Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:53pm
"Well it doesn’t work. You people need to realise that this small world is not how everyone thinks..."
Oh. There it is.
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:00pm
KJisgroovy said: "Given the most recent response, I'm unsure if Binau is doing it on purpose or is just genuinely unaware that they're reciting American conservative talking points."
Ok but the problem I have is I’m not reciting things conservatives tell me I’m telling you what I am observing with my own eyes. When I see left wing publications with my own eyes saying that the Hamas attacks were justified (which is illegal to say in the UK anyway), when I see Claudine gay literally not be able to say calling for the genocide for Jews is against their policies (this is not paraphrased in a trick to suggest that ‘from the river to the sea’ is genocide she literally was asked directly if calling for the genocide)…when I see the BBC report on Jewish hates crimes motivated by Israel etc. these are what I’m seeing by my own eyes directly. The conflation of Israel with Jews appears to be having dangerous effects. Are you telling me none of the above is real?
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:04pm
KJisgroovy said: "Given the most recent response, I'm unsure if Binau is doing it on purpose or is just genuinely unaware that they're reciting American conservative talking points."
I'm leaning toward the former, but the latter would simply indicate why someone who is not American has no business lecturing those who are about American culture and politics. As has been expressed to them multiple times by now.
KJisgroovy said: "binau said: "Well it doesn’t work. You people need to realise that this small world is not how everyone thinks..."
Oh. There it is."
Yep. Exactly.
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:06pm
KJisgroovy said: ""Well it doesn’t work. You people need to realise that this small world is not how everyone thinks..."
Oh. There it is.
"
Come on. Stop it. By you people I mean the group of people here who obviously appear to be in a very very left wing New York ideological echo chamber that does not like being challenged. I don’t even consider myself conservative or right wing (indeed it was ME to much criticism on this forum in 2015 advocating for Bernie sanders and suggesting Hillary might lose to trump) but attitudes have changed so much over the last 5-10 years that it seems like unless you are part of this strange new ideological religion you are immediately dismissed as insert pejorative.
Look at this thread, all I’ve tried to do is point out the obvious antisemitism coming from some of the left right now, and trying to get some common sense that Elon musk is not a Nazi and you’re all turning into a pack of vicious wolves. This is madness. You need to all calm down please.
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:15pm
binau said: "
Look at this thread, all I’ve tried to do is point out the obvious antisemitism coming from some of the left right now, and trying to get some common sense that Elon musk is not a Nazi and you’re all turning into a pack of vicious wolves. This is madness. You need to all calm down please."
Musk is not a Nazi? In which universe? You aren't getting a free Tesla by licking his boots on here.
Updated On: 1/24/25 at 01:15 PM
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:16pm
I'm telling that your read on the situation is being informed by propaganda and not reality.
"when I see Claudine gay literally not be able to say calling for the genocide for Jews is against their policies" What you witnessed was a woman telling the truth. That WAS the policy of Harvard. She answered truthfully. Would you have preferred she lie? Elise Stefanik knew that was the policy of Harvard at the time and phrased the question that way to get the answer she wanted to make a political point. In fact Claudine Gay aggressively tried to clarify that she, herself, found the language abhorrent but that's not what Stefanik wanted to hear so that was not the soundbyte. Weird and interesting you mention Gay's name but don't mention that she very clearly clarified that she herself found that kind of speech was abhorrent. This is why people are telling you that you are reciting political talking points.
At the time was it against Harvard policy to call for the genocide of the Pakistani people? Floridians? People named Mike? You don't have to google it I can confirm there was no carveout for Jewish people. There was no rule that said you can't call for the genocide of any group EXCEPT Jewish people.
It's also interesting that you think folks who share their beliefs about Israel on university campuses should be silenced and punished but are really upset that "ideology" tries to silence and censor people you agree with but SHOULD silence people who speak out against things you don't like. You have no issue with all the holocaust puns Musk has been posting since his "controversial gesture"?
Interesting that you are comfortable with deciding what is and is not anti-semtism. How do you address all the Jewish people that are arguing Israel needs to take some responsibility for the situation in Gaza? Those Jewish folk are just violently anti-semetic against... themselves? You reference onservative Americans support of Israel... What about the fact that many conservative folks in America support Israel because... 80% of evangelical Christians believe that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that would bring about Christ's return and more than 50% of Evangelical Christians believed that they support Israel because it is important for fulfilling the prophecy... and that the end of that prophecy results in all the Jewish people dying and burning in hell. Making their support actually violently anti-semetic at its core?
Updated On: 1/24/25 at 01:16 PM
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:27pm
gibsons2 said: "binau said: "
Look at this thread, all I’ve tried to do is point out the obvious antisemitism coming from some of the left right now, and trying to get some common sense that Elon musk is not a Nazi and you’re all turning into a pack of vicious wolves. This is madness. You need to all calm down please."
Musk is not a Nazi? In whose universe? You aren't getting a free Tesla by licking his boots on here."
The fact that binau believes the person gleefully doing Nazi salutes and not denying it isn't a Nazi says everything about how much common sense they have (none at all).
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:30pm
binau said: "
Look at this thread, all I’ve tried to do is point out the obvious antisemitism coming from some of the left right now, and trying to get some common sense that Elon musk is not a Nazi and you’re all turning into a pack of vicious wolves. This is madness. You need to all calm down please."
I got annoyed with you because you have a consistent need to stride into these very charged discussions and try to play centrist mediator taking a high-minded yet reductive tone while saying absolutely nothing insightful and being sometimes, frankly, blithely tactless while doing so. Whenever any argument over bigotry arises, there you are, with your "well actually" both-sideserism.
There's no quicker way to tick off all sides of a debate than doing what you're doing.
Updated On: 1/24/25 at 01:30 PM
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:32pm
KJ, you say that I am unnuanced but I think you are being unnuanced because your post seems to suggest that I think any criticism of Israel is antisemitic. There are a range of attitudes towards the criticism Israel on this topic, some of which I do not think reflect Jew hatred (eg having issues with the death toll in Gaza) and some of which I think do reflect Jew hatred (eg believing Hamas attack was justified). No one should be silenced for criticising Israel and the actions of that government. I don’t even claim this. I also think you’d appreciate that there are also a range of different attitudes towards this issue in the Jewish community too, it’s a hot issue. It’s like because you have heard me bring up what I think are sincere and important criticisms of progressives you have falsely assumed I think any criticism of Israel is antisemitism. Can we also not lose sight of my overall claim, my overall claim is that SOME progressives are perpetuating Jew hatred by expressing ideas that cause people to conflate Israel with Jews. It doesn’t mean all, it doesn’t even mean most. But my claim is it’s there. If you are saying it’s NONE - fine, I disagree but fine. I would be surprised if you think it’s none or not a problem at all. My other claim is that Elon musk is not a Nazi. That is literally it! If you don’t agree, I accept that.
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:32pm
How much longer until this dumpster fire of a thread gets closed down?
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:39pm
Perhaps people are calling him a Nazi because he’s supporting actual (neo) Nazis.
https://www.npr.org/2025/01/10/nx-s1-5252473/elon-musk-germany-election-afd-candidate-alice-weidel
Anyway, this thread has derailed. I haven’t seen the current production, but I saw the roundabout version numerous times. On almost every occasion, at least one person audibly laughed after the line. It was definitely not a whole or even half the audience thing, though. However, the awkward silence that followed definitely seemed to make the folks who laughed feel uncomfortable.
Updated On: 1/24/25 at 01:39 PM
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:43pm
I would suggest you listen to the full interview so you can hear what policies he supports in more detail. It’s more complex than what you’re suggesting.
Posted: 1/24/25 at 1:44pm
You seem very confident in your beliefs and don't seem to feel like you have to engage with dissenting opinions. That's ok! I was really interested in responses to my questions and what other folks have said but we should probably move on since JSquared thinks this is a dumpster fire. Ironically... the first person to actually suggest silencing and censorship.
Posted: 1/24/25 at 5:04pm
this is a dumpster fire thread, and i agree disagree with alot of what everyones saying but
whats so insidious and crazy is that the anti semites on the right (who are represented in govt) and the anti semites on the left (who are largely not) are both so insistent that they are NOT anti semitic, and simply spend all their time pointing out the hatred on the other side. its simply so harmful and unfair to Jews to be caught in the middle of these groups--one side proclaiming they cant possibly be antisemitic because they support israel, and the other pretending that healthy, acceptable, necessary criticism of israel does not often devolve into scapegoating, and irrational hatred.
it makes me want to scream--and im not even directly impacted by any of it.
good for adam lambert (himself a loud critic of israel) for staring this indifference straight in the eye.
Posted: 1/25/25 at 5:22am
"Whenever any argument over bigotry arises, there you are, with your "well actually" both-sideserism."
Yes exactly - and I'd go further and suggest that the problem is, which many of you can't see, is that you are also the bigots. And that is why it is so scandalous that the progressive movement has been hijacked and is being destroyed by this bigotry.
It's through bigotry that Cynthia Erivo and others caused the closing of The Great Comet, putting many people of colour out of work because they did not have the common sense to understand that Broadway is a business and it's about the financial outcomes NOT the colour of skin that was the critical decision making factor in replacing Oak. This was ridiculous.
It's through bigotry that people here were (unsuccessfully) trying to boycott Sunset Boulevard because Nicole S might have voted for Trump - instead of looking in a mirror at why people voted in this shocking election outcome and trying to re-organise you go after those that expressed their democratic right and try to destroy them. This is unacceptable.
It's through bigotry that people looked at the colour of Patti LuPone's skin and decided that she was not able to comment on the objectively loud sound levels of a show sharing the wall without being accused of 'racial microaggressions' (and then when I asked the people defending this behaviour here how can Patti LuPone comment on the objective levels WITHOUT being accused of racist behaviour I was told she can't. That is dumb.
It's through bigotry that progressive movements have demonised 'straight white men' at a group level, causing many of them (including in Gen Z, reversing some of the age-related trends) right now to flock to ring wing role models and parties at greater numbers than I ever thought would happen.
It's through bigotry that progressive movements have decided, arrogantly, that much of the speech they disagree with is misinformation or hate speech and have caused people to censor, self-censor or in a government context asked social media platforms to censor true information (Mark Zuckerberg claims Biden administration asked them to censor true information, and described it as very '1984like'
.
It's through bigotry that instead of empathising with some of the common sense arguments about trans issues you double down, scream and shout with no compromise pushing people away and causing people to turn against the very cause you are trying to support, putting trans people at risk.
And it's through bigotry that anyone would suggest the Hamas attacks on October the 7th were in any way justified. There is no justification for the deliberate and intentional killing of people BECAUSE they are Jewish, which is exactly what Hamas did and does.
Up until recently, it has been annoying or subtly destructive, but now it is gone so far that is destroying our societies, either directly through the negative outcomes of this behaviour or indirectly because the backlash against this absurdity is so strong that it is causing a rise of right wing attitudes and political parties across the world.
You can continue to keep doing what you are doing, but if you do my prediction is that it will continue to push people away, to cause division, to cause racial tension, to destroy communities and eventually to make us all miserable and poorer as a result.
I think this will be solved if the progressive movement stops getting hijacked by hysterical extreme ideological people who have turned it into a thoughtless ideological religion and is replaced with strong adult leadership who know where to draw the line, where to compromise, to more precisely be able to know when to use extreme epithets and when to not, to know how to bring people together instead of push them away. Enough is enough - Trump winning this election including the popular vote (which was highly unexpected and shocking) should be enough feedback that the ideology, this religion, is not working - it's hurting the very people you are trying to protect.
I know I’m not perfect, I will make mistakes and I’m trying to watch my own biases too so I don’t do the exact thing I’m trying to avoid which is become extremely ideological - so I actually appreciate when people challenge me if they do so in a way that isn’t childish name calling. I don’t want to pretend I have all the answers all the time either as I recognise my tone might suggest. 
Updated On: 1/25/25 at 05:22 AM
Posted: 1/25/25 at 10:01am
Back to topic. It kind surprises me how many people can sit through the show up to this point and not grasp the severity of the moment, or at least pause at that moment before laughing. People really are getting dumber.
That said...I've seen this production twice, in London and New York, and aside from a few light chuckles, I never saw this loud type of reaction to the line. And based on Reddit, most people that have seen this production with different actors have not experienced it either. So I have to wonder how much of this is on Adam and how he's being directed. This constant type of character-breaking ad-libbing is criminal so there needs to be some modification done with the direction and performance to work this out.
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