BLACK NO MORE Musical premiering at the New Group in January 2022, with a buzzy creative team & cast- Page 5

[RUkiddingme]

Posted: 2/4/22 at 12:36am

This show is not ready for primetime!

The actors are doing their best but the material is so underdeveloped.  This is workshop quality.  maybe some experiences geniuses could make it all work, but good luck.

BVD does his normal heavy lifting.  Still waiting for him to get that brilliant original role he deserves.

Tamika Lawrence steals the show.  A real powerhouse.

The worst thing about the show is how often it reminds you of its inferiority.  There are moments where you almost want to say out loud "Hamilton did that better!"  "Passing Strange did that better!"  "Fairview did that better!"

And they could cut a dozen uses of the n word and there would still be too many.

 

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 2/7/22 at 1:58pm

Can anyone confirm that there's only one gunshot in the show? I read earlier that it takes place during a particular scene, but is it during the first or second act?

[kurtal]

Posted: 2/8/22 at 11:18pm

I'm glad this show exists -- I'd rather it swing and miss than not swing at all.

The good:

Tamika Lawrence.  Holy crap that woman is amazing.

The choreography.  I see other people thought it was overwrought...I really liked it.

Tariq's lyrics.

Several of the songs were fantastic.

The bad:

The book is a mess.  Characters had no motivation for what they were doing.  

The show doesn't know if it's high satire or earnest drama.  By trying to do both it fails at both.

The last 15 minutes are clunky AF

I really hope the creative team takes the feedback and support they need to help this show live up to its immense potential.

[joshdog2014]

Posted: 2/9/22 at 12:08am

TaffyDavenport said: "Can anyone confirm that there's only one gunshot in the show? I read earlier that it takes place during a particular scene, but is it during the first or second act?"

As far as I remember there’s only one. It’s very near the end of the second act

[JBroadway]

Posted: 2/9/22 at 12:32am

I saw the show tonight, and I agree with most of the sentiments already expressed in this thread, and I think the other users have articulated them perfectly.

I'm really glad exists, and glad i saw it. I liked what it was going for, and I thought it had some excellent components. But yeah, it's a mess. 

I agree about Lawrence being the standout (I almost want the show to transfer just so she can get a Tony for it), but also that BVD continues his tradition of being the anchor in whatever production he's in -- while also getting to play a different kind of character than he usually does. 

I agree that some performers handled to rap better than others, and ironically I thought Trotter himself seemed to have difficulty rapping in a way that felt like dramatized, character-driven text. His acting left a lot to be desired, I thought. 

I also agree the depiction of the KKK-type organization is so cartoonish and buffoonish that it serves to disarm them more than unveil them. 

I was also a bit frustrated that the music-direction, casting, and direction felt like a very "polished musical theatre" style. It lacked the raw energy, and the sense of character, to do justice to the source material, and to Trotter's stylistic vision. 

But I think @kurtal really gets to the core of this show's issues:

kurtal said: "The show doesn't know if it's high satire or earnest drama. By trying to do both it fails at both."  

This, to me, is the show's biggest, and most fundamental issue. The attempts at giving the characters a fleshed out inner life are admirable, but it always feels like this effort is fighting against the satirical, high-concept premise. Again, I think a more creative director could've really found that through-line. 

But overall, I found the show pretty fascinating, and I'd definitely say I liked it more than I disliked it.

Updated On: 2/9/22 at 12:32 AM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 2/9/22 at 2:48am

I had to stay away from this thread after the first posts so I could form my own opinion of the show. Time to finally respond to everything.

I do not think this is like Hamilton at all. If anything, it's like Chicago with a dash of Little Shop of Horrors (mainly because of the strong Faust influence). The brand of satire has strong Kander & Ebb energy.

I don't think the show is too long but it does still have some pacing issues. 

I thought the choreography and costumes were a huge selling point. The choreography is so purposeful and expressive I think it actually covers weaknesses in the direction and staging. And the costumes are so wonderfully designed and flattering to the entire cast... I cannot remember the last time I saw so many different body types costumed so effectively. Lillias in those beautiful gowns was perfection every time she opened her mouth to sing.

Agreed on the basic set and great lighting.

The show would be stronger if they recast the part of Crookman with a more experienced actor. You need someone to really make a meal of that part.

I had some quibbles and there are things to trim but the weakest aspect of the show is Helen. The character's inclusion feels forced. I wanted her to be totally shallow and silly to feel more like a thin representation of an ingenue ideal or else more impassioned and earnest and actively progressive to be an incisive indictment of white feminism. Also, her songs were bad, especially the solo. Nothing in the lyrics convinced me that Trotter actually empathized with her character. 

I don't know if we were supposed to feel a romantic connection at the end between

 

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Buni and Agamemnon or if that was supposed to be a more symbolic partnership of what she represented (love/community) and what he represented (academic activism) coming together to raise Max and Helen's child. That question of whether things were supposed to be compelling on a character level or whether they were supposed to be understood as parable/morality tale was also an issue with Max and Helen. If they're going to make that genuine instalove, they need a better romantic duet and stronger chemistry. They felt like characters who needed to be abandoned at the end for their flaws/bad choices rather than tragic and sympathetic figures. 

There has been some criticism of the "What's a Brother/Sister to do" songs but I thought it was an excellent moment where the show made use of its inclusive cast. It doesn't do so perfectly but this show does feel like it's in communication with a wider audience in the way it acknowledges women, GNC people, and the way everyone who isn't a straight white man can be scapegoated. 

And count me in for thinking the Knights of Nordica get as much respect as they deserve. They didn't feel cliched or cartoonish in any way that wasn't truthful. I still found them menacing. I don't think showing them as easily conned by a charlatan telling them what they wanted to hear or smug and blatant in their simplistic views of race and power made them buffoonish. There's an argument to be made about Ashby but... people love Succession.

Warning: There is a strobe lighting effect. I think it was only used for two relatively brief moments. 

There is excitement in sitting up front but I would sit at least a few rows back to fully appreciate the choreography. Also, if you're right in front you will be craning your neck a lot when any of the taller actors (Brandon Victor Dixon, Howard McGillin, etc. are standing at the front of the stage). 

I really hope they record this whether or not it transfers. The score hits so many different genres in a thrilling way not to mention the incredible vocals from so many of the actors. 

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 2/9/22 at 12:57pm

joshdog2014 said: "TaffyDavenport said: "Can anyone confirm that there's only one gunshot in the show? I read earlier that it takes place during a particular scene, but is it during the first or second act?"

As far as I remember there’s only one. It’s very near the end of the second act"

Thanks, I appreciate it!

[Alex M]

Posted: 2/9/22 at 5:17pm

Random thought I had after the show: The role of Dr Crookman lends itself very well to known actors or rappers as a stunt cast. I can easily see Daveed Diggs, James Monroe Iglehart, or even someone bigger like CeeLo Green or Childish playing this role. With Tariq Trotter being a producer I could easily see him getting some of these large broadway and non broadway names to replace him when the time comes. 

[Tkristop]

Posted: 2/12/22 at 11:46pm

Saw this today and liked it. It does need some work - especially pacing and some music changes. Cast is great. So much potential I hope it gets to transfer!

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/13/22 at 7:40pm

I thought this was a sure bet for Broadway. I drank the “Jeffrey Seller is producing, it can’t bee too bad” kool-aide. But lordy, this is a mess.

The satire is too bleak for Broadway audiences, and it seems like the type of show that will alienate ticketbuyers of ALL races. (Obviously the wealthy white audience is imperative for sustainable ticket sales on Bway.)

If I had Jeffrey Seller & Scott Elliott’s ears:

1. The music is not very engaging, and with four cooks in the music kitchen it may *never* be good enough. So all this might be a lost cause. There are a few highlights, but the score is just sort of...there.

2. Cut Ephraim Sykes’ entire part. Trim Lillias’s role or give it some more purpose. Give us a better intro for Tamika Lawrence.

3. Damiano’s role is so on-the-nose. It’s like the worst example of “all-male creative team tries to give the female character agency.” But also, there’s an inherent problem in this being a shotgun marriage because it means your leading romantic couple doesn’t know anything about each other…and never try to get to know each other? BVD getting caught in lies about his own backstory (instead of about his feelings about Black people) might make this interesting.

4. Black Thought needs to be recast. He clearly isn’t having fun performing this, and his role isn’t very interesting. It might allow him to focus more on the score, too. The part needs JM Iglehart or Andre De Shields or Kingsley Leggs or Wayne Brady or Eddie Cooper or Tituss Burgess who can serve as both villain and interlocutor and be incredibly charismatic.

5. The black-and-dark-gray set is going for “edgy,” but it makes everything look drab and colorless.

If they actually want to bring this to Broadway, work on it for a year or two, do some readings, then come to Bway when it’s good and ready. But right now it’s just a colossal waste of time and talent.

It actually made me wonder if Jordan Peele is a fan of the source material, because GET OUT is sort of a reversed version of this. I wish this had half the brilliance of GET OUT.

Updated On: 2/13/22 at 07:40 PM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 2/13/22 at 11:52pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "

2. Cut Ephraim Sykes’ entire part. Trim Lillias’s role or give it some more purpose. Give us a better intro for Tamika Lawrence.

I think both roles serve a purpose and you can't just (for example) mush Sisseretta and Buni into one role. It's okay to have tertiary characters that serve a non-narrative purpose. 

3. Damiano’s role is so on-the-nose. It’s like the worst example of “all-male creative team tries to give the female character agency.” 

I disagree that the flaw is failing to give her agency. I'd compare it to Rose in Caroline, or Change. You can represent the character with empathy and also deal honestly with the ways in which the character is flawed or makes mistakes. Or you can make the character a villain. They're in a middle ground right now. Even with the nonsense of the shotgun wedding, the rushed timeline could work if they would commit to showing Helen as sympathetically naive or indict her as falsely progressive. 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 2/14/22 at 12:11am

VintageSnarker said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "

3. Damiano’s role is so on-the-nose. It’s like the worst example of “all-male creative team tries to give the female character agency.”

I disagree that the flaw is failing to give her agency. I'd compare it to Rose in Caroline, or Change. You can represent the character with empathy and also deal honestly with the ways in which the character is flawed or makes mistakes. Or you can make the character a villain. They're in a middle ground right now. Even with the nonsense of the shotgun wedding, the rushed timeline could work if they would commit to showing Helen as sympathetically naive or indict her as falsely progressive."

 

I think you might have misunderstood Ermengarde's point

(or maybe I did - correct me if I'm wrong, Ermengarde!) 

I don't think Ermendgarde was talking about whether the character was a villain or not, nor were they necessarily saying that the writers failed to give the character agency in terms of the plot mechanics.

The problem was that her lyrics/dialogues were poorly written. They were a bunch of simplistic, obvious soap-box statements about "they don't understand me" "I'm hiding who I really am!" "I am woman, hear me roar!" Hitting us over the head with the same few basic character traits. And I think what Ermendgarde was saying that it came across like a bunch of male writers who were trying to give the character a "voice" or "agnecy," But they didn't really know how to make her sound like a human person with 3-dimension thoughts, so they just had her spew out the cliff-notes of her own character, and a bunch of broad, obvious sentiments about feminism. 

The character was too flat to feel human, but not enough of a caricature to be an effective satire of white feminism (despite the one scene where Buni addresses Helen's subconscious racism).

Updated On: 2/14/22 at 12:11 AM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/14/22 at 12:42am

yes, JBroadway put it very eloquently! 100%.

And while I wholly agree that tertiary characters are fine in a musical, it's not fine when there's a sprawling story, they are overcomplicating it, and the time could be better used for other characters/storylines. Which is how I felt about the Sykes role. 

In general, the "back in Harlem" chunks are weaker and every time they jump back to Harlem they're trying to cover a lot of ground. Those elements could have some of the most modern potency because it's a gentrification allegory, but as of right now it's not adding a ton to the story, and the writing doesn't support the story well enough.

Some of this stuff would "go down smoother" in a film (where a shot of white people walking through Harlem can save you 5 minutes of exposition) or in a megamusical-style show on the scale of RAGTIME or LES MIS where you can have 12 Black ensemble and 12 white ensemble and more literal locations.

To offer some praise: the main story beats are all clear/obvious. Everything else is muddy.

Updated On: 2/14/22 at 12:42 AM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 2/14/22 at 4:22am

JBroadway said: "The problem was that her lyrics/dialogues were poorly written. They were a bunch of simplistic, obvious soap-box statements about "they don't understand me" "I'm hiding who I really am!" "I am woman, hear me roar!" Hitting us over the head with the same few basic character traits. And I think what Ermendgarde was saying that it came across like a bunch of male writers who were trying to give the character a "voice" or "agnecy," But they didn't really know how to make her sound like a human person with 3-dimension thoughts, so they just had her spew out the cliff-notes of her own character, and a bunch of broad, obvious sentiments about feminism.

The character was too flat to feel human, but not enough of a caricature to be an effective satire of white feminism (despite the one scene where Buni addresses Helen's subconscious racism)."

Yes, I agree with all of that but I was saying I don't think the problem comes from trying to give her agency. I think the lack of empathy for her character and inability to make her sound like a three dimensional person came from not being able to decide whether to make her a caricature or a more earnest depiction of white feminism which would have more of a biting critique. Either make her a moron who really thinks her lyrics about being a blond Southern belle are deep (even Elle Woods had more self-awareness) or actually give her agency and make her a full person whose choices can be criticized. They get closest with her using the slur to diffuse her brother's anger at the club. Is she so stupid that she's truly going to chase after a guy she danced with once? Or is that memory just a fantasy she uses to sustain herself as she's trying to collect money and escape to a different life? An effective satire of white feminism would have mentioned how she loves jazz and sneaks feminist literature and Langston Hughes from the library... but she still does nothing for any cause and only acts in her own self-interest. Maybe she's not actively rude to the servants and doesn't attend the meetings but she's not willing to give up the comforts of her life to struggle. Those things could be further emphasized but the show actually doesn't seem to want to give her much agency and acknowledge the decisions she's making except in the confrontation with Buni.

I like the "back in Harlem" parts but I do think better pacing and direction could help them work better. I was happy to experience the show for what it was but I understand every audience member will not be so charitable, especially if they start charging Broadway prices. 

[EdwardSMaTeresa]

Posted: 2/14/22 at 5:31am

Directed by Scott Elliott with choreography by Tony winner Bill T. Jones, the production will feature the previously reported Tariq “Black Thought” Trotter of The Roots—who also composed the show—along with Brandon Victor Dixon (Hamilton, Power), Tony winner Lillias White (Chicago, The Life), Jennifer Damiano (Next to Normal), Tamika Lawrence (If/Then), Theo Stockman (American Psycho), Tracy Shayne (Bronx Bombers), Ephraim Sykes (Ain't Too Proud, Hamilton), and Tony winner Walter Bobbie (Chicago, Guys and Dolls).

Newly announced for the production are Leanne Antonio, Rhaamell Burke-Missouri, Elijah A. Carter, Ryan Fitzgerald, Polanco Jones Jr., Zachary Daniel Jones, Sarah Meahl, Mary Page Nance, Oneika Phillips, Nicholas Ranauro, Malaiyka Reid, Mars Rucker, Angela M. Sauers, Katie Thompson, Akron Watson, Nyla Watson, and Edward Watts.

The musical, originally announced for fall 2020, tells the story of Max Disher (Dixon), who’s eager to try the mysterious machine invented by Dr. Junius Crookman (Trotter) that guarantees to “solve the American race problem"—by turning Black people white.

Black No More features music and lyrics by Trotter and a book by John Ridley as well as music supervision, orchestrations, and vocal arrangements by Daryl Waters. The upcoming staging will also feature music direction and dance arrangements by Zane Mark, scenic design by Derek McLane, costume design by Qween Jean, lighting design by Jeff Croiter, sound design by Nevin Steinberg, wig and hair design by Nikiya Mathis, and casting by The Telsey Office's Rebecca shagle voojio Scholl and Kristian Charbonier.

[supersam1026]

Posted: 2/22/22 at 5:56pm

DELETE

Updated On: 2/23/22 at 05:56 PM

[Phillytheatreguy10]

Posted: 2/22/22 at 11:44pm

PM’d you.