Adam Lambert Cabaret 1/22 Matinee Audience Behavior- Page 2

[Theatrefan2]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 1:04pm

People are either in denial, or wilfully ignorant if they think a lot of antisemitism isn't coming from certain groups of the left. While being Jewish, and isreal, are two different things, that doesn't stop people from equating them as the same and targeting them all as one in the same.

The left is equally as capable of being dangerously idiotic, just like the MAGA crowd. Some parts of the left have gone so far left they are becoming right wing.

[Kad]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 2:30pm

You know, as a Jew, I just love being treated like a hot potato being bounced around in debates of which side of the political spectrum hates me more.

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 2:33pm

Kad said: "You know, as a Jew, I just love being treated like a hot potato being bounced around in debates of which side of the political spectrum hates me more."


Well, I love you.

[LucyEth]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 3:28pm

I was in the audience for a performance of "The Buddy Holly Story" the night the Supreme Court repealed Roe v. Wade.  When the actor playing Buddy came out for the final big concert, he brought a sign that read "Abortion is Healthcare."  Apparently he'd corralled the cast into "making a statement."  Needless to say, not something that would have ever happened in 1959.  The audience and management were not happy, to say the least.  This is what your social media platforms are for, people, leave your personal feelings off the stage!

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 3:47pm

I mean... in the context of Cabaret nothing Adam said doesn't make sense. This isn't like they did it during a performance of Sunset Blvd...

Updated On: 1/23/25 at 03:47 PM

[LucyEth]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 4:04pm

TheatreFan4, I respectfully disagree.  Given the political climate at the time of the original show, the Emcee would actually expect his audience to laugh at the joke.  And they would.  That's what makes it so chilling.  To step out of character and tell the audience (which is ostensibly the Kit Kat Club audience) not to laugh is absurd.  I wonder if more would be achieved if a modern Emcee were to laugh with the assholes in the audience, in a sense aping them to try to get them to see how ugly they are.  

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 5:45pm

Theatrefan2 said: "People are either in denial, or wilfully ignorant if they think a lot of antisemitism isn't coming from certain groups of the left. While being Jewish, and isreal, are two different things, that doesn't stop people from equating them as the same and targeting them all as one in the same.

The left is equally as capable of being dangerously idiotic, just like the MAGA crowd. Some parts of the left have gone so far left they are becoming right wing."

Sure thing, hun. Keep telling yourself that. 

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 6:25pm

Worth not

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 6:31pm

Worth noting that the last Trump administration was very pro-Israel and yet we saw a stark rise in anti-Semitism. Also, the Elon thing is straight out of their playbook: do something that sure as hell looks like a bad thing, say it isn't a bad thing, reap all the benefits from people who support the bad thing without ever distancing yourself from them and score points by "owning" the people who are reacting negatively to the bad thing by pointing out how sensitive they are. This happened over and over last time, too. Judging by this small sample size, looks like it's already working on some people. 

[BentleyB]

Posted: 1/23/25 at 10:54pm

We saw it last Thursday.  Unfortunately Adam was out.  I have seen so many productions of Cabaret over the years but was somewhat shocked when some people did laugh at the end of the song.  We had a friends young son with us who had never seen Cabaret.  It bothered me so much that after the show I asked him if he understood the point and he said absolutely, but didn’t understand why I was upset with the laughter. Could it be an age thing?  I don’t know, but I found it so distasteful.

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:56am

I wonder how many of them were laughing at the “joke” and how many of them were laughing out of discomfort. It feels like there’s a growing number of people who cannot simply be silent and sit with the uncomfortable moments when a piece of art challenges them. They’re compelled to break the tension and distance themselves from the feeling, so they laugh awkwardly. I find it highly annoying, but it seems more and more common.

[binau]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 4:06am

Kad said: "You know, as a Jew, I just love being treated like a hot potato being bounced around in debates of which side of the political spectrum hates me more."

I think it’s important to highlight the issue though and not pretend it doesn’t exist, although I recognise it must be annoying or sometimes scary to see. A lot of right wing people seem to hate Jews because they don’t fit the image of ‘white culture’ (whatever that is). A lot of left wing people seem to hate Jews because of what Israel is doing and because they also consider them to be ‘privileged white people’ (even though ironically right wing racists don’t see them that way). Jews seem to be the target of hate if they are poor, if they are rich. It’s like people find any reason they can to hate Jews. It crosses ideological perspectives and demographics. It’s terrible. I know everyone loves to say their art is important but I do think Cabaret is important and ‘if you could see her’ today to try and highlight this absurdity. 

Updated On: 1/24/25 at 04:06 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 9:31am

If anybody is acutely aware of antisemitism, it’s Jews. We don’t need to be discussed as if we aren’t here and aren’t aware of it. We know. 

[binau]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 9:49am

This is an anonymous forum, it’s impossible to tell someone’s ethnicity unless they tell us. Otherwise, all people can do is discuss the issues as they see them? I don’t really get the specific action. Not discuss it at all and be quiet? (I’m not going to do this personally). Address it to specific groups such as non-Jews? Surely you can see that it’s impossible to succeed here because you can get criticised for pretending it doesn’t exist and now criticised for highlighting the issue. Can we not just interpret posts in good faith with the best intentions rather than go down this path of getting offended? 

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 11:12am

I think, at least for me, you're explaining the situation condescendingly and without nuance (and frankly to my mind, incorrectly). I think if you are Jewish and trying to talk to non-Jewish folk... your tone makes sense. But to a Jewish person, at least to me, it's annoying because it sounds like you're probably not Jewish. You have, a few times, conflated Jews and Israel which is annoying and incorrect. At least that's what's bothered me the most. I suppose, if you are Jewish (and you're right we couldn't possibly tel) that bothers me less... but to me that feels like an assumption a Jewish person would not make. All Jewish folk do not support Israel. Even many Jewish folk who DO support Israel do not support the Israel and their actions and do not think criticizing Israel is anti-semetic. 

[binau]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 11:35am

Are you taking to me? I have not tried to intentionally conflate Jews with Israel. I can see how some of the Elon Musk points might have some ambiguity around this. However, what I am suggesting is that currently a lot of people often do, and it is causing anti-Jewish hate crimes and attitudes across many western countries right now that are well documented. I am explaining the phenomena not endorsing it. 

Updated On: 1/24/25 at 11:35 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 11:40am

binau said: "This is an anonymous forum, it’s impossible to tell someone’s ethnicity unless they tell us.Otherwise, all people can do is discuss the issues as they see them? Idon’t really get the specific action. Not discuss it at all and be quiet? (I’m not going to do this personally). Address it to specific groups such as non-Jews? Surely you can see that it’s impossible to succeed here because you can get criticised for pretending it doesn’t exist and now criticised for highlighting the issue. Can we not just interpret posts in good faith with the best intentions rather than go down this path of getting offended?"

I've been here long enough that people know I am not someone to cry offense at every thing. I don't even think laughter at the end of "If You Could See Her" is necessarily driven by antisemitism.

However, this thread immediately became finger pointing at who is more antisemitic, with you helpfully stepping in to point out that, well, actually, a lot of people seem to hate Jews. That is not insightful or revelatory and even despite the wearisome Left v Right tack this thread promptly took, the fact that antisemitism is real and pervasive has never been in debate. You don't have a a unique overview on the situation and it's not some abstract discussion point for you to take a high-minded tone on. I'm not accusing you of anything except being remarkably tone deaf in how you've decided to weigh in.

[binau]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 11:49am

Yes because the problem was that the immediate claim was that the problem was ‘conservatives’ and I’m trying to reinforce the point as others have too that it is not just conservatives causing these problems.

And I know I cause a lot of friction when these kinds of topics come up on this forum and it’s because - which has culminated in the unfortunate outcome of Donald Trump winning the presidency - that I’m sick of watching the hypocrisy and self-destruction of progressive movements that is ruining it for everyone and being exported to cultures around the world. I know I’m annoying, but I sincerely want to continue being this counter force on this forum where I see necessary because I sense this forum is a haven of very ideologically similar people at times depending on the topic don’t seem to want to accept any criticism, common sense* or compromise. This doesn’t work anymore and it’s quite striking to see right-wing attitudes spreading across the western world as a result. My ultimate goal is to try and bring balance to the conversation so that people can take a more centrist approach - and I completely understand if I am annoying or wrong or come across as condescending (I don’t mean to be and I always to provide the rationale of my points so it’s an actual discussion). But I have good intentions, at least the way I see it. 

* an example being the ridiculous assertion that Elon Musk is now a literal Nazi. This is mass psychosis conspiracy in my opinion, which appears to be a common thought on this forum based on the number of likes reinforcing the idea that he is indeed a Nazi.
 

 

 

Updated On: 1/24/25 at 11:49 AM

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:17pm

"My ultimate goal is to try and bring balance to the conversation so that people can take a more centrist approach"

Except that you've adopted talking points that are not true and continue to push them. By reducing the nuance of the situation, you're actually furthering the division that you seem genuinely trying to reduce. You introduce straw-man talking points as an attempt to say "See! It's both sides" when what you're saying about "progressives" is either lacking nuance to the point of propaganda OR missing the point of what's actually being said. 

I do not think this is intentional and I genuinely think you're trying your best and have good intentions. 

[binau]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:27pm

Ok but you then need to get into the weeds of the actual argument or it’s impossible to know where this supposed lack of nuance or talking points are. I don’t believe the claim I made about a proportion of people, many of them progressives, who conflate Israel with Jews and the consequence is hate crimes is untrue or unnuanced. Is this the problem? I literally have seen left wing propaganda in the streets of London saying that Hamas attacks were justified (published by the ‘socialist party&rsquo. People have been arrested for trying to burn down synagogues in the UK. Look at the videos of how many Jews are being treated on college campuses. We had a Harvard president say on camera without even flinching that calling for the genocide of Jews does not necessarily contradict Harvard policies of bullying and harassment. None of this hate is coming from conservatives, it’s mostly coming from progressives and certain demographics and never in my life did I ever think I’d see the same people championing progressive values also say that they think Hamas had the right to kill innocent Jews. So far left they’ve swung right is an adequate description of what I see going on. 

Updated On: 1/24/25 at 12:27 PM

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:43pm

KJisgroovy said: ""My ultimate goal is to try and bring balance to the conversation so that people can take a more centrist approach"

Except that you've adopted talking points that are not true and continue to push them. By reducing the nuance of the situation, you're actually furthering the division that you seem genuinely trying to reduce. You introduce straw-man talking points as an attempt to say "See! It's both sides" when what you're saying about "progressives" is either lacking nuance to the point of propaganda OR missing the point of what's actually being said.

I do not think this is intentional and I genuinely think you're trying your best and have good intentions."

At this point, I believe it is intentional. They pulled the same thing in the Gypsy and Sunset Blvd. threads. They're constantly bringing in right-wing talking points for "balance." If one's good intentions require spreading misinformation and lies, their intentions are actually bad. 

[saxpower]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:47pm

Maybe I'm misinterpting, but I always saw the line at the end of "If You Could See Her" as noting things were so twisted in Germany at that point if a person were dating a Jewish Gorilla, people would be more scandalized by the fact she's Jewish than the fact the person is dating a Gorilla. 

 

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:47pm

Given the most recent response, I'm unsure if Binau is doing it on purpose or is just genuinely unaware that they're reciting American conservative talking points. 

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:50pm

Kad said: "If a moment isn’t landing, I think it’s on the director to go back to the table and devise adjustments rather than let the actor ad-lib essentially out-of-character admonishmentsto the audience."

This.

[binau]

Posted: 1/24/25 at 12:50pm

This is what your ideology does though, it tries to shut down conversation and stop people speaking. By denouncing it as misinformation or racist. Instead of acting in good faith. Like this is how your ideology works - rather than engage in the argument it tries to silence, to suppress, to censor.

it’s why Elon Musk instead of a champion for the left is now demonised and accused of being a Nazi because your ideology has determined he is now public enemy #2. 

Well it doesn’t work. You people need to realise that this small world is not how everyone thinks - and it’s becoming more and more marginalised. If you don’t be reasonable, if you don’t listen or change your approach you will achieve nothing and even worse counterproductively cause your own cause to lose momentum.