Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
#0Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 1:06pmI've been listening to Judy at Carnegie Hall non-stop today. It got me to thinking...Would she have been as great without the booze and pills, or even greater?
#1re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 1:09pmHer talent didn't come from the booze and pills, but they probably added significantly to the vulnerability factor.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
MasterLcZ
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/12/03
#2re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 1:12pmJudy had that amazing vulnerability right from those Vitaphone shorts! Those eyes could just make you melt.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
#3re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 1:14pmI mean the audience's perception of her personal vulnerability. Who knows what she would have been like as an adult without her addictions.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#4re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 1:37pm
The same question has been asked about the members of the Algonquin Round Table. What might writers like Dorothy Parker and Robert Benchley have created if the had not gotten blotto every day at 12? The list of writers and performers whose careers were limited by the disease of addiction is sad and long.
If it hadn't been for the pills, Judy might very well have appeared in the movie versions of Gypsy and Mame, maybe on Broadway as well.
And people who knew her when she was sober say, yes, she was even more fabulous: smart, sharp and extremely funny.
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#5re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 3:20pmAddiction cripples and stifles the creative process. Some claim it "heightens" it...but that's garbage. In the long run it does one in. It's been proven time and time again. Garland, Monroe, Hendrix, Joplin.... too many who were great and could have been GREATER without a crutch.
#6re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 4:24pmunfortunately, agreed.
"You've gotta have a swine to show you where the truffles are."
Yawper
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/13/04
#7re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:15pm
the talent wouldn't go away - the desire and/or ability to get out on stage might
anxiety can be a real bitch
WindyCityActor
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/13/03
#8re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:23pmActually, Judy really wanted to do "Mame" on Broadway when Angela left the production. She sang some of the songs for the producers, blew them away, but they were afraid that she couldn't handle the performance schedule.
#9re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:26pm
Sort of like, Would Madonna Have Been as Fabulous if She Hadn't Been a Bitch?
Probably not. Her ridiculous behaviour, especially in Truth or Dare, is what made it so compulsively watchable.
http://preppylife.tumblr.com/
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#10re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:28pm
...and with her track record they were probably right.
~ i'm not a fan of Garland's in her later years. i loved her in wizard of oz and some of her earlier musicals opposite mickey rooney and meet me in st. louis.
i don't care for much of her stuff after that.
~ *but* i do think she would have been more "fabulous" if she didn't have an addiction to pills and alcohol.
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#11re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:30pm
i don't think her addiction to pills and alcohol is what made her "Fabulous"...
~ it was her VOICE that made her "Fabulous" and her addictions were chipping away at it.
#12re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:33pm
although I do think that the pain of her real life did add a certain, darker, deeper factor to her singing,
and in an interview on A&E, June Allyson says that she doesn't believe that Judy could have done it without the pills, which can be interpreted in several diferent ways.
~And let us try, before we die, to make some sense of life~
#13re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:36pm
I think the pills and booze added to the "history" in her voice. Just like Billie Holliday.
Judy's talent would have been as great, but different. Think about Doris Day for a moment. A huge star, with a big talent... and none of the self-destrucitive drama that Garland had.
As a result, Doris isn't thought about with the same "pain in the heart" emotions today. She's just a really good singer from another era.
The perception of the singer is different when the drama is added in. When we hear Judy sing, we can't help thinking of sad road her life took.
(...and it wasn't yellow-bricked.)
And we can hear that in her voice as well.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#14re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:40pm
well of course the pills and alcohol took a toll on her voice.
to me it's just depressing to here.
it didn't "add" anything to her voice for me.
all i hear is a singer with an addiction problem.
#15re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:41pmMarquise, seriously. You've been treading on very thin gay ice for two days now.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#16re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:44pm
well i'm sorry ~ but i'm just being very honest.
i'm not saying i HATE garland.
i don't.
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#17re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 5:45pmand in my defense i have a very GAY avatar!
#18re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 6:09pm
Marquise --- I'm not sure if this will mean anything to you at all, because I'm not even sure how old you are...
But when I was a young kid, I used to feel EXACTLY they way you do now. I didn't ever want to listen to Judy in "the concert years." All I heard was a sad drunk or addict who could barely hit the notes anymore, forgot her lyrics and stumbled around the stage. It was depressing, and I couldn't understand any of the appeal. I much preferred the young Judy, wide-eyed, fresh faced, dead-on with her song interpretations, boundless energy, etc. The Mickey and Judy era.
As I've gotten older, and life has dealt me a few bumps and bruises (nothing like hers, I'm happy to say), I have found myself gravitating more toward the Concert Judy... I understand the weariness, the sadness, the sickness, and the "dysfunction" in her voice a lot more now. I'm even drawn to it. Then to hear her, once in a while, square off in the face of adversity and shake the rafters with her talent, despite the odds of her physical and mental condition, it's incredibly inspiring and motivating. It makes me feel like if SHE can do this... why (then oh why) can't I? Amazing that a person in that condition can give "hope" to others.
I still like the "young" Judy as well, but I don't relate to her as much anymore. That actually depressed me one day (to the point of tears, if you can believe it)... I saw the youthful spark in her eyes and in her voice, in one of those early films, and wondered where the hell did my own youthful spark go?
Then I "got over myself" and went on with life.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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Updated On: 1/5/06 at 06:09 PM
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Mr Roxy
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/17/03
#19re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 6:12pmShe definitely would have been with us longer
Poster Emeritus
#20re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 6:28pmQuite an insight, as usual, Mr Roxy.
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
Updated On: 1/5/06 at 06:28 PM
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#21re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 6:29pm
wow best12bars that was an interesting post.
i'm 35. and i've been through my shares of personal ups and downs. and maybe it's because i use music as an escape to life's everyday problems is the reason i can't listen to judy garland in her later years.
#22re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 6:33pm
I'm not that much older than you actually. I'm 43 now... but somewhere in the last few years, I began to relate to "concert Judy" a lot more. It came on gradually.
...probably after a bender... But that's another story!
EDIT: And the "escape" part makes total sense. I do that too. But sometimes I don't mind escaping into "sadness," "regret" or "pain" either. Thankfully, they're not on my plate every day! But the joy of listening to that music isn't in the depressing aspects of it... It's in hearing her overcome them, even if it's just for brief glimpses and moments.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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Updated On: 1/5/06 at 06:33 PM
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#23re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 6:37pm
"in an interview on A&E, June Allyson says that she doesn't believe that Judy could have done it without the pills"
June Allyson was an old dumb drunk. I'd hardly take her opinion seriously.
'Quise--you just gotta listen to the RIGHT Judy. John Fricke put together this complilation of ballads that show Judy off as a singer and not as a tragic figure.
That Old Feeling: Classic Ballads from the Judy Garland Show
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#24re: Would Judy Have Been as Fabulous Without the Pills?
Posted: 1/5/06 at 6:46pm
Well....
Okay I'm up for learning and getting into new things.
And one of the reasons I joined the board was to expand my knowledge of musical theatre.
You guys have more knowledge about these things than I do and I'm *not* that narrow minded to give something a try [regardless of what that may be ].
So on Pal Joey's suggestion I will PURCHASE (i.e.: spend my own HARD EARNED cash) on this collection and give it a try.
And just to prove to you that I did purchase the CD I will write a review for all of you to read once I've listened to it.
Sound good?
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