clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 151

[javero]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 8:48am

Don't mean to be flippant. But, nothing personal, it's politics.

That, friend, is why I'm a card-carrying Libertarian in the Democrat stronghold named Maryland.  Nothing startling about this latest revelation one bit considering the context, Appalachia.  This is not the first pox on that house.  It's a variant of the Southern strategy that both major parties exploit at every turn.

Some in the GOP are worried that their party is marching headlong into a Goldwater-style beat-down.  See In Trump, Conservatism’s Old Guard Sees a New Goldwater.  Guess which states Ku Klux Klan-favorite Goldwater bagged?  See 1964 Presidential Election results.

So, I write all this to suggest that with the stakes being as high as they are currently, it was unconscionable that Sanders would get his recently-adopted party's nomination. The party's old guard has always been willing to look past Hillary's Goldwater Girl-past but not an interloper's socialistic bent & propensity for class-warfare.  I'm not trying to insult your intelligence by adding in closing that parties do indeed work that way.

Updated On: 7/23/16 at 08:48 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 10:02am

"Don't mean to be flippant. But, nothing personal, it's politics."

Javero, this isn't some candidate's campaign playing arguably usual dirty politics with a rival.  it's the DNC which is supposed to be neutral, and needs to appear neutral for party cohesion.  They've failed miserably this year.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 11:01am

They're not wrong to suggest that an atheist isn't going to do well in the south. 

[javero]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 11:37am

"Javero, this isn't some candidate's campaign playing arguably usual dirty politics with a rival.  it's the DNC which is supposed to be neutral, and needs to appear neutral for party cohesion.  They've failed miserably this year."

henrikegerman, I agree all day long and suggest that party bosses tossed in a healthy dose of "plausible deniability" as well. There are elections to win.  My dad was heavily involved in the local Democratic party's doings in NC during my youth.  I got a look behind the curtain back then and saw enough.

Both Trump and Sanders, as well as their supporters are onto something.  Trump went one step further by sealing his party's nomination.  Trump has scared the GOP establishment shaiteless by brilliantly taping into populist sentiment.  I don't dislike Sanders but never had any remote interest in his campaign.  He needs a viable party of his own if his revolution is to see the light of day beyond a few featherweight planks in his adopted party's platform.  I write featherweight because I'm not certain that they're securely nailed to the base.

The Bushes, Romneys, and Doles are no longer running the GOP show.  In contrast, the Kennedys and Clintons are still large and in charge within their respective spheres of influence.  I came out in support of Hillary fairly early on for 4 reasons, namely Putin, Assad, Netanyahu, and the retention of ACA.  Everything else is chatter from my vantage point.

Thank goodness I can still count on the Atlantic to help me connect the dots.  It's Official: Hillary Clinton Is Running Against Vladimir Putin

ETA: The passing of Justice Scalia sealed the deal between Hillary and me.

Updated On: 7/23/16 at 11:37 AM

[artscallion]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 11:44am

adamgreer said: "They're not wrong to suggest that an atheist isn't going to do well in the south."

 

But that's not what they're doing. They're talking about "get someone to ask his belief", bringing it up themselves to undermine Bernie. That's VERY different.

[javero]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 11:57am

"They're talking about 'get someone to ask his belief', bringing it up themselves to undermine Bernie. That's VERY different."

They spared us a vicious onslaught from the GOP machine had Sanders sealed the party nomination.  The fact that there was so much circumspection with respect to Bernie's core beliefs by folks who should be in the know speaks volumes. If Hillary is sworn in come Jan, the Democrats' subterfuge will be roundly considered a blessing in disguise.  Reminds me of book titled "Winning Ugly" by former tennis pro Brad Gilbert.  Don't mean to belabor the point, but there are elections to win.  And Trump must be defeated at ALL COSTS.  I wish I could dress it up but it is what it is.

Updated On: 7/23/16 at 11:57 AM

[artscallion]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 3:07pm

javero said: "They spared us a vicious onslaught from the GOP machine had Sanders sealed the party nomination."

That may be true. But it's not their job to do that. They're supposed to remain impartial during the primary process so that we, the Democratic party, as a whole, can decide for ourselves who we want to save or ruin us.

[DAME]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 3:10pm

Tim Kaines speech today from Miami was wonderful.  Perfection. 

[javero]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 3:39pm

artscallion said: "They're supposed to remain impartial during the primary process so that we, the Democratic party, as a whole, can decide for ourselves who we want to save or ruin us."

I agree w/ you in principle. However, the rise of the independents and open primaries mean that you Dems alone are no longer the only stakeholders in your nomination process.  I personally think that Hillary dodged a bullet seeing how Trump and his fellow insurgents pulled off a coup on the other side.

Shifting lanes, I'm happy to learn that Tim Kaine's off and running  I'm not the least bit surprised.  Dude made major moves in VA when it was still a GOP stronghold.  His deal-making skills are NOT to be underestimated. 

[South Florida]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 6:53pm

Like we didn't know.  Common, he lost that fight fair and square, she won.  The establishment beat him, so what?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 7:40pm

 

The "establishment" didn't beat him.

 

VOTERS did. Three million more of 'em.

 

[South Florida]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 7:56pm

That too.

 

[binau]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 8:15pm

The emails continue to suggest that there is corruption going on in American politics. It was never a fair fight to begin with. Yes, Clinton got more votes but that is an outcome of many factors. We can see here that the DNC (and throughout the campaigns, the media) have tried to give an advantage to Clinton. 

I would have never expected it to be as blatant and deliberate as these emails suggest. 

Updated On: 7/23/16 at 08:15 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 9:41pm

What do you thunk we'd find in Jeff Weaver's emails?

[binau]

Posted: 7/23/16 at 11:15pm

What is your point? Jeff Weaver's role is to forward one particular campaign over another. The DNC's role is not to achieve that goal (or shouldn't be). They are meant to be impartial.

If it were Clinton's campaign trying to out Bernie as an atheist, at least it would only be wrong on one level (exploiting a potential viewpoint that is actually the right one to have in society). For an official of the DNC to do it, it's wrong on multiple levels (corrupting impartiality AND exploiting a potential viewpoint that is actually the right one to have in society). 

[javero]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 1:15am

Look on the bright side, SouthFlorida.  Your favorite politico Debbie Wasserman Schultz has been quarantined.  She gets to gavel the convention in and out and that's it.  I think I'll make a donation to:

Tim Canova for Congress 

[HorseTears]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 1:43am

The DWS vs. Tim Canova race is going to get very interesting.  Their primary's coming up on August 30th.  He passed the $2M mark in fundraising a few weeks ago and seems to be gaining some kind of momentum (and some support from big labor) .  Still, DWS is (was?) popular in her district and she's refused to debate Canova thus far.  I think it remains to be seen if factors like her controversial role with the DNC, her support of TPP, her opposition to marijuana rights etc. will matter to voters in her district.  

 

As the Miami New Times is reporting, Canova v. DWS has become something of proxy campaign for Sanders supporters. with Canova being one of the more prominent of the dozens of progressive candidates Sanders is supporting this election season.  

 

My money's still on DWS winning her primary.  

Updated On: 7/24/16 at 01:43 AM

[javero]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 3:26am

rotflmao @ "She is the most opportunist, most transactional, mercenary politician I've ever known."

Folks in power tend to fight tooth and nail to maintain that privilege.  It will be interesting to see whether Canova will be able to make hay while the sun shines.  DWS is vulnerable.  If she's dumped by the voters of her district, she'll be too toxic to head up the Clinton Foundation if Donna Shalala decides to step down and her application to the Obama Foundation would certainly be met with "thank you Mrs Wasserman Schultz for your interest in the position of ... with the Obama Foundation.  After considerable review, ..."  Worst case, Al Gore could use some help rolling out Internet NextGen.

Back to Canova, I'm not familiar with his campaign manager, Deborah Dion, not that I'm some high profile political operative or anything.  Her Linkedlin profile at https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborah-dion-032b193 is rather sparse.  I just thought that Canova would have brought in heavyweights to help him take down Goliath.  Perhaps his campaign didn't have sufficient bank to bring in the heavies until now.  He really needs to bring in Jeff Weaver by hook or crook.

 

Updated On: 7/24/16 at 03:26 AM

[South Florida]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 6:04am

I live in a town house development packed with voters within a few feet of one another.  I reached out to the Canova campaign to canvass for them, nothing, no follow up.  The other day two young kids were canvassing my neighborhood for DWS.  I asked them why and they said they were being payed.  For all the money he has amassed I've yet to see any of it spent or any semblance of a vigorous campaign except for mass e-mail.  October 30 he gets two votes from the Mrs. and I, but it will be out of DWS hate, just like his fundraising.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 6:19am

August 30, SF, August 30.  

[backwoodsbarbie]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 10:24am

The DNC is about as corrupt as figure skating judging in the '90s. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 11:32am

Was it the DNC that kept all those Bernie supporters home instead of going to the polls to vote for him?

[javero]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 12:08pm

I've labeled Bernie an interloper more times than I can remember but do agree that the electoral system is rigged.  Voters in the US deserve to get a good look at Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Darrell Castle and others nominated by their respective parties.  As a Libertarian, I can attest to the difficulty of getting 3rd party candidates on the ballot.  Ballot access laws are set at the state level and some of the states are still hostile to minor parties.   It's frustrating sometimes being stuck between a rock and hard place having to hate-vote in some races versus voting my conscience.  Nevertheless, politics is truly the art of compromise.

I continue to support Hillary for two reasons.  First, I found her the most qualified candidate at the outset followed closely by John Kasich, Jeb Bush, and Gary Johnson. Second, this is not the season of poets.  The world needs a sterner leader than Obama to beat back ISIS, contain Putin, negotiate with Netanyahu or his successor, and solve the Assad problem.  Neither Trump nor Sanders ever made my short list in spite of what I believe to be Bernie's good heart.

Updated On: 7/24/16 at 12:08 PM

[artscallion]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 2:20pm

Jordan Catalano said: "Was it the DNC that kept all those Bernie supporters home instead of going to the polls to vote for him?"

 

This is not about Bernie or Hilary or who won or lost. I'm not even a Bernie supporter. This is about the corruption of the DNC, who are not supposed to be manipulating things for or against one of their own candidates, no matter who they are. It's not about this race, which is over. It's about future races and trust.

[javero]

Posted: 7/24/16 at 2:52pm

artscallion said: "It's not about this race, which is over. It's about future races and trust."

I agree and suggest that a younger more party-loyal version of Sanders will emerge and give the establishment hell soon.  I'm not ageist but Hillary, Trump, and Bernie are all rather senior.  In fact, on Friday, January 20, 2017, Trump or Hillary will be the 2nd oldest person to take the oath of office, trailing only Ronald Reagan.  All eyes had better be on Nikki Haley long before 2020.