clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 118

[South Florida]

Posted: 4/7/16 at 9:35pm

"The thing that stops me from being a Clinton supporter is her RECORD."

Fascinating how you Hillary supporters can whoosh over her record.  Let's discuss her record and how she has to come around on things, and Sanders dosen't, he's always been there.   PJ, you need to get a sense of humor.  Hey, can anyone remember when Hillary was against gay marriage?  It's hysterical that this woman will say anything no matter how the wind blows and people will believe she has any kind of soul not just a lust for power.  Forget everything she has been on the wrong side of, she has come around.  Pathetic!

  

[@z5]

Posted: 4/7/16 at 9:38pm

It's true...she never tells the truth regardless of anything and changes opinions minute-by-minute. But you're sexist if you go against her. She's a disgusting, dirty snake.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/7/16 at 9:44pm

Go away, @z5

[South Florida]

Posted: 4/7/16 at 9:51pm

"What the hell have you done, other than prattle on like a drunken fool on a Broadway chat board?"

Is it that noticeable?

 

[@z5]

Posted: 4/7/16 at 9:53pm

PalJoey said: "Go away, @z5

 

"Sorry you can't handle the truth

 

[HorseTears]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 4:49am

Borstalboy said: "Where the world sees dead bodies and mindless waste, the Hillary sees "opportunity".

 http://usuncut.com/politics/clintons-sandy-hook-attack-backfires/"

 

Yeah, ^that was pretty gross.  God, things are getting ugly on the Democratic side.  

 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 8:03am

Jordan Catalano said: "Free guns for everyone! It's a revolution!"

Bernie Sanders has supported a ban on assault weapons (the kind of gun that was used in Sandy Hook) since 1988.

I feel sorry for people who don't do their own research.

 

[madbrian]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 8:18am

Research is fun.  Sanders voted in favor of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, a bill that gave sweeping immunity to gun manufacturers, immunity that is virtually unprecedented.  That vote quashed a NYC lawsuit that was pending at the time, and it is protecting manufacturers from the Sandy Hook parents.  Sanders has consistently misrepresented the impact of his vote.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 8:19am

It was his vote to protect gun manufacturers that is the issue. Why protect the gun industry AT ALL?

[South Florida]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 9:01am

The position that gun manufacturers should be liable for gun violence is ludicrous, is that all you got?

[javero]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 10:45am

Not so fast, South Florida.  How can you justify tort attorneys shaking down cigarette manufacturers for their malfeasance of the past while gun manufacturers operate with impunity?  Bernie tip-toes around the product liability issue where gun manufacturers are concerned because the 2nd amendment gives both them and him cover.  

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 10:48am

 

Bernie flip-flopped on this issue. After defending it for years with specious claims, he said in a CBS interview on January 12 Sanders that when guns fall into criminal hands "of course you hold the gun manufacturers liable." 

And then In a news release last week said he would support an effort to repeal the 2005 law provided that it preserves liability protections for "small gun stores in rural America that serve the hunting community." 

The question is not why did he flip-flop? The question is why did he support the gun manufacturers to begin with?

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 12:25pm

Yeah, so let's talk about how the Pope invited Barney to come and speak...

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-04-08/sanders-accused-of-discourtesy-in-seeking-vatican-invitation

[South Florida]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 12:34pm

Cigarette manufacturers lied to their clients for years, withheld vital information, and introduced chemical additives to enhance addiction.  Gun manufacturers make guns, the people who buy them know what they are for.  Should we hold all fast food companies liable for heart attacks from obesity?  

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 1:48pm

 

The Supreme Court made corporate liability established law in 1909. Corporations are protected against harm when judges throw out nuisance suits, thereby discouraging lawyers from taking on any subsequent cases without merit. You don't exempt industries. You toss out individual cases when they are frivolous and discourage additional frivolous suits.

Decades of lawsuits against the tobacco industry resulted in the four cigarette companies agreeing with the attorneys general of 46 states in 1998 for a series of reforms that have reduced the number of Americans addicted to smoking.

The law Bernie supported until he flip-flopped last week was designed to prevent that reduction from happening to America's addiction to guns.

Bernie's law extended UNPRECEDENTED protections to the gunmakers. The proven benefit to the American tradition of corporate liability is that if you sue Ford because your new car explodes and you WIN, all the other automakers will make their cars safer. 

Bernie's law exempted the gunmakers from that tradition of liability.

Before Bernie's 2005 law, there were several important lawsuits coming up the through the court system that would have encouraged the gun industry to enact more safety measures. In 2000, Smith & Wesson agreed to a a wide range of safety conditions in order to end a series of lawsuits that would have caused its bankruptcy, including putting hidden serial numbers on all its new guns to make it harder to scratch the identifying markings off. Those safety measures came about ONLY because of those lawsuits.

Wayne LaPierre of the National Rifle Association called Bernie's law "the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in twenty years."

Bernie's law is the reason we have the unrestrained gun culture we have today. His law took away any pressure for change to happen by protecting the gunmakers against lawsuits. Any comparisons to fast food and heart attacks are specious.

Why would he do that? He still hasn't answered. He just flip-flopped because obviously he's a bitch/witch/shrew/Shillary/Killary/Billary who will say anything or do anything to get elected.
 

Updated On: 4/8/16 at 01:48 PM

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 2:30pm

Bravo PJ!

[South Florida]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 3:25pm

This is a major issue to me and Hillary has bested him on it over the years. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 5:00pm

What do you think guns are for, SF? They are created specifically to maim and kill. It is their whole raison d'être. Of course manufacturers should be held accountable. Aiding and abetting. 

Updated On: 4/8/16 at 05:00 PM

[South Florida]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 5:10pm

I have an idea where this would have ended up in the SC, where it would've been shot down.  But you guys are right it was worth the shot, anything, even roundabout ways of getting guns off the street is worth it.

[Kad]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 5:37pm

South Florida said: "This is a major issue to me and Hillary has bested him on it over the years. "

I genuinely have no idea what your political convictions are because they seem very.. malleable.

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 6:30pm

Updated On: 4/8/16 at 06:30 PM

[South Florida]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 6:55pm

Malleable to the candidate I'm for admittedly.  I have agreed that on this issue Clinton is superior, and an important issue like this and like all the others that await us will ultimately be decided by a SC, which has been PJ's thesis in this thread.  Sanders has represented my values for 30 years  I believe we have a better chance with Sanders because we'll have all the votes that would've went to Clinton hate and eliminate them. We'll get the Independents who might otherwise stay away.  

[javero]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 7:29pm

There's a reason pundits use the term BASE.  No serious candidate who's loyal to his or her party would shun the base for tie-kickers at the primary level.  And I write this as a registered Libertarian.  My advice to both major parties would be to: (1) eliminate the caucuses, and (2) close your primaries to interlopers.  You wanna revolution, then you fund it.  Trump is not a Republican no more than Sanders is a Democrat.  The comparison is intentional.   

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 9:36pm

Bernie got an invitation to speak at The Vatican today, and he called it a great honor to be invited. I'm sure Clinton would do the same thing (pretty much any politician would), but it would be nice to see a politician called on on the terrible effect they've had on the world. I mean, this is an institution that tired to cover up massive amounts of child abuse, thinks gay and trans people are intrinsically disordered, and thinks that people shouldn't use condoms despite a global AIDS epidemic. I'm not holding my breath for this to change any time soon, but for once it would be nice for someone in a position of power to not bow and scrape to these people. 

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 4/8/16 at 10:12pm

Michelle Alexander on Bill Clinton's "Black Lives Matter" gaffe:

 

Bill Clinton says that he “almost” wants to apologize for his remarkable episode yesterday — you know, when he embraced long-debunked, racially coded "super-predator" rhetoric, compared Black Lives Matter protestors to Republicans and insisted that they support murderers, and blamed his crime bill on black politicians. Personally, I am not demanding an apology from Bill Clinton. Instead, I would like to say thank you. Thank you, Bill, for giving the nation a ten-minute tutorial on everything that was wrong (and apparently remains wrong) with the “New Democrats” and their approach to racial politics.

Unfortunately much of the mainstream media seems to be buying (yet again) much of what Bill was selling yesterday. So to recap what should be obvious by now: Black politicians and activists were not asking for "get tough" measures and nothing else back in the 1990s. Some black politicians opposed the Clinton crime bill, and those who supported it weren’t seeking punishment and nothing more; they desperately wanted massive investment in jobs and schools so the young people trapped in communities where work had suddenly disappeared would have some hope of survival. It is a gross distortion to suggest that black people wanted billions of dollars slashed from child welfare, housing and other public benefits in order to fund an unprecedented prison building boom. It was Bill Clinton's deliberate political strategy -- one he championed along with the "New Democrats" -- to appeal to white swing voters by being tougher on struggling black communities than the Republicans had been, ramping up the drug war and gutting welfare. That strategy of "getting tough" while at the same time eviscerating the federal social safety net was NOT supported by many of the black politicians he seeks to use as cover. Rep. John Lewis (who Clinton referred to yesterday as the "last remaining hero of the civil rights movement" fiercely opposed welfare reform, accurately predicting that it would thrust more than a million more kids into severe poverty.

John Lewis said back then: “How can any person of faith, of conscience, vote for a bill that puts a million more kids into poverty? What does it profit a great nation to conquer the world, only to lose its soul?”

The young people challenging Bill Clinton yesterday were asking these very same questions. You may not agree with their tactics, but they were, in their own way, fighting for the soul of the Democratic party and American democracy itself. Whether our nation can be redeemed in the long run remains to be seen.