said, "the ABC moderators put the pathetic Dana Bash and Jake Tapper to shame. I guess ABC isn't okay with airing unchecked lies."

You failed to notice the ABC moderators were perfectly OK with airing unchecked lies....when Harris lied.  Tying Trump to Project 2025, claiming he called for the execution of the Central Park Five, repeating the lies constantly repeated of Trump's comments regarding Charlottesville are just a few examples of her unchecked lies.

The problem is, you don't know those are lies because you (and so many) believe whatever is repeatedly asserted and allow yourselves to become "useful idiots" and then repeat the same lies.  And then we end up with a bunch of people the likes of so many here.

No, it was Muir and Davis who were pathetic.  Bash and Tapper, typically pathetic, showed much more restraint and professionalism in the prior debate.


kdogg36 said, "Anyone who supports Trump at this point deserves to have a bullet put in their skull."

It is Trump's big fat orange middle finger, directed at the likes of you, that contribute to enthusiasm for Trump's re-election.


James885 said, Maybe it's our collective short-term memory at work here....but the simple fact of the matter is that Trump pushed to ignore the will of the voters and he lead an attempt to overthrow the government. Even worse, he's the only president to not only be impeached twice, but also indicted and convicted. That alone should give voters pause - especially voters in the swing states whose votes he tried to throw out in 2020."

Just more Trump Derangement Syndrome.  Trump truly believed and still believes the vote was tainted.  He fought, lost and remains unconvinced.  That's delusion, not ignoring the will of the voters, nor did he lead any legitimate attempt to overthrow the government.  January 6th was an awful riot, but it was not an overthrow attempt.  His impeachments and indictments and convictions are suspect and more likely entirely politically motivated than based on merit.  Had Biden done everything Trump did, none of the impeachments, indictments and convictions would be in the history books.  The decision to be made - and the merits to base such decisions are not so clear cut as you think it is.


Sutton Ross said, "The craziest part of the debate for me was when he called abortions "executions" and the left kill babies after they are born. When Linsey Davis (so much better than Dana) stated that there is "no state where it is legal to kill a baby after birth", I cannot believe she kept a straight face. Unreal."


Trump was reiterating what Governor Northam had previously implied about babies being born and allowed to die if that is what the mother and doctor decided.  Not unusual, Trump's language was over the top in attempting to articulate this.  Trump was pointing out the absurd level of radicalism that exists within the opposing party and was demonstrating this through his observation of the extent to which some have said they are willing to go (and we all know many Democrats will not state any limitation).  Inarticulate and over the top, yes.  Wrong, no, no he was not.  Trump did not say it was currently legal to kill newborn babies, so Lindsey Davis' retort was both unprofessional and incorrect.

 

Regarding binau's comments, they are far more reasonable and worthy of thoughtful responses (should you choose to respond) than so many others here.  Given historical patterns demonstrated on this board, it is no surprise not everyone who has chosen to respond is capable of thoughtful responses.

 

MysteriousLady made a comment about Sutton Ross that has since been deleted.  It is peculiar what the moderators will allow (kdogg's??) and what they won't.  For the record MysteriousLady, I believe your comments about Sutton Ross were based on what you have (accurately) observed of him/her.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 3:57pm

Why does Kamala personally own a gun?

I was saddened when she said that.

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 3:57pm

Yes, enough of the histrionics Sutton.  As far as the blackout nights, they happened in the uk long before slave play. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 4:09pm

Pauly… Trump knows the election was not rigged. It’s all part if his racist dog whistling. He won the White Christian demographic in 2020. Y’know, the real Americans.

[Bwaygurl2]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 4:31pm

Sutton Ross said: "You should make an effort to read my apparent ‘word vomit’ (which by the way I personally take as code for someone who is too lazy or stupid to read because I know I can write and I know I make logical sense

Nah, the lazy, stupid person doesn't proofread their own rambling statements, 

C​​

Can we all agree that verbal abuse like this (calling someone lazy or stupid) is inappropriate and doesn't help the dialogue? Can you please be more adult and less emotional? 

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 4:45pm

Of course but considering Binau said that (on post 31) and not me, you may want to relay that to them? You may want to research the thread before posting or quoting people.

Bringing it back to the actual debate, if I may, the lie about eating pets in Ohio has created some fun images online. Jimmy Kimmel said "I can buy Trump grabbing two p*ssies at once... I just can’t imagine him running,” Also, he just threatened Taylor Swift and while I'm not a fan personally, it's just more people on our side. If all of GenZ voted, Democrats would never lose another election again.



 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 4:48pm

You may not.

You’re only giving further oxygen to these ridiculous claims.

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 4:49pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Why does Kamala personally own a gun?

I was saddened when she said that."

Perhaps she owns a gun because it's her Second Amendment right.

Your sexism is showing.  Again.

Updated On: 9/11/24 at 04:49 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 4:56pm

Sexism? Please explain the logic behind such a ridiculous accusation, HG.

[binau]

Posted: 9/11/24 at 4:56pm

I really don't like to ever resort to personal attacks, it's just very difficult when someone refuses to or is actually incapable with engaging in a discussion and uses phrases like 'word salad' to describe paragraphs that are obviously logical and coherent to anyone that can read. So how can I even respond to comments like that? I can only conclude that surely it must reflect laziness on their part because they don't want to read, or stupidity because they don't seem to get it.

I'm not even trying to say that they are a "lazy, stupid person" (as they called me) - but rather the behaviour of refusing to actually engage in a discussion and instead just dismiss sentences that are obviously written just fine as a "word salad" or "rambling" is lazy and stupid. When it starts to get to this point I think it is better to end the 'discussion' because it's not a discussion. A discussion actually involves actively listening to the other person, thinking about what they said, and replying. Sutton does not listen, does not really think about what I say and replies with the most vile toned emotional attacks I've ever seen here. 
 

I would much prefer we just talk about the actual ideas rather than resort to personal attacks, and I find it hilarious that you now are trying to point fingers to me Sutton on this because you are the single worst offender of this issue I have ever seen here and I've been posting here for almost 20 years now.