Advice For Wildhorn

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:22pm

Write a show score under a different name. Hire a person to be you during all rehearsals & interviews. If the show opens to raves, spring the news on the critics & rest of the world & sit back & smile like the Cheshire cat.

Say Wildhorn to a critic & likes Pavlov's dog you will get a scathing criticque.

Updated On: 12/2/11 at 10:22 PM

[ChenoKahn]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:25pm

I think Bonnie & Clyde got worse reviews because it's a Wildhorn show but your acting like this has happened before. This is the first good show he has been a part of.

[broadwayfever]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:35pm

The critics have no idea what they are talking about...the score is freakin' amazing!

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:35pm

An opinion I and many do not share. We have differing opinions.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:38pm

Mr Roxy == if you AGREE with the reviews, what is the point of the thread? If you disagree, I don't understand your last post.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:41pm

I was referring to Chenos post

[dramamama611]

Posted: 12/2/11 at 10:46pm

Ah...thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense!

[N2Theater]

Posted: 12/3/11 at 2:41am

My advice is forget about Broadway , focus on Europe and Asia. Broadway will never embrace you.

[Nick Murphy]

Posted: 12/3/11 at 10:06pm

My advice: Find another profession.

[SamIAm2]

Posted: 12/3/11 at 10:35pm

My advice: Have faith in your work and hang in there; see how the audiences vote with their money and see what happens during awards season. This could very possibly be a major success yet.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/3/11 at 10:41pm

Fight back against some of the more vicious & obviously biased critics. What will they do - give him more bad reviews. He has turned the other cheek once to often.

[ChenoKahn]

Posted: 12/3/11 at 10:45pm

I do agree Wildhorn should stand up for himself this time though. The WSJ review sounded like he didn't have any good reason not to like the show so he trashed Wildhorn's other projects the entire review.

[dented146]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 1:46am

I strongly agree with Roxy that Wildhorn should stand up to some of his critics by name and question their integrity. He would suffer greatly both here and abroad but in this particular case, if word of mouth for Bonnie and Clyde continues to be good, he will be heard.

Making it as an artist is tough enough. You need talent and a thick skin simply because your work is based on subjective criteria. The artist is the last person who can afford to be the subject of a vendetta the " experts" who pass judgement.

A direct assault on their integrity is a cut to the bone.

[hyperbole_and_a_half]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 2:02am

I think I read somewhere that Sondheim and Lapine would collaborate thusly: Lapine would write a scene, and in the spots where he knew there should be song, he'd write monologues. Sondheim would musicalize those moments. I'm sure it was more organic than that, but that's the basic gist of what I remember.

Wildhorn needs to find someone who can help him write like this, because right now I'm certain he gets the basic idea for the show, writes 15-20 songs, and then hires a creative team to put the songs in order and patch the story in around them. He's essentially writing the music for his own jukebox musicals, and I think that's why critics hone in on how inauthentic his work is, and how disconnected it is from the book.

Also, he tends to substitute pastiche for character, and his lyricists are awful.

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 2:02am

A direct assault on their integrity is a cut to the bone.

Critics almost unanimously trashed the show and they write for completely different publications. I would understand your point if Broadway audiences reacted positively to his shows, but they don't. The fact is that his shows barely work at any level on Broadway - note that I'm not talking about their artistic merit, but their critical and financial success. After almost 7 financial flops in a row, producing his work on Broadway almost seems like an act of stubborness, why open Bonnie and Clyde so soon after Wonderland?

If he finds his work to be a hit somewhere else, that's already a big reward.

And if he was to attack every single reviewer who gave him a negative review the only integrity in question would be his. He would just pass as insane and bitter.

Updated On: 12/4/11 at 02:02 AM

[dented146]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 2:38am

blaxx, I only saw the La Jolla production two years ago. I did not like the first act but loved the second act. So I am basing my remarks on the fact that the overwhelming opinion on this board has been positive.

I said "if word of mouth remains strong' he should speak out. And I agree it will sound like sour grapes and bitterness. There also seems to be a general feeling that a bias exists with respect to Wildhorn

Maybe part of that bias is based on things like opening a new show a few weeks after a momumental flop. I agree that seems strange.

I feel it is a much more serious matter for Broadway that it's critics lack integrity and be biased than it is to write a bad musical.

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 2:54am

I understand, dented146. Although word of mouth needs to turn into revenue for him to consider speaking out. Otherwise, he'd have little to back up his point of view.

I think a lot of posters here really think that critics are out to get him, no matter what he does. But we have to consider these reviewers come from all over the spectrum. Thinking of an unspoken crusade of critics determined to bully a composer and his work seems overly dramatic and paranoid to me.

I could see Schwartz giving a few of them the finger after Wicked, but Wildhorn's record is just so bad critically and financially. No other composer in Broadway's history has a record of 7-0. It might not be my place to question these producers, but I really don't understand why they don't try a different approach with his work that is not Broadway.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 6:32am

Art isn't easy.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 12:25pm

No other composer in Broadway's history has a record of 7-0.

You mean critically (0-6) or financially (0-5)?

[philly03]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 1:11pm

Don't forget Frank also worked on Victor/Victoria, which I believe also flopped.

On Broadway the shows do not make money but they do around the globe (Bonnie & Clyde is going international in January!), and the album sales. Jekyll was very close to re-couping and did on one of the tours. The power of word of mouth... nearly a 4 year Broadway run, and there is now 4 major English recordings from the US alone (2 concepts, the OBCR and the Resurrection tour.. which focused on the music).

"After almost 7 financial flops in a row, producing his work on Broadway almost seems like an act of stubborness, why open Bonnie and Clyde so soon after Wonderland?"

With a certain revival in the works for the next year, I'm sure the idea was to do another hat trick... Which regardless of the financial situation, that was a huge deal.

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 2:26pm

Don't forget Frank also worked on Victor/Victoria, which I believe also flopped.

Yes, I counted Victor/Victoria. If Bonnie & Clyde flops, that is a record of 7 flops to no hits.

If he really is using Broadway as a start point to his international success, I don't get the fuzz about the poor reception of his shows this side of the pond.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 2:45pm

He wrote 3 or 4 songs for VV so how can it be counted as his show?

What he should do is sign up a major star ala Hugh Jackman to sign up to do a year for his next show.

That would be a big boost knowing he would have a fighting chance to weather bad reviews.If they started giving him good reviews now, it would call into question some reviews of his earlier works.

Amazing he is such a hit in Europe but bombs in NY. Either all of Europe is populated by idiots or,dare I say it, our esteemed critics just have a grudge against him. I think they are like the Crusaders in that they must save Broadway from the dreaded scourge known as Frank Wildhorn music.

Updated On: 12/4/11 at 02:45 PM

[Rabekriegerin]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 3:06pm

I do suspect the musical tastes of the Continent and the US skew in different directions. (Alas, I'm an American with an (apparently) European taste in musicals, haha.)

I'm just as glad Wildhorn continues to put his musicals on Broadway, though how he has the self-esteem to weather the criticism, I will never understand. I wouldn't be able to stand it. Still, it gives me the chance to see them before they vanish overseas. My European friends joke that we break them onto the world, they take them, fix them, and make them successful...

[ChenoKahn]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 6:06pm

I don't think any big star in their right minds would sign on to do a Wildhorn show with his record.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/4/11 at 6:11pm

You would be surprised what people will do when the right amount of money is waved in front of them.