AEA fighting with the League over choice to give "The Lost Colony" a Tony Honor- Page 2

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 6:09pm

The point of the honors is to acknowledge "substantial contributions to the American theater." There's no additional clause limiting to "Equity members only".

Nor should there be for a special honor award. And The Lost Colony hires both union and non-union, so it's not like this is some anti-union move on the part of the League or anything.

“We thought we’d smoothed things over with the Wing and the League after last year’s debacle,” an Equity source said. “And then they go and do it to us again.”

Another Equity source says: “They don’t give a f - - k about the union. It’s very upsetting.”

These are the kicks in the face to non-union performers. The Tonys try and toss a bone to represent the MAJORITY of performers and theatres in this country (not to mention the staple of Tony awards is limited to Broadway productions, which are all union) and they say the Tonys don't care about the union? The technical term for that is "douchebaggery". I hope the League decides from hence forth to annually recognize a non-union theatre every year.

Assholes.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 6:11pm

"the spirit of AEA is to support actors and stage managers in a general sense."

There I fixed that for you. Actors Equity supports actors. Stage managers are like the bastard children. AE will take their dues, but stage managers get the worst treatment.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 7:30pm

I would have no problem with the Tonys honoring a well-regarded and well-established community theater, or a performing arts high school, or a "non-professional" theatrical institution.

[Brick]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 7:44pm

I often have the conversation about unions and the term "professional".

Unions serve a very important function in our fields, by collectively representing us. But you do not have to be in a union to be a professional.

And what makes a professional? Certainly theatres that employ only union artists have higher production standards, almost by definition, since they have higher production budgets. But it doesn't mean artists working in a non-union house are amateurs.

Musicians, for instance, are professional musicians if they get paid to play gigs, not necessarily if they are union musicians. They join unions when they need to, to play in certain houses or certain jobs.

And designers? Same thing.

The directors union is a pretty weak one, so I would most certainly include that, too.

Here's a fantastic blog a colleague of mine wrote that delves into this, quite brilliantly, I think:




Defining Professional Updated On: 5/3/13 at 07:44 PM

[behindthescenes2]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 9:29pm

Poison ivy long is getting some sort of kickback here from lost colony in order for them to obtain the special tony. Poison never ever makes a gesture of generosity without some sort of return for his effort. That is his method of operating be it designing a show or otherwise he has always been on the take and always will be-just ask every costume shop in the city. Lost colony is paying him something for this award otherwise he wouldn't do it. just ask the boys in Thailand

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 9:38pm

Enough already. I saw Lost Colony twice -- once when I was 7 and once when I was 11. it certainly encouraged me to seek out more theatre. I don't see any disgrace in honoring a piece that's been a draw since 1937. Is it Equity? No. Is it Broadway? No. But it's American theatre and it's lasted. So I say, yeah, go ahead and honor them. IMO.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 10:37pm

How does the West End work? I love the Oliviers aren't so closed minded in terms of what/who they nominate. I wish the Tonys would open more to New York theater as opposed to just Broadway, especially now when more and more quality work is happening Off-Broadway than on Broadway. Memphis winning Best Musical is a great point.

Also, this whole thing is just plain silly. Equity has such a stronghold on theater produced in NYC it's crazy. I know plenty of people who have been on Non-Eq tours that have gone to Brooklyn, the Bronx, etc. Wizard of Oz was non-eq and played Madison Square Garden.

To me the Tonys should be about THEATRE. Not just Union theatre. Or Equity theatre.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 5/3/13 at 11:52pm

Aside from this and Unto These Hills and the Ramona pageant, are there other examples of these outdoor pageants?

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 1:29am

Actually, during the 50's there were quite a few. I can't remember the specifics. but they were there -- not that any of them lasted that long. Lost Colony is the champ, I guess.

[winston89]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 4:30am

I agree with those who say that this sounds crazy.

I know someone who's an actor, he was telling me that many of his friends outside of NYC aren't in the union at all. Reason being is that unless your in NYC, there are more non union jobs than there are union jobs outside of major cities. The Tonys are about theatre in general not just union theatre. This is why I think it's wrong for Equity to get their panties in a twist over this one.

[John Adams]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 7:37am

> "The Tonys are about theatre in general not just union theatre."

I'm not 100% sure that's accurate, but the definition of "Tony" is a little hazy.

In my mind (and in reference to this specific issue), I segregate "Tony" into two categories: the "real" Tonys and the "honorary" awards. I'm wrong to categorize this way, but I do...

The "real" ones go to recipients working in Broadway houses only, and must meet the eligibility criteria established here:
http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/about/rules.html
Recipients are selected based on number of votes from those listed here:
http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/about/faq/index.html#10

Although there's nothing that specifically states, "must be a union member" to receive an award, the recipient must be working in a Broadway house (per the eligibility requirements), which indirectly implies they must be a union member.

If the recipient is an actor, the "union" we're talking about is most likely AEA, but screen actor and music artists can be eligible, too (I'm thinking of Barry Manilow as one possible example). The primary factor is that they are performing in a Broadway house.

The "honorary" Tonys are actually called, Tony Honors for Excellence in Theatre. They are always non-competitive awards (no one votes) and do *not* have to adhere to the eligibility requirements listed above. I'm hazy on exactly who determines the recipients, but I believe they are members of The American Theater Wing. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks for me on that aspect.

This is the category of Tony that "the Matildas" and "The Lost Colony" will receive.

* "Real" Tonys (as I think of them) are about union theater only.
* "Honorary" Tonys (again, from my warped, little mind) are not.

Updated On: 5/4/13 at 07:37 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 8:07am

It's their award, they can "honor" whomever they wish. Equity needs to mind its own business.


John Adams-- I don't think you are alone in your thinking at all.

And I agree that the damn cruise ship performane had no right to be on the stage at the Tonys last year. I don't think the tour productions should, either.

ONLY nominated shows should perform (I don't think I'd mind if one that is receiving an honrary award would perform either.)


BTW: Professional doesn't mean simply that you get PAID for it. It means that you can support yourself solely on the proceeds you make from acting. (or whatever) Union status is not necessary.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 9:58am

I'm pro-union (obviously) and say good for Equity for being vocal about it. Unions exist (or at least should exist) to not only protect their members but to also promote them. It's part of a union's mission to say "our members are the best and you should be working with/honoring them."

And while it is indeed their award and they can ultimately do what they wish, since Equity is involved in a fairly major way they can, and should, voice their objection (especially if the League and the Wing are going to claim people were at this meeting who weren't and try to imply that everyone who was there was in agreement with this).

I'll also add that I agree with Kelly. Just because you have been operating a long time doesn't mean you are producing excellent work. The Lost Colony is still employing the use of "red face" on their stage every summer. If the chairman of the American Theatre Wing was not also the production designer for this company (and also reportedly the one who suggested they receive it in the first place) do we really think the League and the Wing would be giving them this award?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 10:01am

Well, I think that depends on who else KNOWS about it. (I know I've never heard of it before.)

I'm not making any judgement about whether the show is worthy or not OF an award.

[sparrman]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 10:25am

I'm a member of Equity, but AEA's opinion that "non-union = non-professional" has always been offensive to me. If you're getting paid for your job, you are a professional. Period.

[TheFirst5Years]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 10:46am

I've worked at The Lost Colony, and I feel the need to throw a few thoughts in here.

For the original poster; There are no horses used in the show. No animals at all, in fact. Save for the children. (Yes there are children, commonly cast from local families) You may be thinking of Tecumseh. I have a friend who fell from a horse there, but he finished his contract.

The Lost Colony, whether you've heard of it or not, is legit. It's not just "a pageant" or a little skit. There's a full plot, songs, and HOURS of rehearsals that run well into the early morning hours. The actors there WORK and they work HARD.

And as The Lost Colony has had a long and varied history, there are many MANY actors that got their start or worked there well after being established. Lynn Redgrave played the queen, Andy Griffith played Sir Walter Raleigh, and current TONY nominee Terrence Mann has not only been in the show (Old Tom) But he DIRECTED it for a number of years in the early 2000's It's not just small potatoes. There are connections to be made, and friendships to be valued. Some of my very best friends are from my summer spent there.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 11:04am

First five....why so very defensive? There was one or two people that said slightly negative things...but no one is paying them much mind.

I'm glad you had a wonderful experience, but the discussion is really about whether Equity has any right to put in their 2cents about what the Tony Committee wants.

Benhind the Scenes....what kind of freaking bee is in your bonnet about Ivey Long? Do you have any proof to back up your particularly vicious claim? (There may be, but I'm not aware of any ill will towards him.)

An honorary Tony is not going to do anything for any group except as a bragging point. I have never heard of people saying: gee, I wasn't going to see "x-show" at "xtheatre" until I heard they once got an honorary Tony. Most folks don't even KNOW an honorary Tony has been given unless:
A) They see it in the lobby
B) They are involved with the theater directly (someone that contributes with either donations or working there)

HECK, the Drama Bookstore has one, and I doubt its helped THEIR business. (I love the Drama Bookstore, btw.) It's a point of PRIDE that I doubt translates into dollars.

Updated On: 5/4/13 at 11:04 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 11:14am

Sardi's has one, as does the NEA, and several assorted business people, theater owners, philanthropists, performers- it's a diverse mix and the only common thread is being noteworthy in American theatre.

The award isn't being taken away from an Equity company- Equity regional theaters get their own honorary Tony category anyway.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 11:43am

Well, Sardi's probably employs more Equity actors than most regional theatres.

[winston89]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 12:22pm

AEA AGMA SM,

I get what you're saying about how Equity feels that they are the best and only the best should work for them. However, I honestly take issue with how they choose to do things. I have friends who are actors who are not sure if they want to join Equity or not. Reason being is that if they stayed in New York, there are equity jobs galore. However, they aren't sure if they want to stay here or not and know that there are more non Equity jobs outside of major cities than there are Equity jobs. I feel that if Equity wanted more members they would make Equity work more available through out the rest of the country as well in order to encourage more people to join and to give them a reason for joining.


ETA: Also, I get what you're saying about this show not getting an award if a member of the creative team wasn't part of the American Theatre Wing. However, I feel that the bulk of the Tony Awards are politics anyways.

And lastly, I know that you feel that just because something is long running doesn't mean it's great work. Hell, I think Cats the Devil's gift to theatre, but it was a long runner and won a Tony too. But, others may feel differently. Another example, Phantom. Some people think that it is a beautiful show, others disagree.

Updated On: 5/4/13 at 12:22 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 12:24pm

I'm generally pro-Equity, but in this case the dissent is petty. It's the Tony's miscellaneous honor award- for people and organizations that don't fit into its other honor categories. If they were awarding Lost Colony the Regional Theatre award, I could understand. But they're not. They've given this to a restaurant and bookstore.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 12:29pm

Trust me, Equity is not the best. You can walk into any restaurant in NYC and throw a fork and hit an Equity member who hasn't worked in over a year or two.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 12:31pm

"I feel that if Equity wanted more members they would make Equity work more available through out the rest of the country as well in order to encourage more people to join and to give them a reason for joining."

There are a number of contracts that producers could utilize if they wanted to hire Equity actors, starting with Special Appearance, Guest Artist, SPT (Small Professional Theatre). In addition Equity will often be willing to work out what is called a Letter of Agreement that will reference a certain contract with additional dispensations that it negotiates with an individual producer/company. The union does actively campaign to get more theatres across the country under a contract with them, and in some cases it is individual company members who have organized and approached Equity to ask them to campaign on their behalf to producers. It's not as if Equity is denying these companies the option to sign their actors to a union contract. In many cases it is the exact opposite.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 12:34pm

"Trust me, Equity is not the best. You can walk into any restaurant in NYC and throw a fork and hit an Equity member who hasn't worked in over a year or two."

And I can hit just as many non-Equity members who are in the same position. I'm not sure what that argument has to do with anything other than that the supply of actors (both union and non) far exceeds the demand.

[morosco]

Posted: 5/4/13 at 12:35pm

My aunt was bit by a snake when she went to Lost Colony. If you go you also should check for ticks before you get back in your car.