#26
Posted: 12/16/08 at 9:44am
^ But it is supposed to be preparing you for real life.
http://www.youtube.com/huskcharmer
20/20 - White high school doing "The Wiz" — Page 2
#27
Posted: 12/16/08 at 9:54am
I agree high school isn't real life in any sense (although when you are there you think that's what life is like) but I think type casting just prepares them for what it's really like in the real world though unfortunately. I definitely believe in breaking stereotypes and color blind casting but, most people do get type casts based on their looks. It's especially good for the kids who want to perform professionally because it gets them accostumed to rejection. Like the one boy in the show who was really talented and wanted to be a professional actor and didn't get a lead. High school puts them in a bubble and they don't know what to expect when they get into the real world and they aren't getting all the leads anymore.
If you hide from yourself, be someone else for someone else's sake, that would be the greatest mistake - bare
#28
Posted: 12/16/08 at 11:01am
Well personally Ive never met any non white/attractive/thin high school performer intent on being a real world performer who didn't know their "type" and what type of roles to expect in the real world. Most of the high schoolers Ive met who expected to work right out of high school were the ones who usually got all the leads.
High school and college should be a time of experimentation, not setting limits for yourself before you've even begun. Fat kids know they're fat, people of color know they're not white (and will be cast as a POC unless they can "pass" for white), and if you're a "character actress" you know it. Limiting high schoolers from the start I think limits their skills and abilities. Always make the pretty blonde the sweet innocent ingenue, that may be all she knows how to do. Always make the fat girl the old lady, that maybe be all she knows how to do.
Me? I like to see the sweet pretty blonde be able to play a good old lady, the fat girl the femme fatal and the "ethnic" guy a leading man.
And ideally I wish they'd get rid of type-casting in the real world too. It seems nobody trusts the suspension of disbelief anymore.
High school and college should be a time of experimentation, not setting limits for yourself before you've even begun. Fat kids know they're fat, people of color know they're not white (and will be cast as a POC unless they can "pass" for white), and if you're a "character actress" you know it. Limiting high schoolers from the start I think limits their skills and abilities. Always make the pretty blonde the sweet innocent ingenue, that may be all she knows how to do. Always make the fat girl the old lady, that maybe be all she knows how to do.
Me? I like to see the sweet pretty blonde be able to play a good old lady, the fat girl the femme fatal and the "ethnic" guy a leading man.
And ideally I wish they'd get rid of type-casting in the real world too. It seems nobody trusts the suspension of disbelief anymore.
"This ocean runs more dark and deep than you may think you know...I'll be the fear of the fire at sea."
-Marie Christine
Updated On: 12/16/08 at 11:01 AM
#29
Posted: 12/16/08 at 12:14pm
Yeah, it was ridiculous when the Butler twins were singing along with the girl playing Glinda. I agree that the Dorothy understudy was good, and those white seniors really did get screwed over. I thought that most directors choose shows based on their senior talent.
Again, I thought that Dorothy was pretty good, but her attitude at the beginning annoyed me.
Again, I thought that Dorothy was pretty good, but her attitude at the beginning annoyed me.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#30
Posted: 12/16/08 at 12:24pm
> Musical Theatre is the ONLY indigenous American art form.
wow ... that revelation is going to come as quite a shock to decades of jazz musicians, gospel singers, tap dancers, folk artists, etc.
wow ... that revelation is going to come as quite a shock to decades of jazz musicians, gospel singers, tap dancers, folk artists, etc.
"You, sir, are a moron." (PlayItAgain)
#31
Posted: 12/16/08 at 1:28pm
This high school is actually right near me - and I met a few of the performers, because the "national awards" they talked about in the "where are they now" segment at the end were actually the National Capital Area Cappie Awards for high school theater. I met Martina (Dorothy) at a photo shoot for Lead Actress in a Play/Musical nominees and I can honestly say that she is the sweetest and most humble person... she was the only girl I really talked to (the rest of the nominees for Lead in a Musical seemed to think themselves "above" the nominees for Play), and she was absolutely adorable. Didn't even mention the 20/20 special or anything. Also, I met the Scarecrow at the actual gala because my cast was getting ready to go onstage and perform right after his win - he was also really sweet and modest when we congratulated him and told him how great we thought his performance was (the cast performed "I Was Born on the Day Before Yesterday").
Now, I am in complete shock at people thinking that the white Dorothy understudy was talented and deserving of a lead role. I'm sorry, but her attitude throughout the entire special made me want to reach through the TV, slap her in the face, and say, "You are not that good." For all the fuss being made about the twin vocal coaches singing Glinda's song -- how about when she (the Dorothy understudy) stood right there singing "Home" in her nasal, annoying heady mix when it was CLEARLY Martina's time to be rehearsing? ...Are you kidding me?!?!
Now, I am in complete shock at people thinking that the white Dorothy understudy was talented and deserving of a lead role. I'm sorry, but her attitude throughout the entire special made me want to reach through the TV, slap her in the face, and say, "You are not that good." For all the fuss being made about the twin vocal coaches singing Glinda's song -- how about when she (the Dorothy understudy) stood right there singing "Home" in her nasal, annoying heady mix when it was CLEARLY Martina's time to be rehearsing? ...Are you kidding me?!?!
#32
Posted: 12/16/08 at 1:36pm
I didn't see this special. But My High School did an all-white Wiz about 6-7 years ago. And they didn't get a 20/20 special.
#33
Posted: 12/16/08 at 1:37pm
Why does the thread title call it a white high school? Or is called White High School?
#34
Posted: 12/16/08 at 1:57pm
wow ... that revelation is going to come as quite a shock to decades of jazz musicians, gospel singers, tap dancers, folk artists, etc.
Tap shoes were invented in ancient Rome. Just an interesting little tidbit I picked up yesterday in class. So you can cross that one off your list.
Tap shoes were invented in ancient Rome. Just an interesting little tidbit I picked up yesterday in class. So you can cross that one off your list.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#35
Posted: 12/16/08 at 2:02pm
callitquits: That bothered me, too. I laughed when Martina (thanks, I'd forgotten her name) proceeded to belt the note and did a much better job of it.
Dorothy understudy's attitude sucked, but she did have a nice voice.
Dorothy understudy's attitude sucked, but she did have a nice voice.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#36
Posted: 12/16/08 at 2:04pm
plus wouldn't tap dancing have been developed from other sorts of clog and hard shoe dancing?
(I agreed with everything else on that list, btw. especially jazz. let's add rock and bluegrass, too.)
(I agreed with everything else on that list, btw. especially jazz. let's add rock and bluegrass, too.)
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
#37
Posted: 12/16/08 at 2:17pm
i wrestled with including tap in my (admittedly somewhat off the cuff -- hence the "etc") laundry list ... but really, everything evolves, and it's all a question of where one decides to draw a particular line.
for example, i wouldnt have to go anywhere near as far back as ancient rome to find decidedly non-american roots to what most of us think of as american musical theater.
that i would agree american musical theater is a specific (and by definition indegenous) art form -- something specific happened to a predecessor genre while it has been here in america to give rise to a uniquely american form -- is as much indicative of where i've decided to draw that particular line as it is of anything else.
ditto jazz ... ditto gospel ... ditto rock ... ditto folk art ... and i'd still say ditto tap.
for example, i wouldnt have to go anywhere near as far back as ancient rome to find decidedly non-american roots to what most of us think of as american musical theater.
that i would agree american musical theater is a specific (and by definition indegenous) art form -- something specific happened to a predecessor genre while it has been here in america to give rise to a uniquely american form -- is as much indicative of where i've decided to draw that particular line as it is of anything else.
ditto jazz ... ditto gospel ... ditto rock ... ditto folk art ... and i'd still say ditto tap.
"You, sir, are a moron." (PlayItAgain)
Updated On: 12/16/08 at 02:17 PM
#38
Posted: 12/16/08 at 2:19pm
I am a high school director. I do NOT chose shows based upon my talent pool of seniors, but of my talent pool in general. In my Thoroughly Modern Millie both lead girls were played by Juniors...they were the best actors for the parts. And my school has very competitive and extensive theater and music programs.
Last year, I had a sophomore play the lead in a show we took into competition...because he proved to be the most "right" actor for the part.
If all other things are equal, then, yes: A senior would be cast over an underclassman...but only if all else was the same.
As a side note: I think the filmmakers TRIED to make race a bigger issue than it actually was.
Last year, I had a sophomore play the lead in a show we took into competition...because he proved to be the most "right" actor for the part.
If all other things are equal, then, yes: A senior would be cast over an underclassman...but only if all else was the same.
As a side note: I think the filmmakers TRIED to make race a bigger issue than it actually was.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#39
Posted: 12/16/08 at 2:19pm
Phyllis, the title of the thread is misleading. It's a predominantly white high school, but obviously it's' not an all white high school.
KFTC!!!!!
#40
Posted: 12/16/08 at 3:02pm
This was interesting to watch. I enjoyed it.
I did a production in high school.
I did a production in high school.
"TO LOVE ANOTHER PERSON IS TO SEE THE FACE OF GOD"- LES MISERABLES---
"THERE'S A SPECIAL KIND OF PEOPLE KNOWN AS SHOW PEOPLE... WE'RE BORN EVERY NIGHT AT HALF HOUR CALL!"--- CURTAINS
#41
Posted: 12/16/08 at 5:21pm
I think it's sort of ironic how shocked people are about the 'crappy attitudes' and casting based on looks vs. talent. I mean it happens all the times in High School and in the industry. My friend, a voice major, was once told during a masterclass with Pittsburgh Opera that she should be aware that she was always going to be playing side roles despite her voice (she's a bit fond of eating and chunky would not be an incorrect description).
I mean MT is not just about the 'music' but also the 'theater' and looks count for something.
I mean MT is not just about the 'music' but also the 'theater' and looks count for something.
#42
Posted: 12/16/08 at 5:55pm
I don't think people are "shocked". It's more frustrating.
"This ocean runs more dark and deep than you may think you know...I'll be the fear of the fire at sea."
-Marie Christine
#43
Posted: 12/16/08 at 6:03pm
I totally understand casting based on things like looks when it needs to be, but why does Dorothy need to be skinny? Just curious.
#44
Posted: 12/16/08 at 6:37pm
Because for some reason there is an association of "pretty" with "good", and fat in this day and age is considered "ugly". Even if your face is pretty, most people will say "you have such a pretty face" instead of saying you're so pretty. Like their face is the only beautiful part about them.
Go back to Dickens. For the most part the good people were beautiful, the bad people ugly. It's sad we haven't come that far since the 1800's. Why do leading ladies need to be thin in general? Really most of the time there is no reason other than a directors/casting directors personal preference for what they view as beauty. Heck, even a lot of roles where the character isn't constantly described as beautiful are usually cast with an attractive person. Why does Laurie need to be beautiful? Or Curly? or Judd physically ugly? Do we care more about pretty people? Value their lives more? A study recently came out saying fat women had more sex than thin women, so I don't think its that fat girls just can't be sexy/attractive.
If you audition for most roles in theater as a woman, you see words like "pretty" "attractive" "beautiful" in 95 percent of notices. Not that the characters within the shows needs to be considered attractive. It's usually an arbitrary choice made by the playright/director/producer. And it's really quite sad.
Then check the men's notices and look for mentions of how attractive or sexy the men should be. They're there about 10 percent of the time. Its really quite interesting.
People argue that theater should be a fantasy...where everyone is gorgeous and perfect and everything is black and white. Happy Endings abound.
Me, I like seeing a bit of everyone where things tend to be very very grey.
Go back to Dickens. For the most part the good people were beautiful, the bad people ugly. It's sad we haven't come that far since the 1800's. Why do leading ladies need to be thin in general? Really most of the time there is no reason other than a directors/casting directors personal preference for what they view as beauty. Heck, even a lot of roles where the character isn't constantly described as beautiful are usually cast with an attractive person. Why does Laurie need to be beautiful? Or Curly? or Judd physically ugly? Do we care more about pretty people? Value their lives more? A study recently came out saying fat women had more sex than thin women, so I don't think its that fat girls just can't be sexy/attractive.
If you audition for most roles in theater as a woman, you see words like "pretty" "attractive" "beautiful" in 95 percent of notices. Not that the characters within the shows needs to be considered attractive. It's usually an arbitrary choice made by the playright/director/producer. And it's really quite sad.
Then check the men's notices and look for mentions of how attractive or sexy the men should be. They're there about 10 percent of the time. Its really quite interesting.
People argue that theater should be a fantasy...where everyone is gorgeous and perfect and everything is black and white. Happy Endings abound.
Me, I like seeing a bit of everyone where things tend to be very very grey.
"This ocean runs more dark and deep than you may think you know...I'll be the fear of the fire at sea."
-Marie Christine
Updated On: 12/16/08 at 06:37 PM
#45
Posted: 12/16/08 at 7:20pm
"Then check the men's notices and look for mentions of how attractive or sexy the men should be. They're there about 10 percent of the time. Its really quite interesting."
That's true, but often a notice will give a height requirement ("actor must be 5'10 or taller"), which really pisses me off, being short. And, how often do you see a couple in a show where the guy is shorter than the girl? Very, very rarely, unless it's for comic effect. On the other hand, it happens quite often in real life, so why does it have to be different on stage?
That's true, but often a notice will give a height requirement ("actor must be 5'10 or taller"), which really pisses me off, being short. And, how often do you see a couple in a show where the guy is shorter than the girl? Very, very rarely, unless it's for comic effect. On the other hand, it happens quite often in real life, so why does it have to be different on stage?
#46
Posted: 12/16/08 at 7:28pm
Will this be airing again? I'd like to see it.
#47
Posted: 12/16/08 at 8:33pm
Honestly, I think that people do sympathize more with characters if they're attractive.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#48
Posted: 12/16/08 at 10:26pm
My high school did THE WIZ back in the early 80's. My sister was the costume designer, my roommate did specialty costumes. It was no great shakes then, and I find it hard to believe it's such an issue now.
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